Around the League - 2024-2025

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The Shanaplan for the Leafs looked promising. Then along came the playoffs

No one doubts the individual skill of the Leafs’ Core Four of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares. As a group? It’s been a historic playoff letdown.

www.thestar.com

The Beaten Path​

• Playoff failures, higher ticket prices and executive stability have led to frustrated fanbases for the Maple Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays as the franchises become ever more elitist cashboxes.
• Of the 12 cities with pro teams in the NHL, NBA and Major League Baseball, Toronto sits at the bottom with one championship in those sports in the past 20 years.
• The presidents of the Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays have all been in charge of their respective franchises for nearly a decade or more.

 

[Peasy]

The Shanaplan for the Leafs looked promising. Then along came the playoffs

No one doubts the individual skill of the Leafs’ Core Four of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares. As a group? It’s been a historic playoff letdown.

www.thestar.com

The Beaten Path​

• Playoff failures, higher ticket prices and executive stability have led to frustrated fanbases for the Maple Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays as the franchises become ever more elitist cashboxes.
• Of the 12 cities with pro teams in the NHL, NBA and Major League Baseball, Toronto sits at the bottom with one championship in those sports in the past 20 years.
• The presidents of the Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays have all been in charge of their respective franchises for nearly a decade or more.

I wonder what's in the water to make all of us fans such suckers. We reward their incompetence with yearly top revenue (at least for the leafs).

 

[ACC1224]

I wonder what's in the water to make all of us fans such suckers. We reward their incompetence with yearly top revenue (at least for the leafs).

Would they make better decisions if the fans didn't show up?

 

[Peasy]

Would they make better decisions if the fans didn't show up?

I would think it would motivate them a lot more to run a successful organization on the ice, yes. But thats just my opinion.

 

[ACC1224]

I would think it would motivate them a lot more to run a successful organization on the ice, yes. But thats just my opinion.

Not sure I understand how that works. Isn't every move a GM makes geared towards winning?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I wonder what's in the water to make all of us fans such suckers. We reward their incompetence with yearly top revenue (at least for the leafs).

People are hockey crazy (spend crazy) in the GTA. It will never die.

 

[BallardEra]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836020698629767176

 

[3blizzard4]

People are hockey crazy (spend crazy) in the GTA. It will never die.

Leafs are a magnet. Not just the GTA.

Checkout Oilers out of town. They are obsessed with us.

 

[Peasy]

Not sure I understand how that works. Isn't every move a GM makes geared towards winning?

Yes because a GM is the only one involved making moves...

How many GMs have full autonomy over everything regarding running the organization? I'm willing to bet zero do.

This isnt some gotcha like you think it is lol. Doesnt take a genius to realize a GM isnt the only one calling the shots or is in charge of the entire organization and every move they make.

At the end of the day I don't believe Bell and Rogers number 1 goal in mind while owning this team is to try and win at all costs.

Was Bill Armstrong trying to win when the Yotes still existed? I'm sure he did, but was Alex Meruelo doing everything he could to assist in that goal? (no, because he had other agendas)

 

[rumman]

Yes because a GM is the only one involved making moves...

How many GMs have full autonomy over everything regarding running the organization? I'm willing to bet zero do.

This isnt some gotcha like you think it is lol. Doesnt take a genius to realize a GM isnt the only one calling the shots or is in charge of the entire organization and every move they make.

At the end of the day I don't believe Bell and Rogers number 1 goal in mind while owning this team is to try and win at all costs.

Was Bill Armstrong trying to win when the Yotes still existed? I'm sure he did, but was Alex Meruelo doing everything he could to assist in that goal? (no, because he had other agendas)

I’d say even more so with the Leafs, I mean if you look really really close you can almost see the strings attached to Tre. Peddie was JFJ’s puppet master and I fear Shanahan is Tre’s puppet master………

 

[ACC1224]

Yes because a GM is the only one involved making moves...

How many GMs have full autonomy over everything regarding running the organization? I'm willing to bet zero do.

This isnt some gotcha like you think it is lol. Doesnt take a genius to realize a GM isnt the only one calling the shots or is in charge of the entire organization and every move they make.

At the end of the day I don't believe Bell and Rogers number 1 goal in mind while owning this team is to try and win at all costs.

