Around the League 2024-25 season

[kovacro]

A bit of data I saw from one of my go to fantasy hockey sites...

Just as a small aside: Arthur Kaliyev had a primary assist on Schneider's goal, and added two shots in 10:38 of ice time. That makes three primary points at 5-on-5 for Kaliyev in eight games since joining the Rangers lineup in less than 87 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time. That works out to over 2.0 points per 60 minutes at 5-on-5 which, over the course of a full season, would be a first-line rate. Just throwing that out there.

 

[ru4reals]

A bit of data I saw from one of my go to fantasy hockey sites...

Just as a small aside: Arthur Kaliyev had a primary assist on Schneider's goal, and added two shots in 10:38 of ice time. That makes three primary points at 5-on-5 for Kaliyev in eight games since joining the Rangers lineup in less than 87 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time. That works out to over 2.0 points per 60 minutes at 5-on-5 which, over the course of a full season, would be a first-line rate. Just throwing that out there.

That's 3 more points than Trevor Lewis in that same span of games. Heck the great Trevor hasn't had a point in 14 games and probably more if he did t miss like a month. *sigh*

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

That's 3 more points than Trevor Lewis in that same span of games. Heck the great Trevor hasn't had a point in 14 games and probably more if he did t miss like a month. *sigh*

It’s just absolutely mind boggling how the Kings have amassed one of the best records without Arthur Kaliyev….

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

That's 3 more points than Trevor Lewis in that same span of games. Heck the great Trevor hasn't had a point in 14 games and probably more if he did t miss like a month. *sigh*

the other interesting note on this....you are basically implying that Kaliyev should have replaced Lewis. Do you know where Lewis plays? Yah, the 4th line. Imagine.....just IMAGINE the uproar on this board if Kaliyev was anchored on the 4th line all year.

 

[tigermask48]

A bit of data I saw from one of my go to fantasy hockey sites...

Just as a small aside: Arthur Kaliyev had a primary assist on Schneider's goal, and added two shots in 10:38 of ice time. That makes three primary points at 5-on-5 for Kaliyev in eight games since joining the Rangers lineup in less than 87 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time. That works out to over 2.0 points per 60 minutes at 5-on-5 which, over the course of a full season, would be a first-line rate. Just throwing that out there.

Lol. Power play specialist

 

[Statto]

the other interesting note on this....you are basically implying that Kaliyev should have replaced Lewis. Do you know where Lewis plays? Yah, the 4th line. Imagine.....just IMAGINE the uproar on this board if Kaliyev was anchored on the 4th line all year

I agree and this year I didn’t see where the appropriate role was for him.

However it does highlight that using him on the 4th line in previous seasons was a best perplexing. It’s too early to get that worked up about it in my view because he may get crash and burn. Equally, he may be a raging success. However, what he has done so far definitely indicates that the Scully has got has been wasted. I’m not saying that’s entirely on the organisation, because we will never know the details of the relationship between the two parties

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree and this year I didn’t see where the appropriate role was for him.

However it does highlight that using him on the 4th line in previous seasons was a best perplexing. It’s too early to get that worked up about it in my view because he may get crash and burn. Equally, he may be a raging success. However, what he has done so far definitely indicates that the Scully has got has been wasted. I’m not saying that’s entirely on the organisation, because we will never know the details of the relationship between the two parties

I am, because they drafted and interviewed him before misusing him

Unless Kaliyev unprovoked went and took a steaming dump on Blake's desk, they have all the responsibility for the stupid f***ing use just like they do with all the other prospects. Kaliyev isn't any different in that regard. It's right from the script--start publicly denigrating the guy, devalue him, let him go. They did it with Gabe and Faber, as well. THat's why I have a hard time with the people blaming Kaliyev here, the organization does not deserve one iota of a shred of a benefit of a doubt.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I agree and this year I didn’t see where the appropriate role was for him.

However it does highlight that using him on the 4th line in previous seasons was a best perplexing. It’s too early to get that worked up about it in my view because he may get crash and burn. Equally, he may be a raging success. However, what he has done so far definitely indicates that the Scully has got has been wasted. I’m not saying that’s entirely on the organisation, because we will never know the details of the relationship between the two parties

I believe that's where NYR are using him...4th line....

I am, because they drafted and interviewed him before misusing him

Unless Kaliyev unprovoked went and took a steaming dump on Blake's desk, they have all the responsibility for the stupid f***ing use just like they do with all the other prospects. Kaliyev isn't any different in that regard. It's right from the script--start publicly denigrating the guy, devalue him, let him go. They did it with Gabe and Faber, as well. THat's why I have a hard time with the people blaming Kaliyev here, the organization does not deserve one iota of a shred of a benefit of a doubt.

Yes, they de-valued Faber.....jesus christ what a hot steaming pile of horseshit comes out of your mouth every time you f***ing talk lately.....

