Around the League - 2024-2025

[ULF_55]

FR. His actual cap hit will be like 12m, but his take home cap hit will be something like 12.75

Does anyone expect it to be lower than Nylander's?

Only one I see coming in lower, is Tavares by around $5mm.

 

[Dreakmur]

That's a pretty misleading way to say that Nylander had a higher P/GP by 0.10.

So points per game over the entire length of a contract is how the next contract should be valued?

 

[ULF_55]

So points per game over the entire length of a contract is how the next contract should be valued?

It would be so easy if the league was unionized and everyone just got their annual bumps, and teams were permitted to reward performance, after the season, with a bonus.

Matthews - bonus
Nylander - bonus
Woll - bonus
Benoit - bonus

That's it.

 

[Dreakmur]

Actually, it's what Carolina was gifted from Lou when he knowingly signed a horrific poison pill contract that would have to be moved, and the NHL when they changed the rules after the trade was made.

The need to move that contract was fabricated by prematurely moving the team into a contender phase.

 

[ULF_55]

The need to move that contract was fabricated by prematurely moving the team into a contender phase.

It only turned out to be a mirage team after the fact.

It really looked like Matthews, marner and gang were on the upswing, which they were, just post-season fodder.

Low point has to be the Montreal series, Matthews/marner completely destroyed by Danault. That Tavares lasted about 2 minutes before being concussed didn't hurt Nylander any, as Kerfoot stepped into that role.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander's cap hit may have been 6.9, but the contract he signed was for 7.5.

Two important factors to include:

#1 - The 7th and 8th year really boost the value of this contract. Jarvis will still be getting 7.5 at the ages of 28 and 29, while Nylander just went up to 11.5.
#2 - Nylander signed with a cap limit of just 79.5. Even his 6.9 cap hit is a higher percentage than Jarvis' 7.5 on an 88.0 cap.



Two questions:

#1 - You don't think the final year of an entry level deal is much more important than the previous year? What about the first year then, why not count that too? Over their entire ELCs, Jarvis scored 16 more goals and11 more points than Nylander.

#2 - Does that logic also apply to Nylander's current contract? We just paid Nylander 11.5 million because he scored 98 points.... but he averaged less than 79 points per 82 games in the last 5 years of that contract, and less than 74 points per 82 if you count all 6 years.

1. Cap hit is all that matters.

#1. No... a player establishing that they are consistently productive, probably out weighs a one season outlier. Jarvis is 0.63 PPG career. At the time Nylander signed his contract he was 0.73 PPG.
#2 I'm not a fan of Nylander's contract... we overpaid him this time. I thought he was right on market the first time. I get why he demanded it though... he wasn't overpaid on the first one, Marner most certainly was... in my mind by about $1.5-2 and Matthews maybe $0.5 Why should Nylander take market when nobody else had? Also, they'd just signed Matthews to a non-discount, so they screwed themselves. It's just bad precedent, after bad precedent.

 

[ULF_55]

1. Cap hit is all that matters.

#1. No... a player establishing that they are consistently productive, probably out weighs a one season outlier. Jarvis is 0.63 PPG career. At the time Nylander signed his contract he was 0.73 PPG.
#2 I'm not a fan of Nylander's contract... we overpaid him this time. I thought he was right on market the first time. I get why he demanded it though... he wasn't overpaid on the first one, Marner most certainly was... in my mind by about $1.5-2 and Matthews maybe $0.5 Why should Nylander take market when nobody else had? Also, they'd just signed Matthews to a non-discount, so they screwed themselves. It's just bad precedent, after bad precedent.

While I enjoy Nylander more than most of the players, just can't fathom how he got that deal, other than "I fought last time to get market rate, and acquiesced at the last minute, while the other 2 got gifted without a fight. Not this time."

I thought it would get to double digits, but perhaps going full term is what pushed it up. Matthews had already taken Treliving to the cleaners on a short term deal, maybe the extra $1.5ish was for going 8 years?

 

[Dreakmur]

1. Cap hit is all that matters.

Unless using cap percentage is beneficial to an argument, then that’s all that matters?

Also, what about the cap hit in years 7 and 8? Jarvis will be at his absolute peak and still taking up just 7.5.

#1. No... a player establishing that they are consistently productive, probably out weighs a one season outlier. Jarvis is 0.63 PPG career. At the time Nylander signed his contract he was 0.73 PPG.

Call me crazy, but I think an ELC player should get better every year, and that the final year of his contract is by far the most indicative of the player he is.

 

[Dreakmur]

It only turned out to be a mirage team after the fact.

It really looked like Matthews, marner and gang were on the upswing, which they were, just post-season fodder.

A handful of elite players on the upswing doesn’t make a contender.

 

[Sypher04]

Nylander's cap hit may have been 6.9, but the contract he signed was for 7.5.

