Around the League 2024-25 season

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Even 5-on-5, he's still getting < 11 minutes. That's Akil Thomas territory in LA.

My guess is it's more to do with getting him comfortable.


Faber spent another year in college after declining to sign. Blake wanted Fiala and had to give value. Sometimes it's just that simple.

There is nobody from any camp, except for rumormongers and fans needing to pretend they "won" the trade by diminishing his value artificially, who has even insinuated he would only sign with the Wild.

Either way, with Kaliyev, I'm ambivalent. I think I said in the prediction thread that I didn't think Kaliyev would play more than 10 games with the Kingsthis season. I think the Kings' rigid developmental decisions the past few years was a disservice to Kaliyev. But Kaliyev does have lingering compete issues where, at this age, he should be better.

You can argue being unmitivated. But ultimately, Kaliyev needs to advocate for himself both on and off the ice. It's not clear what he did off the ice, but he has to shoulder some of the blame for how he did play. It was below his capabilities.
My timeline is not incorrect thought, is it? Blake traded Faber shortly after he declined to sign the contract so he could stay in college one more year. He then joined the Wild the next season after his college career ended and immediately ate up minutes in the playoffs.

Anyways, I'm not saying that he would only sign with Minnesota but I am saying that Blake might have been miffed that Faber rebuffed his advances. I mean, Troy Stecher put up four points in four games in the playoffs that year, but Spence was horrible. If they were "right there" last season, how did Bluc feel about going to Game 7 without Doughty? Maybe they think Faber would have made the difference?

It's just conjecture though. What isn't, however, is saying that it is batshit crazy that the 2022 roster went to seven games with Edmonton. Like, it is pretty insane when you take a look at it.
 
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The reason Faber didn't sign with the Kings is he felt he had unfinished business at Minnesota, and wanted to make a run at the national championship. He did that the following year but by that point Blake had traded him to the Wild. That's literally it. Full stop. He's stated this himself in interviews.
 
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The reason Faber didn't sign with the Kings is he felt he had unfinished business at Minnesota, and wanted to make a run at the national championship. He did that the following year but by that point Blake had traded him to the Wild. That's literally it. Full stop. He's stated this himself in interviews.
We were on the other side of the Jack Johnson trade this time.
 
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Are we really going to sit here and argue that Kaliev needs to take responsibility for only putting up 15 points in 51 games (tying Trevor Lewis' total over 82 games) in a largely diminished role, while being in the doghouse/press box half the season?

Can you really look at how he's starting off in New York and honestly say "yeah, clearly Kaliev was the problem"?
Yes, obviously yes.
 
Are we really going to sit here and argue that Kaliev needs to take responsibility for only putting up 15 points in 51 games (tying Trevor Lewis' total over 82 games) in a largely diminished role, while being in the doghouse/press box half the season?

Can you really look at how he's starting off in New York and honestly say "yeah, clearly Kaliev was the problem"?
In case I don't make it clear - by and large, I don't care about numbers. Especially for low-value contracts. I don't care if he put in 15, 10, 5, or 1. I was one of the staunchest Byfield supporters when he "only" put up 30 points.

I'll try not to ramble. But with my focus on prospects, I care about growth of their game. Are they stronger on the puck? Do they generate chances for others? Are they building on their tools? How intense is their level of play?

Kaliyev simply did not grow in any of those areas. And in the areas where he was strongest, he wasn't doing well either. I don't think he was just snake bitten. Sure, he had some whiffs on chances, but how often did he create those scoring chances? Were his shots from dangerous areas? Is he using variety in his shots? Are they creating rebounds? To me, he wasn't.

He was suspended from a reckless hit, but beyond that, how often did he hit? How sharp were his turns? How fast are his feet moving?

Those were things within his control. Was he understandably frustrated with the org? Maybe. You can argue it. I don't know his feelings but I can understand if he has a negative sentiment. But I also know that orgs have dinosaurs who just assume he's a one-dimensional kid with no heart.

The lack of production from a one-dimensional player isn't an issue with me if I am seeing improvement in execution. And you can do that on the first or fourth line. That's on him. It's why I also harp on Fiala. He keeps making the same errors, though he gets credit for toning down the selfish penalties.
 
