Around the League, 2024-25

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

There isn't an example. The reason being that players like Pettersson with term on their contracts don't get traded, period. If one becomes available, and they very rarely do (and most often on expiring contracts), then you have to pony up if you want them. The Wings have been bridesmaids too often in the past decade and a half, it's long past time they become the bride. Nothing insane about paying a big price to lock down an elite 1C for the foreseeable future. Especially considering it's been the one significant and vital piece that has eluded us so far in this rebuild. MBN, Augustine, Kasper/Danielson and the 1sts are unlikely to join hands and make a Power Rangers-like transformation into an elite 1C.

With that trade, our rebuild would no longer appear to hinge on one of Kasper/Danielson developing into a top 6 C, and the one that doesn't get traded would make a great 3C (seriously, Pettersson-Larkin-Kasper/Danielson is a hell of a top 3). Augustine is redundant with Cossa, you don't need 2 high-end goalies. And MBN plus two likely mid-late 1sts are ultimately replaceable.

The closest recent-ish comparable I can find was Ryan O'Reilly, a far lesser player than Pettersson who was older and on the back half of his career, going for two NHL roster players in Berglund and Sobotka, Tage Thompson, a 1st rd pick, and a 2nd rd pick. And would you look at that, despite paying a big price St Louis ended up winning the Cup. Do you think they're regretting not having Thompson and that 1st round pick now? Paying the package I suggested similarly leaves Detroit in a better position now and going forward. The pieces we'd be giving up are far easier to acquire through other means than a player like Pettersson.

The people saying they'd offer Kasper plus a 1st are the ones who are detached from reality. May as well save your breath if you're going to offer that, you're not getting a young, elite 1C with term for a prospect and a mid-first (possibly a late 1st depending on how much Pettersson would improve the team). And I'd be willing to bet a lot of the people who would make such a joke of an offer will also fault Yzerman for not getting a 1C.

With the trade I proposed, we could be looking at this in a couple years:

Berggren-Pettersson-Raymond
Debrincat-Larkin-XXX
Rasmussen-Kasper/Danielson-XXX
Veleno-Compher-Motte

Edvinsson-Seider
XXX-ASP
Johansson-XXX

Cossa

The defensive XXXs could be filled internally by Wallinder, Buium, or Tuomisto. The forward XXXs could be filled internally by Buchelnikov, Mazur, LDN, Plante, Kiiskinen, Finnie, Lombardi, Becher, Soderblom. Anything else can be acquired relatively cheaply in trade or free agency.

I'd much rather be in that position than still having MBN, both Kasper and Danielson, Augustine, and those two 1sts and still scratching our heads wondering how the hell we'll ever get an elite 1C. Pettersson, Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, ASP, Cossa. That's a core you can build a championship contender out of.

you're conveniently leaving out the part that vancouver won't want futures for pettersson. any trade from detroit would include one of our core, larkin, raymond, edvinsson or seider. which of those guys are you willing to part with?

also, there's a good chance that pettersson is an 80 point center not a 100 point one, and almost certainly not on detroit. is that worth 11.6 million dollars and one of our top 4?

 

[HisNoodliness]

There isn't an example. The reason being that players like Pettersson with term on their contracts don't get traded, period. If one becomes available, and they very rarely do (and most often on expiring contracts), then you have to pony up if you want them. The Wings have been bridesmaids too often in the past decade and a half, it's long past time they become the bride. Nothing insane about paying a big price to lock down an elite 1C for the foreseeable future. Especially considering it's been the one significant and vital piece that has eluded us so far in this rebuild. MBN, Augustine, Kasper/Danielson and the 1sts are unlikely to join hands and make a Power Rangers-like transformation into an elite 1C.

With that trade, our rebuild would no longer appear to hinge on one of Kasper/Danielson developing into a top 6 C, and the one that doesn't get traded would make a great 3C (seriously, Pettersson-Larkin-Kasper/Danielson is a hell of a top 3). Augustine is redundant with Cossa, you don't need 2 high-end goalies. And MBN plus two likely mid-late 1sts are ultimately replaceable.

Kasper, MBN, 2025 and 2026 1sts, Augustine and Wallinder for Petterson? That is really pricey and as far as "here's six quarters , give me a dollar" trades go, Vancouver would be doing pretty well for themselves.

