Around the League 45: The Stanley Cup is in God's Waiting Room

[cptjeff]

1) The $64M was Neely's comment and the Agent publicly stated it was the first time they've heard that. I didn't follow it closely to know how that sugared out.

It came out that the offer had been $7.8m/yr. Not technically 8, but close enough that the agent (Lew Gross) was being more than a little dishonest with the outrage. And the Bruins probably fully expected him to respond to that offer with "can we just make it 8", which they would have then accepted. You may not trust management, but IMO it's pretty clear Neely was being more honest than Gross in this one.

The "resetting the goalie market" was another comment from Neely about what Swayman's ask had been. Remember, Gross is the guy behind the Nylander holdout and massive contract. He's extremely aggressive in his asks and extremely aggressive in his tactics. And I think he would have been happy to do that again, this reads to me like Swayman telling Gross to take what's on the table now in order to not miss the season.

As for fans siding with management, the interests of fans are aligned with management. better value contracts means more better players, which means better teams. It's a salary cap world where the quality of a roster *is* a zero sum game. And one player getting more means other players get less. And the overall pool of player money is fixed- if you want to root for the little guy, remember that the bigger contracts for stars get, the less is available for the role players who get paid a lot less and whose careers are a lot shorter.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It came out that the offer had been $7.8m/yr. Not technically 8, but close enough that the agent (Lew Gross) was being more than a little dishonest with the outrage. And the Bruins probably fully expected him to respond to that offer with "can we just make it 8", which they would have then accepted. You may not trust management, but IMO it's pretty clear Neely was being more honest than Gross in this one.

Thanks. So he ended up getting $400K per year more over 8 years so a total of $3.2M more? That's not insignificant and a pretty good bump vs the $7.8.

The "resetting the goalie market" was another comment from Neely about what Swayman's ask had been. Remember, Gross is the guy behind the Nylander holdout and massive contract. He's extremely aggressive in his asks and extremely aggressive in his tactics. And I think he would have been happy to do that again, this reads to me like Swayman telling Gross to take what's on the table now in order to not miss the season.

And Gross was right with Nylander. He was getting squeezed by the Leafs because they needed money for Tavares, Marner and Matthews. Nylander played on a discount and was better than two of those guys. I don't blame him.

As for fans siding with management, the interests of fans are aligned with management. better value contracts means more better players, which means better teams. It's a salary cap world where the quality of a roster *is* a zero sum game. And one player getting more means other players get less.

Oh, I understand WHY fans align with management. We are "team first, player 2nd" when it comes to our priorities so I'm not knocking it, I'm just stating that it skews our views toward these negitiations.

Player asks for a great deal: "He's GREEDY!"
GM signs a guy for a below market value: "Way to go! Great job"

And the overall pool of player money is fixed- if you want to root for the little guy, remember that the bigger contracts for stars get, the less is available for the role players who get paid a lot less and whose careers are a lot shorter.

It's not about rooting for the little guy. The little guy isn't driving revenue in the NHL, the stars are. Under no circumstances would I tell a star to take less so the little guy can make more.

 

[CandyCanes]

Toronto loading up on former Canes

 

[cptjeff]

Toronto loading up on former Canes

Really glad Lorentz got an NHL job. He's good enough to be useful and he's just a guy who's good to have around.

Was kinda hoping Patches would find his way to Columbus, but obviously he'd rather be with a contender.

 

[bleedgreen]

I still remember being completely convinced the canes were going to draft Monahan

I was pretty certain myself! He would’ve been a good Cane and he had a ton of qualities our previous two gm’s gravitated to.

 

[AD Skinner]

Apparently Boone Jenner is out indefinitely now too. Maybe they really will end up selling early

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I was pretty certain myself! He would’ve been a good Cane and he had a ton of qualities our previous two gm’s gravitated to.

IIRC, the talk at the time was that the Canes couldn't go wrong with either Lindholm or Monahan. Lindholm was more offensively gifted, while Monahan was seen as the better two–way player.

And yeah, given our franchise history, taking the two-way center seemed like the obvious choice.

 

[MinJaBen]

Apparently Boone Jenner is out indefinitely now too. Maybe they really will end up selling early

They will have some problems selling as they are pretty close to the floor. Won’t be just futures going back. Maybe that could be a good thing…

 

[chaz4hockey]

Really glad Lorentz got an NHL job. He's good enough to be useful and he's just a guy who's good to have around.