Evidence is starting to pile up that the Kings org is the problem.. its not black and white, but one after the other you see guys thriving in a different circumstance... that happens all the time across the league, players dont fit in somewhwere, but find a better home elsewhere.. with the Kings there is a consistent pattern where if the guy doesnt follow the religion to a T he gradually becomes marginalized. So at the very least, in the Kaliyev case, they drafted a kid that wasnt suited to the style they wanted from a player...its telling that Kopi only had one season at PPG.. he was close several times.. still you can see that blueprint sets the standard for how they want all their players to behave.

One after the other,

WHO Who is thriving that LA "got rid of" JAD? Fagemo? Who?
 
Who gives a shit if Kaliyev grew or not? If I buy a stock for 5 bucks and it never grows beyond that I’m still not going to give it away for free like a f***ing moron.

If you bought a stock and it didn't grow, but it lost value every day.....at what point would you punt it?
 
It's just all giving off "Well what was Blake supposed to do?!?" vibes.

You interviewed and drafted the kid and he was largely exactly what was expected until he was shoved like a square peg into a round hole. Maybe he didn't do himself any favors mouthing off or whatever after that, but as usual, the damage was already done, and it wasn't by Arty. Again, the organization has not given itself ANY benefit of the doubt when it comes to handling anyone under 25 years old.

3 points in last 5 games and +5 for an organization that was in a tailspin but is now turning around. But Blake ruined his value so hard he had to waive him? I'm not as willing to excuse that as some of you guys are, especially after a f***ing near-decade at this.

"He doesn't play the way we'd like him to" coming from this org...I mean, after a decade of failure after failure, that's high praise, and a sure sign that another org is going to pick off a player and find them useful. Doubly insulting that it's usually better teams than the Kings and a key role.
 
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One after the other,

WHO Who is thriving that LA "got rid of" JAD? Fagemo? Who?
Vilardi, PLD and probably soon Kaliyev.. its as much who thrives, as much as how no offensive minded player thrives under this regime.. whne did Kempe breakout, 25? Turcotte had injuries but he is just barely getting going kept in the A most of last season. Fiala keeps regressing here - sure you can blame him, but I think its the system as much as it is him. Maybe you could make a case for Laf but he isnt doing that much lately.. This is like garden with shit soil for offense.
 
Vilardi, PLD and probably soon Kaliyev.. its as much who thrives, as much as how no offensive minded player thrives under this regime.. whne did Kempe breakout, 25? Turcotte had injuries but he is just barely getting going kept in the A most of last season. Fiala keeps regressing here - sure you can blame him, but I think its the system as much as it is him. Maybe you could make a case for Laf but he isnt doing that much lately.. This is like garden with shit soil for offense.
PLD....lol, give me a f***ing break. So, I take it you were a fan of him last year and had a big fit when Blake unloaded last summer?...yah, doubt it.

Blake was an absolute idiot to trade for that sack of shit....but 100% did the right thing in sending him packing...in fact, what a set of balls to make that trade, sign that fool, and then trade him out all in one years time.

Maybe, just maybe, it was the ultimate wake-up call that PLD needed to get his shit together....unfortunately, the Kings paid the price. However, acquiring a goaltender that could be considered the MVP for this season isn't all that bad...but yah, we don't acknowledge that or anything.

As far as Vilardi...what are you even talking about? He played just as well as a King, he's not doing anything different...so what point are you trying to make? We all knew he was a great player, most of us (including myself) were very disappointed that he was moved out.
 
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In case I don't make it clear - by and large, I don't care about numbers. Especially for low-value contracts. I don't care if he put in 15, 10, 5, or 1. I was one of the staunchest Byfield supporters when he "only" put up 30 points.

I'll try not to ramble. But with my focus on prospects, I care about growth of their game. Are they stronger on the puck? Do they generate chances for others? Are they building on their tools? How intense is their level of play?

Kaliyev simply did not grow in any of those areas. And in the areas where he was strongest, he wasn't doing well either. I don't think he was just snake bitten. Sure, he had some whiffs on chances, but how often did he create those scoring chances? Were his shots from dangerous areas? Is he using variety in his shots? Are they creating rebounds? To me, he wasn't.

He was suspended from a reckless hit, but beyond that, how often did he hit? How sharp were his turns? How fast are his feet moving?