 

[bland]

I am, because they drafted and interviewed him before misusing him

Unless Kaliyev unprovoked went and took a steaming dump on Blake's desk, they have all the responsibility for the stupid f***ing use just like they do with all the other prospects. Kaliyev isn't any different in that regard. It's right from the script--start publicly denigrating the guy, devalue him, let him go. They did it with Gabe and Faber, as well. THat's why I have a hard time with the people blaming Kaliyev here, the organization does not deserve one iota of a shred of a benefit of a doubt.

How did they do this with Vilardi and Faber?

All we know about Vilardi is that they didn't engage in contract talks before dealing him. There wasn't one iota of talk about Faber except for the nonsense spewed by the pod casters.

 

[BaileyFan]

I am, because they drafted and interviewed him before misusing him

Unless Kaliyev unprovoked went and took a steaming dump on Blake's desk, they have all the responsibility for the stupid f***ing use just like they do with all the other prospects. Kaliyev isn't any different in that regard. It's right from the script--start publicly denigrating the guy, devalue him, let him go. They did it with Gabe and Faber, as well. THat's why I have a hard time with the people blaming Kaliyev here, the organization does not deserve one iota of a shred of a benefit of a doubt.

The BLuc lovers did their whole thing against Vilardi and Faber after the fact and it became an accepted part of the narrative of those trades among that part of the fanbase. I don’t think the org itself devalued either player, they just targeted bad pieces that weren’t even better than them in the short term.

 

[King'sPawn]

The BLuc lovers did their whole thing against Vilardi and Faber after the fact and it became an accepted part of the narrative of those trades among that part of the fanbase. I don’t think the org itself devalued either player, they just targeted bad pieces that weren’t even better than them in the short term.

The fundamental point is the org shouldn't be held responsible for what a select fanbase issue does

 

[Maynard]

Tony DeAngelo goes from the KHL to the Islanders. Hope they have a tight room lol.

 

[bland]

A bit of data I saw from one of my go to fantasy hockey sites...

Just as a small aside: Arthur Kaliyev had a primary assist on Schneider's goal, and added two shots in 10:38 of ice time. That makes three primary points at 5-on-5 for Kaliyev in eight games since joining the Rangers lineup in less than 87 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time. That works out to over 2.0 points per 60 minutes at 5-on-5 which, over the course of a full season, would be a first-line rate. Just throwing that out there.

A 30 5x5 point pace for 80 games makes you a first liner, huh?

For reference, he would 9th among Kings and only marginally above Fiala's disastrous season, which would put him right around 10th - or FOURTH LINE NUMBERS.

But oh yeah, theoretical numbers indicate that if he did enough away from the puck to play a bigger role and earn more ice time that he would a first liner - kinda like what the Kings coaching and developmental staff tried to get him to do for 3 years.

 

[BigKing]

How did they do this with Vilardi and Faber?

All we know about Vilardi is that they didn't engage in contract talks before dealing him. There wasn't one iota of talk about Faber except for the nonsense spewed by the pod casters.

There isn't anything straight from Bowlby's mouth, but they did wine and dine him in Minny and attempt to sign him to a contract before the first of the Edmonton playoff losses with Faber refusing. Two months later, he's gone.

I don't recall anything negative from the Org about Vilardi: it's more been from Vilardi about the Org after leaving, right? I don't feel the Org didn't like Vilardi: I just think they were pretty set on selling high--or so they thought--because they were scared of reupping him due to the all the injuries and ups and downs during his time here.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry they didn't LITERALLY come out and say "yeah gabe's a f***ing asshole at practice with a chip on his shoulder" and we aren't even going to engage in contract talks with him because we're so done with him or name the players in Ontario who thought they deserved a shot or that "yeah we're really mad that Faber spurned our contract offer" and that some of us have had conversations with insiders and otherwise and know damn well how they feel about certain things along with all the hints they drop and tone they take over guys.

We've been reading between the lines from these guys for 7 years yet suddenly everyone is defending the organization over the handling of Kaliyev even though he's a symptom not the whole issue. The moment a guy starts getting devalued, look to the move. They don't bother playing even a little bit of poker, their actions and words say a guy is no longer a King.

 

[bland]

There isn't anything straight from Bowlby's mouth, but they did wine and dine him in Minny and attempt to sign him to a contract before the first of the Edmonton playoff losses with Faber refusing. Two months later, he's gone.

I don't recall anything negative from the Org about Vilardi: it's more been from Vilardi about the Org after leaving, right? I don't feel the Org didn't like Vilardi: I just think they were pretty set on selling high--or so they thought--because they were scared of reupping him due to the all the injuries and ups and downs during his time here.

Faber let them know he wanted to stay in school. There were some murmurs about Vilardi not being happy about being sent to Ontario to work on being a RW (which was the most logical thing that they could have done since it has benefitted him in spades).

Neither of those things is "Kaliyev didn't help the team down the stretch", so that comparison is a Knieval-sized leap.