If you can get Pettersson without giving up Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, ASP or an unprotected 1st, then you should do it immediately. We are desperately hoping that one of Kasper, Danielson, MBN or those firsts turns into a player like Pettersson. We would need lottery protection on those firsts though (classic if you win the lottery the pick becomes an unprotected first the following year clause).

you're conveniently leaving out the part that vancouver won't want futures for pettersson. any trade from detroit would include one of our core, larkin, raymond, edvinsson or seider. which of those guys are you willing to part with?

also, there's a good chance that pettersson is an 80 point center not a 100 point one, and almost certainly not on detroit. is that worth 11.6 million dollars and one of our top 4?

This is the problem. I can't see Vancouver accepting a trade without one of these guys. I think the only even somewhat reasonable answer is Larkin. Seider, Edvinsson and Raymond are all first line players at 23 or younger. We simply can't trade them. Pettersson is younger and probably a little better than Larkin. I'm really not sure that he is better though and with all of the personality buzz around him in Vancouver, I'm not sure if we want to trade our captain for him. It's a moot point anyway as I don't see Larkin accepting a trade to Vancouver. You can't move any of the other three

ASP is an interesting case. I could trade ASP for Pettersson but I don't see Vancouver doing that one for one or anything at all like that. I have trouble adding to ASP because I really believe in him. I'm so sold that to me he already has the value that he'll have for everyone else after a successful rookie season in the NHL.

 

[The Zermanator]

you're conveniently leaving out the part that vancouver won't want futures for pettersson. any trade from detroit would include one of our core, larkin, raymond, edvinsson or seider. which of those guys are you willing to part with?

also, there's a good chance that pettersson is an 80 point center not a 100 point one, and almost certainly not on detroit. is that worth 11.6 million dollars and one of our top 4?

I'm not conveniently leaving out anything. And unless you're Patrick Allvin, you have no idea what Vancouver would accept. If Vancouver is actually going to trade Pettersson, what they want and what they get are two different things. I don't know what team would be able to put together a non-futures package that would beat the one I suggested from the Wings, so if Vancouver wants to take a lesser package composed of non-futures, that's their choice. So to answer your first question, no I would not include any of the current core pieces in the offer. All you can do is make a serious offer and hope for the best. If Vancouver were to accept the package I suggested, they could easily split it into 2 or 3 packages to flip for good/great players for better depth. You might say Detroit could do the same, but we need one elite centre more than we need 2-3 good/great players.

He's 26 years old, PPG over his career (including the early years), is two seasons removed from a 100 point season, had 89 points last season, and is near PPG this season which to him counts as "struggling". Hell yeah he's worth 11.6, especially with the cap primed to increase substantially over the coming seasons. Like I said, you add Pettersson to the current core pieces, and that is the foundation of a Stanley Cup contender.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

I'm not conveniently leaving out anything. And unless you're Patrick Allvin, you have no idea what Vancouver would accept. If Vancouver is actually going to trade Pettersson, what they want and what they get are two different things. I don't know what team would be able to put together a non-futures package that would beat the one I suggested from the Wings, so if Vancouver wants to take a lesser package composed of non-futures, that's their choice. So to answer your first question, no I would not include any of the current core pieces in the offer. All you can do is make a serious offer and hope for the best. If Vancouver were to accept the package I suggested, they could easily split it into 2 or 3 packages to flip for good/great players for better depth. You might say Detroit could do the same, but we need one elite centre more than we need 2-3 good/great players.

He's 26 years old, PPG over his career (including the early years), is two seasons removed from a 100 point season, had 89 points last season, and is near PPG this season which to him counts as "struggling". Hell yeah he's worth 11.6, especially with the cap primed to increase substantially over the coming seasons. Like I said, you add Pettersson to the current core pieces, and that is the foundation of a Stanley Cup contender.

ok lol. in that case my offer is compher and holl. you cant say it won't work because you're not patrick allvin and you have no idea what he'll accept. matter of fact, vancouver throws in hughes and willander and we'll add husso. take it or leave it

who could offer a better non-futures package? gee, i don't know? maybe the team that everyone is proposing a 3 team trade with?? cozens + byram + picks and prospects

 

[The Zermanator]

Kasper, MBN, 2025 and 2026 1sts, Augustine and Wallinder for Petterson? That is really pricey and as far as "here's six quarters , give me a dollar" trades go, Vancouver would be doing pretty well for themselves.

If you can get Pettersson without giving up Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, ASP or an unprotected 1st, then you should do it immediately. We are desperately hoping that one of Kasper, Danielson, MBN or those firsts turns into a player like Pettersson. We would need lottery protection on those firsts though (classic if you win the lottery the pick becomes an unprotected first the following year clause).



