Around the League 43: Playoff Time- Goodbye Buffalo, Goodbye Yzerplan. And Goodbye Yotes, Welcome Utah.

[cptjeff]

Teflon Ron Francis. Did nothing to improve the team, fires his coach.

He took zero risks during the expansion draft. There were numerous stars and potential stars available. They had risky contracts or had had some bad years, but he took the most anodyne 3rd liners available and decided to just wait for lightning to strike in the draft. You know, the system deliberately set up so that every team should be able to have roughly equal access to young talent. In a competitive league where you need not equality, but advantage.

Vegas took risks. They made trades (and to be fair to Francis, teams were much more reluctant to do that for Seattle), they took risks on guys. They have the most aggressive management in the NHL, by far, and have won a cup and been to two finals, missing the playoffs only once in 7 seasons. Francis, on the other hand, is probably the single most passive GM in the NHL, and well, he's made the playoffs only once in his seven seasons as a GM.

But sure, it's all on the coach...

 

[cptjeff]

Yes, I pretty much agree with that. But those same insiders that are legit and say it's done have brought up the assistants thing again. I don't think there's anything that won't get ironed out but you leave yourself open to this silliness when you don't have it done months ago. It's largely just noise, but it could be avoided.

It's entirely just noise. Ignoring it or laughing at it is the correct response, not handwringing.

 

[IronCladCane]

Canes already favored over the Rags on May 6th not sure how much I like that mojo

 

[A Star is Burns]

It's entirely just noise. Ignoring it or laughing at it is the correct response, not handwringing.

Yeah, there was no handwringing. I wrote a couple of relevant posts on a message board.

 

[Svechhammer]

Canes already favored over the Rags on May 6th not sure how much I like that mojo

If anything, it gives us a good idea on when the 2nd round would potentially start

FTFY.

Rod ain't going anywhere and the actual insiders have been reporting that his deal has been agreed to for ages. Rod is currently negotiating on behalf of his assistants, again.

Man, I'm not even an insider, but I've had the chance to ask Don about it and he just laughed

I don't think there is any worry of an extension in the front office

 

[IronCladCane]

If anything, it gives us a good idea on when the 2nd round would potentially start


Man, I'm not even an insider, but I've had the chance to ask Don about it and he just laughed

I don't think there is any worry of an extension in the front office

May 6th

 

[bleedgreen]

He took zero risks during the expansion draft. There were numerous stars and potential stars available. They had risky contracts or had had some bad years, but he took the most anodyne 3rd liners available and decided to just wait for lightning to strike in the draft. You know, the system deliberately set up so that every team should be able to have roughly equal access to young talent. In a competitive league where you need not equality, but advantage.

Vegas took risks. They made trades (and to be fair to Francis, teams were much more reluctant to do that for Seattle), they took risks on guys. They have the most aggressive management in the NHL, by far, and have won a cup and been to two finals, missing the playoffs only once in 7 seasons. Francis, on the other hand, is probably the single most passive GM in the NHL, and well, he's made the playoffs only once in his seven seasons as a GM.

But sure, it's all on the coach...

I know everyone is going to clown me just for popping my head into this but…..what veteran should they have taken? I think at this point he’s more than proven he pretty much nailed the expansion draft. Tarasenko over Dunn? Price? Voracek?

It doesn’t matter how many moves he makes, it’s never enough for certain crowds. They lost players last off season because they didn’t want to overpay the bottom six guys, they didn’t have the same chemistry so they stepped back and they didn’t have a ton of room….yet they were rumored in on everyone same as us. When we don’t get the guy we want we pat ourselves on the back for not overstepping and overpaying but we say RF sits on his hands for doing the same exact thing. Now they’ll have more young talent coming in. Hakstol was fine to start with but he always feels like a place holder until you find the guy you really want. Like others have said he’s pretty vanilla.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

yet they were rumored in on everyone same as us. When we don’t get the guy we want we pat ourselves on the back for not overstepping and overpaying but we say RF sits on his hands for doing the same exact thing.

Yea that isn’t true in the slightest. We don’t get the guy people hang ring like crazy. Im not sure what board you have been reading. Francis hasn’t tried though

 

[WreckingCrew]

Yea that isn’t true in the slightest. We don’t get the guy people hang ring like crazy. Im not sure what board you have been reading. Francis hasn’t tried though

Yea I mean since the expansion draft (July 21, 2021), this is the list of players acquired through trades:
Daniel Sprong
Victor Rask
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Jaycob Megna
Tomas Tatar

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yea I mean since the expansion draft (July 21, 2021), this is the list of players acquired through trades:
Daniel Sprong
Victor Rask
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Jaycob Megna
Tomas Tatar

Acquiring tatar was weird, albeit a 5th rounder. But its the francis way, no helping your team make the playoffs unless its a 5th or the price we paid for McKegg

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

A decade from now, when the league is at 34 or whatever, I think we’ll reflect back on Vegas and appreciate what it did rather than critique comparables for what they didn't do. Great scouting combined with catching the league a bit off guard allowed them to build a winner early, making it a place players wanted to be. Management didn’t get emotional about the group and acted aggressively to improve year after year after year.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yea I mean since the expansion draft (July 21, 2021), this is the list of players acquired through trades:
Daniel Sprong
Victor Rask
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Jaycob Megna
Tomas Tatar

Who cares if it’s through trades? How many have we acquired through trades since that date? I’ve never understood that one, not a lot of trades these days in general unless you’re Vegas.

Outside of Guentzel and Kuzy…..how many players have we acquired since that expansion draft date?

Domi
Pool party
Ghost
Tony
Burns
Pederson
Jake
kuzy
Smith

Only three more that I’ve found and I’m including two AHL players (which I shouldn’t). There’s a couple of minor league guys we got, and a good chunk of those guys are rentals for playoff runs which they’ve only had one of. We’ve been a top team the whole time and they’re a building expansion. This particular argument has never made any sense. They operate almost exactly like us.