Was kinda hoping Patches would find his way to Columbus, but obviously he'd rather be with a contender.

Re: Lorentz--Agree, I'd add guys I know from the Everglades say he was a great teammate and superb person too.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Guentzel learning Tampa is not an ideal place to live when experiencing a Hurricane.

I hope everyone stays safe though as this one is particularly nasty, currently at 160mph. Geez at the strengthening in just 24 hours.

 

[WreckingCrew]

IIRC, the talk at the time was that the Canes couldn't go wrong with either Lindholm or Monahan. Lindholm was more offensively gifted, while Monahan was seen as the better two–way player.

And yeah, given our franchise history, taking the two-way center seemed like the obvious choice.

IIRC Lindy was also the "safer" pick with a higher floor and seen as being more NHL-ready at the time? Or is this just hindsight 20/20 Mandela effect I'm experiencing 11 years later?

 

[HisIceness]

As I remember it, JR and company really wanted Seth Jones. After Jones went 4th, JR worked the phones best he could. Having no offers of interest, he said to Francis, "we're taking your guy".

I also seem to recall that while it was best-case, Lindholm was getting comparables to Peter Forsberg

 

[To Be Determined]

Toronto loading up on former Canes

they also gave cade webber a 2 year elc.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Guentzel learning Tampa is not an ideal place to live when experiencing a Hurricane.

I hope everyone stays safe though as this one is particularly nasty, currently at 160mph. Geez at the strengthening in just 24 hours.

Yeah, it was a Category 2 at 7:00 this morning and is now a Category 5 at lunch.

 

[Svechhammer]

I’ve been curious about Monahan since the tragedy. That team is going to be horrible for a couple of more years, and it just isn’t what he signed up for. He’s still in his prime if he’s healthy and he’d be a pretty good fit for the 2C with us other than being lefty. I think this is a big embrace the suck year for them, maybe they’d move him.

He’s a character guy, I doubt he asks to leave.

I mean, maybe. I don't get the impression there is any real bad blood between Waddell and the Canes right now, so it could be a spot where, if Monahan isn't going to be with the Jackets, Waddell could move him to Carolina for a few of our prospects that he likes, knowing its a good organization to get his head back on straight.

At the same time, I could see Monahan dig in with Columbus to help lead the charge on the rebuild in honor of JG.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Yeah, it was a Category 2 at 7:00 this morning and is now a Category 5 at lunch.

now 175mph....un blanking believable.

Storm surge from Ian a few years ago destroyed peoples homes miles inland in Bonita Springs (that was near waterways) and anyone on the Coast of Collier County. I went down a week afterwards and there was debris piled high everywhere.

It's going to happen again.

 

[To Be Determined]

I'm pretty ignorant of the geography and storm track... i have family in dunedin. Are they screwed or ultra-screwed?

 

[raynman]

now 175mph....un blanking believable.

Storm surge from Ian a few years ago destroyed peoples homes miles inland in Bonita Springs (that was near waterways) and anyone on the Coast of Collier County. I went down a week afterwards and there was debris piled high everywhere.

It's going to happen again.

I have an uncle in Sarasota who never leaves. He’s told my mom in the past that the captain goes down with the ship. Doesn’t seem like a good idea with this storm

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

its are really tiny storm, hence the very rapid growth. the wake of its path wont be good but it will not be as destructive as the massive storms that come to shore as high cat 3s or cat 4. not as much surface to winds to cause storm surge or large amounts of rain wide spread flash flooding.

 

[bleedgreen]

I mean, maybe. I don't get the impression there is any real bad blood between Waddell and the Canes right now, so it could be a spot where, if Monahan isn't going to be with the Jackets, Waddell could move him to Carolina for a few of our prospects that he likes, knowing its a good organization to get his head back on straight.

At the same time, I could see Monahan dig in with Columbus to help lead the charge on the rebuild in honor of JG.

That’s what I mean by his character. I could 100% hear that guy honestly saying he buys in and wants to be part of the turnaround. Another of many reasons why I’d like him. His age fits the group if we’re going to compete here in the next few years, he’s a natural complement to Aho at C (he’s a shooter vs a playmaker) and he can play Rod’s system. When you look around the league there’s not a lot of guys who have a little of Rod’s game to them in turns of responsible two way play with a good amount of offensive skill. ROR could be Rod’s other son, but Monahan has always been in that kind of space for me - when healthy. Not as gritty as ROR but responsible almost to a boring fault, this his old nickname. He reminds me of JStaal a bit in a way, just in his very straight forward and consistent nature. He’s obviously less moose-y, more skilled and less defensive.