Was Bill Armstrong trying to win when the Yotes still existed? I'm sure he did, but was Alex Meruelo doing everything he could to assist in that goal? (no, because he had other agendas)

I thought you were referring specifically to the Leafs, not all Teams in general. I agree Arizona was more concerned with pinching pennies.

Have there been recent examples of the Leafs not trying to win? Winning earns the most revenue, I don't see how even if you believe money is all that motivates them, why winning still wouldn't be the goal.

Incompetence <> Indifference

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It kills me anyone still thinks Rogers and Bell care about either winning the cup OR how much money this team makes.

They generate income from their cable, wireless, and internet services. Not their pathetic rinky dink hockey team. Even if this team won every year for the next decade it STILL wouldn't generate enough revenue for Rogers and Bell to care.

This team is nothing more than a minor investment to provide content for viewers.

If winning the cup was the objective they've failed in a massive way. Because of a dumb GM, a dumber President, and an even dumber ownership group. But the dumbest of all is me for giving them an audience this whole time.

Indifference breeds incompetence and vice versa.

They don’t care their team is run by an imbecile eunuch GM. They don’t care their POHO is way past his expiration date. They don't care if this team is a winner or a loser.

And they don’t care about you either.

 

[SprDaVE]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836389857943294390

 

[ACC1224]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836389857943294390

Makes sense then pass it to Bedard when Foligno retires in a few years.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Not sure I understand how that works. Isn't every move a GM makes geared towards winning?

*Mind blown*

 

[Fogelhund]

It kills me anyone still thinks Rogers and Bell care about either winning the cup OR how much money this team makes.

They generate income from their cable, wireless, and internet services. Not their pathetic rinky dink hockey team. Even if this team won every year for the next decade it STILL wouldn't generate enough revenue for Rogers and Bell to care.

This team is nothing more than a minor investment to provide content for viewers.

If winning the cup was the objective they've failed in a massive way. Because of a dumb GM, a dumber President, and an even dumber ownership group. But the dumbest of all is me for giving them an audience this whole time.

Indifference breeds incompetence and vice versa.

They don’t care their team is run by an imbecile eunuch GM. They don’t care their POHO is way past his expiration date. They don't care if this team is a winner or a loser.

And they don’t care about you either.

Bell made $4 Billion owning MLSE, and you don't think they care?

Rogers just paid another $4.7 Billion to purchase Bell's share... and you don't think they care about their investment?

The sad, derogatory comments in the rest of this post are pathetic.

 

[Peasy]

Bell made $4 Billion owning MLSE, and you don't think they care?

Rogers just paid another $4.7 Billion to purchase Bell's share... and you don't think they care about their investment?

The sad, derogatory comments in the rest of this post are pathetic.

They made that much money by *check notes* the Leafs having one playoff series win in the past 20 years. Yeah, I don't think they really care that much about winning lol. No matter what this franchise will just rake in money regardless of what happens.

Its kinda funny they FINALLY decided to do a proper rebuild (selling off kessel, really actively trying to tank) once they werent constantly selling out games anymore.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Bell made $4 Billion owning MLSE, and you don't think they care?

Rogers just paid another $4.7 Billion to purchase Bell's share... and you don't think they care about their investment?

The sad, derogatory comments in the rest of this post are pathetic.

Anyone who thinks Rogers and Bell care about the Leafs going far in the playoffs because it will make them more money is wrong.

They're not looking at the bigger picture. Bell generates a whopping $25 BILLION in revenue EVERY YEAR with Rogers coming in at another whopping $15 BILLION. The Leafs generate a piddly $281 million by comparison.

$4B only seems like a lot of money to those with small minds incapable of thinking big.

 

[ULF_55]

Not sure I understand how that works. Isn't every move a GM makes geared towards winning?

Certainly.
I'm sure the Coyotes made every decision geared towards winning within their means.

I thought you were referring specifically to the Leafs, not all Teams in general. I agree Arizona was more concerned with pinching pennies.

Have there been recent examples of the Leafs not trying to win? Winning earns the most revenue, I don't see how even if you believe money is all that motivates them, why winning still wouldn't be the goal.

Incompetence <> Indifference

You asked:

Would they make better decisions if the fans didn't show up?

That's a great question.