This is the problem. I can't see Vancouver accepting a trade without one of these guys. I think the only even somewhat reasonable answer is Larkin. Seider, Edvinsson and Raymond are all first line players at 23 or younger. We simply can't trade them. Pettersson is younger and probably a little better than Larkin. I'm really not sure that he is better though and with all of the personality buzz around him in Vancouver, I'm not sure if we want to trade our captain for him. It's a moot point anyway as I don't see Larkin accepting a trade to Vancouver. You can't move any of the other three

ASP is an interesting case. I could trade ASP for Pettersson but I don't see Vancouver doing that one for one or anything at all like that. I have trouble adding to ASP because I really believe in him. I'm so sold that to me he already has the value that he'll have for everyone else after a successful rookie season in the NHL.

I'd say you're underselling the players I added into the package by referring to them as "quarters", those are all valuable assets. But I see your point in that it's offering several less valuable pieces for one more valuable piece. But I've already addressed that aspect of it in acknowledging that, while it is an expensive price to pay, the team is better off not only today, but going forward as well. We have a glut of good/great, but not elite, players in the system. Paying a premium in terms of giving up some of those good/great players in exchange for the one thing we're really missing in this rebuild is totally worth it, IMO.

As far as protecting the 1sts, certainly that would be preferable to not protecting them, I just don't think it would be necessary. And if that was a sticking point to actually getting the trade done I wouldn't take any issue with leaving them unprotected. The reason being that with the possible exception of Kasper, the current squad would not be subtracting anyone, only adding Pettersson. The current Red Wings, plus Pettersson, are not a lottery team. In fact, they're almost certainly a playoff team. No need to protect non-lottery 1st round picks.

As far as the points in your reply to @AlwaysSunnyInDetroit, I addressed my thoughts on that in my reply to him. I would be curious to hear from either of you about which team would be in a position to make a better non-futures offer than the package I suggested. Because again, what Vancouver wants and what they ultimately get aren't necessarily to same thing. If the package I suggested is much better than any non-futures package they might be offered by other teams, I would think we would have a good chance of sealing the deal.

 

[The Zermanator]

ok lol. in that case my offer is compher and holl. you cant say it won't work because you're not patrick allvin and you have no idea what he'll accept. matter of fact, vancouver throws in hughes and willander and we'll add husso. take it or leave it

who could offer a better non-futures package? gee, i don't know? maybe the team that everyone is proposing a 3 team trade with?? cozens + byram + picks and prospects

You're comparing an apple with a rotten orange. The package I offered has a lot of value, offered in exchange for a player with value. The one you just proposed has no value. If you're not even going to debate in good faith, then this exchange is pointless.

As for your 2nd paragraph, the package I offered has more value. Cozens is a struggling C who is probably more suited to the wing, getting paid $7M a year with production more befitting of a $4M player, while Byram is one concussion away from an early retirement and plays a style that is redundant for them since Hughes is already out there for all the moments you need a player like that anyway. But that's beside the point. Maybe Vancouver does prefer that offer, but like I said to you already, all Detroit can do is put their best foot forward and make a competitive offer. What happens, happens.

And there's another very important factor that you seem to have missed, which is that Pettersson has a full NMC on his contract, meaning he needs to approve of where he's being traded. I would suggest being an important part of a renaissance for an Original 6 team, leading alongside fellow Swedes in Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, and possibly others (Wallinder, LDN, etc.) would be alluring to him, more so than Buffalo. Detroit adds Pettersson for what I suggested, and the Wings have a deadly 1-2-3 punch down the middle, possibly the best top 3 D in the league, and a monster in net. Pettersson would have the opportunity to be a 1C on a Stanley Cup contender in Detroit, he almost certainly waives his NMC for that. Buffalo, I'm not so sure.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

You're comparing an apple with a rotten orange. The package I offered has a lot of value, offered in exchange for a player with value. The one you just proposed has no value. If you're not even going to debate in good faith, then this exchange is pointless.

As for your 2nd paragraph, the package I offered has more value. Cozens is a struggling C who is probably more suited to the wing, getting paid $7M a year with production more befitting of a $4M player, while Byram is one concussion away from an early retirement and plays a style that is redundant for them since Hughes is already out there for all the moments you need a player like that anyway. But that's beside the point. Maybe Vancouver does prefer that offer, but like I said to you already, all Detroit can do is put their best foot forward and make a competitive offer. What happens, happens.