If he was a righty we should’ve overpaid him in the summer to be with us. We’re obviously not afraid of the injury prone.

 

[bleedgreen]

IIRC, the talk at the time was that the Canes couldn't go wrong with either Lindholm or Monahan. Lindholm was more offensively gifted, while Monahan was seen as the better two–way player.

And yeah, given our franchise history, taking the two-way center seemed like the obvious choice.

And we did in the end - it would’ve been the same for either guy. The way I remember it Lindy was seen as a Backstrom lite, less natural offense but more spunk along the boards with expectations more in the 60-70 pt range if he hit. I never heard high offensive expectations of him, it was more two way with open ended hopes of offense because he has that Swedish skill level and it was hard to gauge how high that could go. He was even then a complimentary skill player best used with other skill guys if you wanted points. To me Monahan was the more known quantity, he wasn’t seen as having a super high ceiling but you knew the floor was going to be pretty solid. I thought he was seen as a 2C with maybe more if he hit and at worst would be a very good 3C. He wasn’t a sexy pick because there wasn’t any exciting skill there, just solid pretty productive.

He reminded me a bit of Francis really.

 

[chaz4hockey]

its are really tiny storm, hence the very rapid growth. the wake of its path wont be good but it will not be as destructive as the massive storms that come to shore as high cat 3s or cat 4. not as much surface to winds to cause storm surge or large amounts of rain wide spread flash flooding.

Absolutely wrong.

No matter where it hits, the storm surge will be devastating from Naples up to Tampa (plus as it loses some steam near landfall it will naturally expand its width).

I've seen it first hand the damage this type of storm can do via Ian and Irma in the last 4 years. Even Helene which hit hundreds of miles by the big bend impacted Ft. Myers and Naples significantly with coastal flooding (they are still cleaning up with debris outside).

A 7'-'10 storm surge is going to greatly impact the coast + push water up rivers and canals which will impact communities miles inland too (ie Irma).

RE: Dunedin--that could be pretty close to the eye which could be devastating but then would be above the worst storm surge. I would check their address against the Evacuation Zone Map. If Zone A or B, I wouldn't be a hero and would leave NOW.

FWIW: Having experienced a cat 4 typhoon while in the Marine Corp on an Aircraft carrier in the 70's my rule of thumb is if it's coming, I'm leaving.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yeah, considering the ground in Florida is still f***ed up from Helene, and it's apparently been raining all the time since then, I imagine this new hurricane will only amplify that issue, regardless of its size.

It'll probably make land at a Cat 3, not the 5 it's at, but even a Cat 3 is devastating.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Absolutely wrong.

No matter where it hits, the storm surge will be devastating from Naples up to Tampa (plus as it loses some steam near landfall it will naturally expand its width).

I've seen it first hand the damage this type of storm can do via Ian and Irma in the last 4 years. Even Helene which hit hundreds of miles by the big bend impacted Ft. Myers and Naples significantly with coastal flooding (they are still cleaning up with debris outside).

A 7'-'10 storm surge is going to greatly impact the coast + push water up rivers and canals which will impact communities miles inland too (ie Irma).

RE: Dunedin--that could be pretty close to the eye which could be devastating but then would be above the worst storm surge. I would check their address against the Evacuation Zone Map. If Zone A or B, I wouldn't be a hero and would leave NOW.

FWIW: Having experienced a cat 4 typhoon while in the Marine Corp on an Aircraft carrier in the 70's my rule of thumb is if it's coming, I'm leaving.

A simple google search would do you good.

Also reading what i said is also helpful. I said while anything in its direct path will be hit hard (wouldn’t be good were my actual words), storms these size don’t create the wide spread storm surge and raining. That is absolutely true, btw

More area of a storm, the more ocean it is pushing inland (wide spread) and the larger the storm the longer the winds are pushing the ocean (impact in specific areas).

My wife and I have paid attention to this Orlando meteorologist since we were down there for the last hurricane. He has said all the stuff I posted here, which i looked up to verify

 

[DaveG]

They will have some problems selling as they are pretty close to the floor. Won’t be just futures going back. Maybe that could be a good thing…

oh they'll weaponize that cap space to retain on some impending UFAs at the deadline. IIRC they have all 3 retention slots available to them this season.