 

[bland]

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry they didn't LITERALLY come out and say "yeah gabe's a f***ing asshole at practice with a chip on his shoulder" and we aren't even going to engage in contract talks with him because we're so done with him or name the players in Ontario who thought they deserved a shot or that "yeah we're really mad that Faber spurned our contract offer" and that some of us have had conversations with insiders and otherwise and know damn well how they feel about certain things along with all the hints they drop and tone they take over guys.

We've been reading between the lines from these guys for 7 years yet suddenly everyone is defending the organization over the handling of Kaliyev even though he's a symptom not the whole issue. The moment a guy starts getting devalued, look to the move. They don't bother playing even a little bit of poker, their actions and words say a guy is no longer a King.

No, you are just taking 2 and 2 and shouting that it comes to 40,000.

These are not similar situations. Vilardi and Faber were moved in terrible decisions to try and improve a team - Kaliyev was cut for quitting on his teammates and letting it be known that he wanted out, and NOBODY would pay a 5th for him.

 

[Schmooley]

I believe that's where NYR are using him...4th line....

No he is on a line with Kreider and Chytil.
He doesnt get the special teams minutes and the end of period minutes like the other guys on his line so his time on ice is less than a normal middle sixer.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

No he is on a line with Kreider and Chytil.
He doesnt get the special teams minutes and the end of period minutes like the other guys on his line so his time on ice is less than a normal middle sixer.

Yea they moved him up, he started out on the 4th...but for a PP specialist, you would think another team would use him on the PP....guess...maybe not

 

[tigermask48]

Remember last year when Blake was using PLDs points/60 to try and salvage his disaster of a trade? I remember. I guess that stat doesn't matter now, huh?

 

[King'sPawn]

No he is on a line with Kreider and Chytil.
He doesnt get the special teams minutes and the end of period minutes like the other guys on his line so his time on ice is less than a normal middle sixer.

Even 5-on-5, he's still getting < 11 minutes. That's Akil Thomas territory in LA.

My guess is it's more to do with getting him comfortable.

There isn't anything straight from Bowlby's mouth, but they did wine and dine him in Minny and attempt to sign him to a contract before the first of the Edmonton playoff losses with Faber refusing. Two months later, he's gone.

Faber spent another year in college after declining to sign. Blake wanted Fiala and had to give value. Sometimes it's just that simple.

There is nobody from any camp, except for rumormongers and fans needing to pretend they "won" the trade by diminishing his value artificially, who has even insinuated he would only sign with the Wild.

Either way, with Kaliyev, I'm ambivalent. I think I said in the prediction thread that I didn't think Kaliyev would play more than 10 games with the Kingsthis season. I think the Kings' rigid developmental decisions the past few years was a disservice to Kaliyev. But Kaliyev does have lingering compete issues where, at this age, he should be better.

You can argue being unmitivated. But ultimately, Kaliyev needs to advocate for himself both on and off the ice. It's not clear what he did off the ice, but he has to shoulder some of the blame for how he did play. It was below his capabilities.

 

[BaileyFan]

Remember last year when Blake was using PLDs points/60 to try and salvage his disaster of a trade? I remember. I guess that stat doesn't matter now, huh?

I remember “his rebounds generated/60 are higher than Auston Matthews!!!”

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Blake is going to make it til the last game of the season/playoffs period. They are not getting by Edmonton and they probably have a 75% chance of getting them in the first round.

He’s gonna add at the TDL

If we don’t advance we are gonna lose Gav in the offseason or overpay him.

We have already lost no matter what happens. It’s either diminished returns or an extended year in the black hole.

 

[tigermask48]

You can argue being unmitivated. But ultimately, Kaliyev needs to advocate for himself both on and off the ice. It's not clear what he did off the ice, but he has to shoulder some of the blame for how he did play. It was below his capabilities.

Are we really going to sit here and argue that Kaliev needs to take responsibility for only putting up 15 points in 51 games (tying Trevor Lewis' total over 82 games) in a largely diminished role, while being in the doghouse/press box half the season?

Can you really look at how he's starting off in New York and honestly say "yeah, clearly Kaliev was the problem"?

 

[AbsentMojo]

Are we really going to sit here and argue that Kaliev needs to take responsibility for only putting up 15 points in 51 games (tying Trevor Lewis' total over 82 games) in a largely diminished role, while being in the doghouse/press box half the season?

Can you really look at how he's starting off in New York and honestly say "yeah, clearly Kaliev was the problem"?

Evidence is starting to pile up that the Kings org is the problem.. its not black and white, but one after the other you see guys thriving in a different circumstance... that happens all the time across the league, players dont fit in somewhwere, but find a better home elsewhere.. with the Kings there is a consistent pattern where if the guy doesnt follow the religion to a T he gradually becomes marginalized. So at the very least, in the Kaliyev case, they drafted a kid that wasnt suited to the style they wanted from a player...its telling that Kopi only had one season at PPG.. he was close several times.. still you can see that blueprint sets the standard for how they want all their players to behave.