Those were things within his control. Was he understandably frustrated with the org? Maybe. You can argue it. I don't know his feelings but I can understand if he has a negative sentiment. But I also know that orgs have dinosaurs who just assume he's a one-dimensional kid with no heart.

The lack of production from a one-dimensional player isn't an issue with me if I am seeing improvement in execution. And you can do that on the first or fourth line. That's on him. It's why I also harp on Fiala. He keeps making the same errors, though he gets credit for toning down the selfish penalties.
So by your logic, he just "figured it out" going to New York then?

It isn't like this front office doesn't have a track record of having trouble communicating with younger players going back to the end of the previous regime (Erik Cernak being afraid.)
That still continues to today, with no one telling Turc his ice time was limited his first game back from injury.

Or players being miscast in roles they shouldn't be in, Durzi on the PK, drafting and signing 50 centers but forcing them all to play wing, Fagemo as exclusively a 4th liner while JAD amd Lewis play in the top 9.

Or continuing to make poor player evaluations at the NHL level like trading for PLD, and Fiala, then being all shocked when they don't fit into the system.

Or continuing to be unable to develop a goalie of any kind, Cal imploded, Villalta was nothing, Portillo is 24 and splitting time with Copley in the AHL.

But that's fine they can at least develop other position players... Oh, Bjornfot and JAD never looked better than their rookie years. They actively tried to have Turc murdered in the AHL by putting him there too early. Every prospect that has become a Kings regular either came to them NHL ready (Byfield, Clarke, Laf, Anderson) or was diluted into a JAG in the AHL.

But it's fine maybe they have a plan for what the team should be... Oh right first it was high skill, high speed but then they hired Todd and he ran the 1-3-1 to the teams detriment despite having a high skill, high speed roster. Then they needed more grit and now they'veabandoned the 1-3-1... Does every move seem to be reactionary based on what little criticism there is from the media?

Then they did their due diligence when hiring the new coach... Oh right, Hiller was the only guy they talked to.

Well at least they fixed the special teams being an issue... Oh, lord.

That's quite the track record of just bad decisions, nepotism, and just poor judgment.

But yeah, Kaliev was the problem. *makes jerk off motion in the air.
 
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Who gives a shit if Kaliyev grew or not? If I buy a stock for 5 bucks and it never grows beyond that I’m still not going to give it away for free like a f***ing moron.
I don't want a 23 year-old playing like he's still 18 just like I don't want Axl to post like he's 12.

You cut bait and move on when people don't grow up.

I was rooting for Kaliyev and was with you when the org mishandled him, which I think they did. I just also think it's important to acknowledge Kaliyev didn't do himself any favors.
 
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Vilardi, PLD and probably soon Kaliyev.. its as much who thrives, as much as how no offensive minded player thrives under this regime.. whne did Kempe breakout, 25? Turcotte had injuries but he is just barely getting going kept in the A most of last season. Fiala keeps regressing here - sure you can blame him, but I think its the system as much as it is him. Maybe you could make a case for Laf but he isnt doing that much lately.. This is like garden with shit soil for offense.

Vilardi, and PLD weren't "gotten rid of" they were traded for valuable assets, or contributing assets, you may dislike the trade, that's fine, but they weren't gotten rid of.

So again, I ask the question, who has LA "gotten rid of" that all of a sudden is prospering somewhere else? That's such a bullshit take on things (not saying it's exlusively yours) but when asked for specifics, it's bullshit back.

Who has broken out? Danault had his best offensive season with LA, Fiala is still near a PPG, not sure half a bad season counts as regression but who the f*** knows....Laf has career highs in goals, but yea, he's not breaking out.....
 
So by your logic, he just "figured it out" going to New York then?

It isn't like this front office doesn't have a track record of having trouble communicating with younger players going back to the end of the previous regime (Erik Cernak being afraid.)
That still continues to today, with no one telling Turc his ice time was limited his first game back from injury.

Or players being miscast in roles they shouldn't be in, Durzi on the PK, drafting and signing 50 centers but forcing them all to play wing, Fagemo as exclusively a 4th liner while JAD amd Lewis play in the top 9.

Or continuing to make poor player evaluations at the NHL level like trading for PLD, and Fiala, then being all shocked when they don't fit into the system.

Or continuing to be unable to develop a goalie of any kind, Cal imploded, Villalta was nothing, Portillo is 24 and splitting time with Copley in the AHL.