If the arena was empty would non-arena revenue be impacted? I know watching empty arena games a couple years ago, wasn't the same. The crowd reaction is part of the entertainment delivery for me. For others maybe they were just as happy with empty arena broadcasts?

So I'm querying whether no fans would impact the revenue stream, beyond the missing fans?

If yes, perhaps the Leafs, without fans are the Coyotes.

 

[Fogelhund]

Anyone who thinks Rogers and Bell care about the Leafs going far in the playoffs because it will make them more money is wrong.

They're not looking at the bigger picture. Bell generates a whopping $25 BILLION in revenue EVERY YEAR with Rogers coming in at another whopping $15 BILLION. The Leafs generate a piddly $281 million by comparison.

$4B only seems like a lot of money to those with small minds incapable of thinking big.

Every corporation, everywhere cares about earning incremental profits, within all of their product lines. That the ROI for Bell and Rogers is nearly 17% annually, suggest that this is a VERY profitable portion for them. Every manager, of every line of business will have targets, and profitability expectations on them, and that includes those in the MLSE department. More revenue, by playing more games, would be of interest.

And yes, a $4 Billion profit, or 21% annualized capital return on their investment, plus say 15% annual revenue return... or around 36% annual total return on investment is a solid return. Where small lines of business don't earn outsized returns for corps, they aren't of relevance. Where you get over 30% ROI, they are indeed of relevance.

As someone who actually works in the Capital Markets, regularly reviewing corporate valuations, and financials, I find your comment amusing.


Most mature people can discuss their like, or disdain of sports figures, without calling them eunuch's, or other pathetic examples of name calling. Immature posting, and name calling such as this devalues this forum.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

It sounds like a deal isn't very close. So the Bruins are going to start the season with Korpisalo as their number one and Bussi or DiPietro as their number 2? Korpisalo gets injured and they are in serious trouble in net. You'd have to think they'd sign a guy like Martin Jones as a backup.

 

[ULF_55]

""

It sounds like a deal isn't very close. So the Bruins are going to start the season with Korpisalo as their number one and DiPietro as their number 2? Korpisalo gets injured and they are in serious trouble in net. You'd have to think they'd sign a guy like Martin Jones as a backup.

Is he subject to offersheet?
Is he really as good as his numbers, or is it a reflection of the team in front of him?

Wouldn't many teams give a 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. for him?

 

[Fogelhund]

Is he subject to offersheet?
Is he really as good as his numbers, or is it a reflection of the team in front of him?

View attachment 907736

Wouldn't many teams give a 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. for him?

The challenge being, not many teams have enough cap space to sign him. Let's call the number $8.5-> 9 mil. The teams with cap space are Detroit, Utah, San Jose, Anaheim, Calgary and Columbus. At the stages of rebuild those teams are, none of them really should be giving away such picks, and most of those teams have a goalie anyway.

Detroit -> Husso
Utah -> Vejmelka
San Jose -> Askarov
Anaheim -> Gibson (Don't have their 2nd)
Columbus -> Merlikins (Also don't have their 2nd)
Calgary -> Clearly have a need, but just starting a rebuild.

 

[ULF_55]

The challenge being, not many teams have enough cap space to sign him. Let's call the number $8.5-> 9 mil. The teams with cap space are Detroit, Utah, San Jose, Anaheim, Calgary and Columbus. At the stages of rebuild those teams are, none of them really should be giving away such picks, and most of those teams have a goalie anyway.

Detroit -> Husso
Utah -> Vejmelka
San Jose -> Askarov
Anaheim -> Gibson (Don't have their 2nd)
Columbus -> Merlikins (Also don't have their 2nd)
Calgary -> Clearly have a need, but just starting a rebuild.

Unless you are giving him term, and at his age max term would make sense.
Now he has to agree.
I thought Husso was an up and comer, but I don't think that holds weight anymore.
We saw during the summer, teams can go retrieve their picks i.e. Blues, for making an offersheet. Bruins don't own and of those 2nd. round picks that are missing.

 

[rumman]

""

It sounds like a deal isn't very close. So the Bruins are going to start the season with Korpisalo as their number one and DiPietro as their number 2? Korpisalo gets injured and they are in serious trouble in net. You'd have to think they'd sign a guy like Martin Jones as a backup.

or snag Murray if he's put on and drops that far in waivers.........