No, it wasn’t. He made 6.9 every year of the deal. The cap being higher in year 1 is of no consequence. He made no additional money.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is what Carolina was gifted from Dubas by taking the last year of the Marleau deal off of Leafs hands.

Leafs get $5.6 mil cap relief for 1 year and Canes get a young player locked in long-term.

It sure sucks doesn't it. Especially if Jarvis ends up being a full time C... which he isn't yet, but should be. He'd be exactly what we need right now.

 

[Fogelhund]

Unless using cap percentage is beneficial to an argument, then that’s all that matters?

Also, what about the cap hit in years 7 and 8? Jarvis will be at his absolute peak and still taking up just 7.5.



Call me crazy, but I think an ELC player should get better every year, and that the final year of his contract is by far the most indicative of the player he is.

Cap hit, not dollars paid in a particular year are all that matter.
When comparing contracts over time, yes Cap percentage takes precedent.

Nylander's cap percentage was 8.757%
Jarvis cap percentage is 8.9%

It's a good contract for Carolina, especially if his game continues to grow. If it does, that years 7 and 8 will be a steal, no doubt. Yes, you hope young players games get better and better every year... such as when Nylander had 61 points in year 2, was a -3, improved his overall game, while maintaining the same points and was a +20... +- has it's flaws, but Nylander's game certainly did grow.

We've also seen many cases where you pay a player based on one year, and later regret it. Nylander for example seems to have received a pay boost based on last years jump in production early on... to me, that's a mistake, and I'd rather look at the bigger body of work, than a few numbers that are outside the norm. Maybe that is Nylander for the body of the contract, and it's ok... maybe we regret it... we will find out either way.

At the end of the day... being argumentative, for the purpose of being argumentative over a long weekend is pointless. Go out and enjoy what's left of summer.

 

[ULF_55]

It sure sucks doesn't it. Especially if Jarvis ends up being a full time C... which he isn't yet, but should be. He'd be exactly what we need right now.

Probably happens to most teams, a trade that isn't balanced.

We'll have to wait and see how the Sandin for Cowan turns out.

 

[ULF_55]

A handful of elite players on the upswing doesn’t make a contender.

I don't think they thought getting Tavares would win them the Cup with 3 players 22 and under leading the way.

Adding Tavares for 7 years, wasn't for immediately winning the Cup.

It took years for them to prove the team is still far away, and this is after veterans Matthews and marner proved they weren't enough to carry an undermanned bottom 6.

At this point, it is their drafting that is key, and perhaps coaching.

If they haven't been able to draft middle 6 forwards, there is little hope.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So points per game over the entire length of a contract is how the next contract should be valued?

Points per game over an ELC is certainly more relevant than raw points over an ELC.

The need to move that contract was fabricated by prematurely moving the team into a contender phase.

Lou moved us into a competitive phase before he signed that horrific contract that he knew at the time would have to be moved when the star ELCs ended.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

What a trade by Kyle Dumbas to just give away Jarvis to the Canes for the privilege of overpaying our loser core.

Hard to believe people still clamor for this guy here.

 

[ToneDog]

What a trade by Kyle Dumbas to just give away Jarvis to the Canes for the privilege of overpaying our loser core.

Hard to believe people still clamor for this guy here.

Would not have been as bad if the overpaid loser core stepped up and did not blow a 3-1 series lead to a lousy Habs team.

 

[ULF_55]

What a trade by Kyle Dumbas to just give away Jarvis to the Canes for the privilege of overpaying our loser core.

Hard to believe people still clamor for this guy here.

Actually, Leafs gave them the draft pick, 'Canes are the ones who chose wisely.

 

[Americanadian]

Actually, Leafs gave them the draft pick, 'Canes are the ones who chose wisely.


View attachment 904482

Pretty deep draft in retrospect.

 

[ToneDog]

Actually, Leafs gave them the draft pick, 'Canes are the ones who chose wisely.


View attachment 904482

It's fine. The two guys Dubas would have taken with that first, were drafted in the second and third rounds anyway. LOL.

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty deep draft in retrospect.

And Amirov ... with respect.

 

[ToneDog]

Pretty deep draft in retrospect.

Total games played by the 12 Leafs draft picks. Zero. RIP Amirov.

 

[ULF_55]

Total games played by the 12 Leafs draft picks. Zero. RIP Amirov.

Leafs Amirov ...

At this point many teams haven't shown a great deal, other than 1st. rounders.
Funny that even a bottom feeder like Detroit hasn't auditioned their guys?

Dallas:

Detroit:

Edmonton:

...
Tampa:

Misc:

 

[andora]

The need to move that contract was fabricated by prematurely moving the team into a contender phase.

Oh no!

 

[BrannigansLaw]

The need to move that contract was fabricated by prematurely moving the team into a contender phase.

Contenders don’t go 1-8 in series wins. This team ain’t no contender and never really was.