But that's fine they can at least develop other position players... Oh, Bjornfot and JAD never looked better than their rookie years. They actively tried to have Turc murdered in the AHL by putting him there too early. Every prospect that has become a Kings regular either came to them NHL ready (Byfield, Clarke, Laf, Anderson) or was diluted into a JAG in the AHL.

But it's fine maybe they have a plan for what the team should be... Oh right first it was high skill, high speed but then they hired Todd and he ran the 1-3-1 to the teams detriment despite having a high skill, high speed roster. Then they needed more grit and now they'veabandoned the 1-3-1... Does every move seem to be reactionary based on what little criticism there is from the media?

Then they did their due diligence when hiring the new coach... Oh right, Hiller was the only guy they talked to.

Well at least they fixed the special teams being an issue... Oh, lord.

That's quite the track record of just bad decisions, nepotism, and just poor judgment.

But yeah, Kaliev was the problem. *makes jerk off motion in the air.

Kaliyev "figured it out" JFC...let's give it more than 8 games and 10 minutes of ice time, the same bullshit you were bitching about here...he's getitng the SAME EXACT TREATMENT..but now he's figured it out...

You really can't make up this kind of bullshit....players being miscast, Durzi on the PK, yet in UTH, Durzi averaging 2:50 in SH time, up from 1:15 the year before...but he is cast FINE in UT, but MISCAST in LA...

Jesus Christ
 
So by your logic, he just "figured it out" going to New York then?
I think he getting the fresh start he needed.
It isn't like this front office doesn't have a track record of having trouble communicating with younger players going back to the end of the previous regime (Erik Cernak being afraid.)
That still continues to today, with no one telling Turc his ice time was limited his first game back from injury.

Or players being miscast in roles they shouldn't be in, Durzi on the PK, drafting and signing 50 centers but forcing them all to play wing, Fagemo as exclusively a 4th liner while JAD amd Lewis play in the top 9.

Or continuing to make poor player evaluations at the NHL level like trading for PLD, and Fiala, then being all shocked when they don't fit into the system.

Or continuing to be unable to develop a goalie of any kind, Cal imploded, Villalta was nothing, Portillo is 24 and splitting time with Copley in the AHL.

But that's fine they can at least develop other position players... Oh, Bjornfot and JAD never looked better than their rookie years. They actively tried to have Turc murdered in the AHL by putting him there too early. Every prospect that has become a Kings regular either came to them NHL ready (Byfield, Clarke, Laf, Anderson) or was diluted into a JAG in the AHL.

But it's fine maybe they have a plan for what the team should be... Oh right first it was high skill, high speed but then they hired Todd and he ran the 1-3-1 to the teams detriment despite having a high skill, high speed roster. Then they needed more grit and now they'veabandoned the 1-3-1... Does every move seem to be reactionary based on what little criticism there is from the media?

Then they did their due diligence when hiring the new coach... Oh right, Hiller was the only guy they talked to.

Well at least they fixed the special teams being an issue... Oh, lord.

That's quite the track record of just bad decisions, nepotism, and just poor judgment.

But yeah, Kaliev was the problem. *makes jerk off motion in the air.
This is all ignoring what I said. An organization can have issues and a player can have issues where it was best they go their separate way. Both can be true.

I'm not saying Kaliyev was the problem. But he had problems that weren't exclusive to bad organizational decisions.
 
Vilardi, and PLD weren't "gotten rid of" they were traded for valuable assets, or contributing assets, you may dislike the trade, that's fine, but they weren't gotten rid of.

So again, I ask the question, who has LA "gotten rid of" that all of a sudden is prospering somewhere else? That's such a bullshit take on things (not saying it's exlusively yours) but when asked for specifics, it's bullshit back.

Who has broken out? Danault had his best offensive season with LA, Fiala is still near a PPG, not sure half a bad season counts as regression but who the f*** knows....Laf has career highs in goals, but yea, he's not breaking out.....
Allow me to turn this around a bit if you dont mind. Can you make the case the Kings are good managing their resources? Looking at it holistically - are they getting good value out of their draft picks, and are the guys going through the system like Vilardi, Spence, Turcotte, Byfield and Clarke - have they excelled at their development? Instead of debating the details - lets just kind of come to some agreement on whether the Kings are doing a good job.. I say not really very good.. what do you say?
 