And there's another very important factor that you seem to have missed, which is that Pettersson has a full NMC on his contract, meaning he needs to approve of where he's being traded. I would suggest being an important part of a renaissance for an Original 6 team, leading alongside fellow Swedes in Raymond, Edvinsson, ASP, and possibly others (Wallinder, LDN, etc.) would be alluring to him, more so than Buffalo. Detroit adds Pettersson for what I suggested, and the Wings have a deadly 1-2-3 punch down the middle, possibly the best top 3 D in the league, and a monster in net. Pettersson would have the opportunity to be a 1C on a Stanley Cup contender in Detroit, he almost certainly waives his NMC for that. Buffalo, I'm not so sure.

if you are unable to detect sarcasm then this exchange is pointless

rationalizations aside, cozens, byram, helenius and a 1st is a significantly better offer than mbn, augustine, kasper/danielson and 2 1sts. if you dont believe me, go ask anyone on the main board

also, pettersson doesn't have a nmc. it doesn't kick in until next year. that's why they are allegedly considering moving him instead of miller

 

[JoesuffP]

I’m taking it one team to leap frog at a time where that gets us we’ll see

 

[The Zermanator]

if you are unable to detect sarcasm then this exchange is pointless

rationalizations aside, cozens, byram, helenius and a 1st is a significantly better offer than mbn, augustine, kasper/danielson and 2 1sts. if you dont believe me, go ask anyone on the main board

Well if you think the insane asylum that is the main board is a barometer of good judgment, then that says it all right there.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'd say you're underselling the players I added into the package by referring to them as "quarters", those are all valuable assets. But I see your point in that it's offering several less valuable pieces for one more valuable piece. But I've already addressed that aspect of it in acknowledging that, while it is an expensive price to pay, the team is better off not only today, but going forward as well. We have a glut of good/great, but not elite, players in the system. Paying a premium in terms of giving up some of those good/great players in exchange for the one thing we're really missing in this rebuild is totally worth it, IMO.

As far as protecting the 1sts, certainly that would be preferable to not protecting them, I just don't think it would be necessary. And if that was a sticking point to actually getting the trade done I wouldn't take any issue with leaving them unprotected. The reason being that with the possible exception of Kasper, the current squad would not be subtracting anyone, only adding Pettersson. The current Red Wings, plus Pettersson, are not a lottery team. In fact, they're almost certainly a playoff team. No need to protect non-lottery 1st round picks.

As far as the points in your reply to @AlwaysSunnyInDetroit, I addressed my thoughts on that in my reply to him. I would be curious to hear from either of you about which team would be in a position to make a better non-futures offer than the package I suggested. Because again, what Vancouver wants and what they ultimately get aren't necessarily to same thing. If the package I suggested is much better than any non-futures package they might be offered by other teams, I would think we would have a good chance of sealing the deal.

The rumored offer from Carolina last off-season was Necas. Vancouver said no. I'm sure that they'd say yes now and that offer is likely off the table, but I expect that there's a lot of teams that would offer someone like that.

I think most team's second center would be available in a Pettersson trade.

 

[Gniwder]

The rumored offer from Carolina last off-season was Necas. Vancouver said no. I'm sure that they'd say yes now and that offer is likely off the table, but I expect that there's a lot of teams that would offer someone like that.

I think most team's second center would be available in a Pettersson trade.

I heard Copp is a 2C....

 

[The Zermanator]

The rumored offer from Carolina last off-season was Necas. Vancouver said no. I'm sure that they'd say yes now and that offer is likely off the table, but I expect that there's a lot of teams that would offer someone like that.

I think most team's second center would be available in a Pettersson trade.

Like I said, if Vancouver wants to take a lesser package just because it includes non-futures, and ignore that they could flip future pieces for non-future pieces, then that's their prerogative. But there isn't a 2C in the league worth the package I suggested from Detroit. It's an offer that I think would ensure the deal is done and Pettersson becomes a Red Wing, because I don't think any other team would be able to make such a substantial offer, futures or not, without taking a large step back themselves. This trade, while expensive, makes the Red Wings better today and going forward for the foreseeable future. And at the same time, with the amount of value going the other way, it puts Vancouver in a better position that whatever other offers they might get.