 

[MinJaBen]

Outside of Guentzel and Kuzy…..how many players have we acquired since that expansion draft date?

Domi
Pool party
Ghost
Tony
Burns
Pederson
Jake
kuzy
Smith

Am I missing something?

 

[Chrispy]

Who cares if it’s through trades? How many have we acquired through trades since that date? I’ve never understood that one, not a lot of trades these days in general unless you’re Vegas.

Outside of Guentzel and Kuzy…..how many players have we acquired since that expansion draft date?

Domi
Pool party
Ghost
Tony
Burns
Pederson
Jake
kuzy
Smith

Only three more that I’ve found and I’m including two AHL players (which I shouldn’t). There’s a couple of minor league guys we got, and a good chunk of those guys are rentals for playoff runs which they’ve only had one of. We’ve been a top team the whole time and they’re a building expansion. This particular argument has never made any sense. They operate almost exactly like us.

Add Pacioretty and Bear (Coghlin is in that shouldn't group as well.) Bear qualifies by a week.

When you add Pacioretty and Bear to that list, you have an extensive difference even if you remove the tweeners.

I will grant there are a fair number of rentals in that list, but still ahead on full season or more pickups as well.

Keep in mind, Rask and Tatar were both rentals.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Ron Francis’ teams have stunk, and will stink until he finds either a scout/coach/executive who can find or develop a goalie.

Seattles GSAA is -57 in 3 seasons. Thats pure insanity. I’m too lazy to look up his years in Carolina but I cant imagine those numbers looked good.

 

[bleedgreen]

Add Pacioretty and Bear (Coghlin is in that shouldn't group as well.) Bear qualifies by a week.

When you add Pacioretty and Bear to that list, you have an extensive difference even if you remove the tweeners.

I will grant there are a fair number of rentals in that list, but still ahead on full season or more pickups as well.

Keep in mind, Rask and Tatar were both rentals.

Well Rask was in a year they weren’t going to the playoffs, so it was more of a tryout. They only paid future considerations for him so I’m not sure that fits in the category you’d want it to be in.

My point remains, if you took out our rentals or gave them two more playoff shots the numbers wouldn’t be far off. We also had to replace Tony with Burns, whereas they haven’t been in a spot where they had replace a top line player yet.

They’re not out of whack for the league I’d suspect, they’ve had full rosters so moves only made sense if it was a clear upgrade for a good price…just like us.

Ron Francis’ teams have stunk, and will stink until he finds either a scout/coach/executive who can find or develop a goalie.

Seattles GSAA is -57 in 3 seasons. Thats pure insanity. I’m too lazy to look up his years in Carolina but I cant imagine those numbers looked good.

I agree about the goalies, he’s never had any luck with them. I was actually in the small group that wasn’t happy we got Darling because I’d watched him the playoffs before and he looked way more lucky than good. Someone does need to make his goalie decisions for him, or he needs to fire the guy who’s made them. I’d assume they were on some level different people from us to Seattle so there’s a curse in there somewhere. I think they would’ve contended for a playoff spot that first year if they had goaltending, that team had a lot going for it otherwise.

To be fair we weren’t a team a goalie would have good numbers on until arguably year four where a top goalie might’ve made a difference.

 

[Chrispy]

Rask was Francis’s equivalent move to Poolparty: short term lottery ticket that had little shot of working.

Doesn’t make sense to only call one a rental because that team actually made the playoffs.

 

[sabremike]

Teflon Ron Francis. Did nothing to improve the team, fires his coach.

Shocking plot twist: Seattle fires Ronnie, replaces him with John Cullen and proceeds to win the cup.

 

[bleedgreen]

Rask was Francis’s equivalent move to Poolparty: short term lottery ticket that had little shot of working.

Doesn’t make sense to only call one a rental because that team actually made the playoffs.

Well it’s a deal that was about seeing if Rask could be a player still so they could sign him in the off season if he was. Playoff rentals are about the playoffs and not the future. You’re typically going to get at least four more games out of them.

It’s splitting hairs I suppose, just doesn’t feel the same. The point remains for me overall though.

Shocking plot twist: Seattle fires Ronnie, replaces him with John Cullen and proceeds to win the cup.

Technically that should doom them to relocation….

 

[Joe McGrath]

Shocking plot twist: Seattle fires Ronnie, replaces him with John Cullen and proceeds to win the cup.

By wins the cup you mean moves to the south?

 

[Svechhammer]

Never fails to amuse me how far some will go to defend those who helped prolong our decade of suck

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Never fails to amuse me how far some will go to defend those who helped prolong our decade of suck

I think he did the best he could in the situation he found himself in. His first few years were hampered by the contracts leftover from JR's final years here, and then being completely handcuffed by Karmanos' absolute refusal to spend money to be competitive.

 

[Svechhammer]

 

[bleedgreen]

I think he did the best he could in the situation he found himself in. His first few years were hampered by the contracts leftover from JR's final years here, and then being completely handcuffed by Karmanos' absolute refusal to spend money to be competitive.

Never fails to amuse me to see how people need a scapegoat more than they’ll look at the obvious picture, while refusing to acknowledge that good came from that time. Or refusing to attach RF to any of the good.

On top of what you’ve mentioned there were few prospects in the cupboard, and like you alluded to those big contracts were attached to guys no one wanted. Our vets weren’t worth much in trade to help the rebuild.

I think what seem people think as “going so far” to defend is actually just the same points over and over. It’s actually not very far.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Francis had nothing holding him back but himself to make a trade to get players at the deadline, even smart trades, to help us get to the playoffs.

We got greg McKegg instead. Case closed.