I think he getting the fresh start he needed.

This is all ignoring what I said. An organization can have issues and a player can have issues where it was best they go their separate way. Both can be true.

I'm not saying Kaliyev was the problem. But he had problems that weren't exclusive to bad organizational decisions.
But at what point do those organizational issues become a pattern of ineptitude?
 
Allow me to turn this around a bit if you dont mind. Can you make the case the Kings are good managing their resources? Looking at it holistically - are they getting good value out of their draft picks, and are the guys going through the system like Vilardi, Spence, Turcotte, Byfield and Clarke - have they excelled at their development? Instead of debating the details - lets just kind of come to some agreement on whether the Kings are doing a good job.. I say not really very good.. what do you say?

No better or no worse than any other team, have they had misses, 100%, show me a team that hasn't?

Vilardi is playing top line minutes in the NHL.....so is Turcotte, so is Byfield, so is Clarke....not sure on Spence's TOI, but top 4 probably....

Not sure what your argument is, you say the Kings aren't doing a good job....at what, getting value out of their draft picks? Sure they are. Homegrown players playing right now - Anderson, Kempe, Spence, Clarke, Byfield, Laferriere, Moveare, Turcotte, Thomas, Lee, Helenius.

Now Thomas, and Lee are in/out/up/down, absolutely so if you want to discount them, that's fine, and we aren't including Kopitar, Lewis, Doughty.....so out of the other 20 players, 9 are home grown players....tell me how that's not a good job.
 
No better or no worse than any other team, have they had misses, 100%, show me a team that hasn't?

Vilardi is playing top line minutes in the NHL.....so is Turcotte, so is Byfield, so is Clarke....not sure on Spence's TOI, but top 4 probably....

Not sure what your argument is, you say the Kings aren't doing a good job....at what, getting value out of their draft picks? Sure they are. Homegrown players playing right now - Anderson, Kempe, Spence, Clarke, Byfield, Laferriere, Moveare, Turcotte, Thomas, Lee, Helenius.

Now Thomas, and Lee are in/out/up/down, absolutely so if you want to discount them, that's fine, and we aren't including Kopitar, Lewis, Doughty.....so out of the other 20 players, 9 are home grown players....tell me how that's not a good job.
We all have been over this before.. but losing Kaliyev, JAD, Bjornfot to waivers are big fails in terms of getting value for high picks. They didnt get good value out of Vilardi who is close to PPG now. Turcotte and Byfield are far from what you'd expect for a 5 and 2. Has Blake really won any trades in 10 years? Def lost more than won.
 
But at what point do those organizational issues become a pattern of ineptitude?
As critical as I am of the organization, and I know I'll get a lot of angry responses (not necessarily from you, but maybe)... but I think the perception of organization ineptitude is overstated.

The Kings, like all orgs, have some strengths and weaknesses. They are very good at churning out blue-collar players. It's why players like Laferriere, Turcotte, Anderson, etc grow to have successful and long NHL careers.

But the Kings also realize they need skill players. In wars of attrition, you're more likely to win with both will AND skill. So, they target players with raw talent. They interview the prospects, but kids also get coached for everything. They sound like they either have drive (or acknowledge they need to imptove effort). Teams only get limited exposure to these kids. And Yannetti emphasizes how important it is to get to know them.

Where the Kings fall short, in my opinion, is the rigidity of their process. Not everyone learns and grows the same. But we saw them give Laferriere regular time after putting in the effort, and they didn't paste him on the fourth line for three years. Maybe they're learning? Or adapting? I'm not sure.

I just think, in my heart of hearts, Kaliyev's struggles can't be prescribed to organization incompetence all on its own. And each incident SHOULD be looked at a case by case basis. Otherwise, we just assume everything will suck without identifying benchmarks for improvement.

It's like if we were to look at a goalie in net. The team lost 6-2. Three goals were because the goalie couldn't stop a beachball and three goals because the opposing team had multiple 3-on-0 breakaways. Sure, the goalie sucked, but it's dangerous to blame the other three goals on the goalie. Even if you think you solve one issue, you still probably lose the game 3-2 if you don't take an honest look at other aspects that went wrong.
 
pretty insane they traded him, either thought they couldn't re-sign him or his cap hit would be too high for them to be competitive.
 

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