 

[Oddbob]

There isn't an example. The reason being that players like Pettersson with term on their contracts don't get traded, period. If one becomes available, and they very rarely do (and most often on expiring contracts), then you have to pony up if you want them. The Wings have been bridesmaids too often in the past decade and a half, it's long past time they become the bride. Nothing insane about paying a big price to lock down an elite 1C for the foreseeable future. Especially considering it's been the one significant and vital piece that has eluded us so far in this rebuild. MBN, Augustine, Kasper/Danielson and the 1sts are unlikely to join hands and make a Power Rangers-like transformation into an elite 1C.

With that trade, our rebuild would no longer appear to hinge on one of Kasper/Danielson developing into a top 6 C, and the one that doesn't get traded would make a great 3C (seriously, Pettersson-Larkin-Kasper/Danielson is a hell of a top 3). Augustine is redundant with Cossa, you don't need 2 high-end goalies. And MBN plus two likely mid-late 1sts are ultimately replaceable.

The closest recent-ish comparable I can find was Ryan O'Reilly, a far lesser player than Pettersson who was older and on the back half of his career, going for two NHL roster players in Berglund and Sobotka, Tage Thompson, a 1st rd pick, and a 2nd rd pick. And would you look at that, despite paying a big price St Louis ended up winning the Cup. Do you think they're regretting not having Thompson and that 1st round pick now? Paying the package I suggested similarly leaves Detroit in a better position now and going forward. The pieces we'd be giving up are far easier to acquire through other means than a player like Pettersson.

The people saying they'd offer Kasper plus a 1st are the ones who are detached from reality. May as well save your breath if you're going to offer that, you're not getting a young, elite 1C with term for a prospect and a mid-first (possibly a late 1st depending on how much Pettersson would improve the team). And I'd be willing to bet a lot of the people who would make such a joke of an offer will also fault Yzerman for not getting a 1C.

With the trade I proposed, we could be looking at this in a couple years:

Berggren-Pettersson-Raymond
Debrincat-Larkin-XXX
Rasmussen-Kasper/Danielson-XXX
Veleno-Compher-Motte

Edvinsson-Seider
XXX-ASP
Johansson-XXX

Cossa

The defensive XXXs could be filled internally by Wallinder, Buium, or Tuomisto. The forward XXXs could be filled internally by Buchelnikov, Mazur, LDN, Plante, Kiiskinen, Finnie, Lombardi, Becher, Soderblom. Anything else can be acquired relatively cheaply in trade or free agency.

I'd much rather be in that position than still having MBN, both Kasper and Danielson, Augustine, and those two 1sts and still scratching our heads wondering how the hell we'll ever get an elite 1C. Pettersson, Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, ASP, Cossa. That's a core you can build a championship contender out of.

Why pay as much as you say when you can get the same player for far less? You are simply over-doing what it costs to acquire a player like this.

 

[Oddbob]

Oh man, it's been a long time since the "Detroit Redwings Downfall" thread was on page 2. Feels good.

I will say, Wings fans need to just stay out of there. The mains is right and only they know anything about our team, so continuing to argue with them is lost time and effort. I have engaged in there far too often, but that is the only way to stop it is to ignore them. That said, the Mods should have shut both of those threads down months ago, so they aren't doing there job. No other team shit attack threads stay open that long, but somehow there are two simultaneous Wings crap threads over 2000 posts each still open.

Yeah for real, let the same five posters who just troll forget about it.

Yeah, let Jimmy Apples enjoy his Sens haven't accomplished anything ever but are way better than Wings in peace.

 

[Oddbob]

I'm not conveniently leaving out anything. And unless you're Patrick Allvin, you have no idea what Vancouver would accept. If Vancouver is actually going to trade Pettersson, what they want and what they get are two different things. I don't know what team would be able to put together a non-futures package that would beat the one I suggested from the Wings, so if Vancouver wants to take a lesser package composed of non-futures, that's their choice. So to answer your first question, no I would not include any of the current core pieces in the offer. All you can do is make a serious offer and hope for the best. If Vancouver were to accept the package I suggested, they could easily split it into 2 or 3 packages to flip for good/great players for better depth. You might say Detroit could do the same, but we need one elite centre more than we need 2-3 good/great players.

He's 26 years old, PPG over his career (including the early years), is two seasons removed from a 100 point season, had 89 points last season, and is near PPG this season which to him counts as "struggling". Hell yeah he's worth 11.6, especially with the cap primed to increase substantially over the coming seasons. Like I said, you add Pettersson to the current core pieces, and that is the foundation of a Stanley Cup contender.

Vancouver is trying to win, they are 100% not trading EP for future hopefuls.