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GDT: Around the League 2020-21 v24

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K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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Oilhawks said:
It’s actually shocking how confident the Flames are in their team and Treliving (who’s laid a turd this offseason), but then I remember they’re Flames fans so are delusional by design. It doesn’t help that there are still some pundits that think the same (though many more think they are likely to miss the playoffs than usual, at least).

This is some simping from Yaremchuk on OilersNation:

“The big move that the Flames made was going out and signing two-time Stanley Cup Champion Blake Coleman. That will help their offence, which finished 22nd in the league in goals for last season. I really liked that move.

They lost Captain Mark Giordano in the expansion draft, which left a massive hole in their organization both on and off the ice. They did bring in young, tough, left-shot defenseman Nikita Zadorov to help round out their blueline and honestly, I still like the group they have even without Giordano. They aren’t as good, but it isn’t a weakness.

Their success this season really hinges on Jakub Markstrom. If his save percentage can jump back to around the .918 mark that it was at in his last season with the Canucks, it will go a long way in turning the Flames back into a playoff contender.

They will be an interesting team to watch in their first full season back under Darryll Sutter.”

Apparently Blake Coleman with his Career High 36 points is going to have a major impact on a team that was 22nd for goals for, adding Nikita Zadorov for their actual 1D, praying that Markstrom bounces back to his peak form (without Ian Clark to hold his hand) and some Royal Tyrell dinosaur Sutter magic will make all of the difference.
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The fact that they are all belly laughing at the Hyman deal, but happy with Coleman shows how deep their delusion is.

In what planet is Hyman an overpay, but Coleman at a year less and $600k/season less isn't? Hyman is way more player than Coleman is.

Oiler media always pumping the Flames tires drives me mental. Stauffer always cheering them on and going out of his way to praise them (he was one of the many morons touting the Flames defense as the best year over year) is incredibly annoying.

Don't tell this to anyone on the main boards, but the mocking of "LOL you're in cap HELL!!!" is just so mind numbing I don't even know where to begin. Besides the point that it isn't really even that true if you have knowledge of the cap outlook, I just don't know what the point of the argument is. Would it be better if the Oilers did nothing, but had cap room? I just don't get it.

If the Oilers avoided all these deals that the main board morons are laughing at, we would surely be getting roasted about wasting the McDavid years and not improving. There's one thread about how Holland is an idiot for not trading 1sts to go for it, but then another one about how he's an idiot for putting the team in "cap hell" by making moves to improve the team. I'm really not sure what the Oilers are supposed to be doing lol.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

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Feb 19, 2003
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5 Mins 4 Ftg said:


Olympics look like they may not be happening.
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The NHL and its players are 'partners' in the league's success. That includes sharing associated risks and not simply the good stuff of revenue and profitability. I'm a bit loath to support ownership within a league that colluded in its past with an unscrupulous players association, but, the global pandemic shifted all of the fiscal jeopardy onto the owners. They carry a billion dollar IOU from the players having absorbed all of the financial collapse of the past two years.

Bending and twisting the league schedule to accommodate the Olympics has always been a substantial concession along with putting the elite of their million dollars workforce at risk of non-league related injury. Seems a bit reasonable, all things considered, to have the NHLPA and its players bear some financial cost/skin in the game to disrupt the primary golden goose NHL cartel's precarious road to financial recovery with covid still lingering.

I love the spirit of the Olympics games but have a low opinion of the IOC.
 
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Oilhawks

Oilhawks

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K1984 said:
The fact that they are all belly laughing at the Hyman deal, but happy with Coleman shows how deep their delusion is.

In what planet is Hyman an overpay, but Coleman at a year less and $600k/season less isn't? Hyman is way more player than Coleman is.

Oiler media always pumping the Flames tires drives me mental. Stauffer always cheering them on and going out of his way to praise them (he was one of the many morons touting the Flames defense as the best year over year) is incredibly annoying.

Don't tell this to anyone on the main boards, but the mocking of "LOL you're in cap HELL!!!" is just so mind numbing I don't even know where to begin. Besides the point that it isn't really even that true if you have knowledge of the cap outlook, I just don't know what the point of the argument is. Would it be better if the Oilers did nothing, but had cap room? I just don't get it.

If the Oilers avoided all these deals that the main board morons are laughing at, we would surely be getting roasted about wasting the McDavid years and not improving. There's one thread about how Holland is an idiot for not trading 1sts to go for it, but then another one about how he's an idiot for putting the team in "cap hell" by making moves to improve the team. I'm really not sure what the Oilers are supposed to be doing lol.
Click to expand...

To add to the Hyman vs Coleman debate, not only has Hyman shown he can play (very well) in the top 6 and even drive a 3rd line whereas Coleman has really only been a 3rd liner, the focus on Hyman’s age is ridiculous considering Coleman is actually almost a year older, also plays a hard game and yet you don’t really hear anything about it.

Why?
 
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K1984

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Oilhawks said:
To add to the Hyman vs Coleman debate, not only has Hyman shown he can play (very well) in the top 6 and even drive a 3rd line whereas Coleman has really only been a 3rd liner, the focus on Hyman’s age is ridiculous considering Coleman is actually almost a year older, also plays a hard game and yet you don’t really hear anything about it.

Why?
Click to expand...

Because any move the Flames make is considered shrewd and literally anything the Oilers do gets second guessed and twisted to the negative.

Could also be that the Flames are absolutely irrelevant and the Oilers aren't, so our moves get more attention.
 
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oobga

oobga

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Aug 1, 2003
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5 Mins 4 Ftg said:


That’s a massive downgrade in supporting cast talent along with an injury plagued starting goalie.
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Definitely agree. Saad and Donskoi were 2 of the few guys that consistently did stuff against Vegas while the best leader and gamer in NHL history was napping. Their depth took a huge hit. Wonder if they will ever break that top line up.
 
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Delicious Pancakes

Delicious Pancakes

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Oilhawks said:
To add to the Hyman vs Coleman debate, not only has Hyman shown he can play (very well) in the top 6 and even drive a 3rd line whereas Coleman has really only been a 3rd liner, the focus on Hyman’s age is ridiculous considering Coleman is actually almost a year older, also plays a hard game and yet you don’t really hear anything about it.

Why?
Click to expand...

Yeah it'll be interesting to see the EVGF% for both Hyman and Coleman this coming year. Coleman was +14 in EV goal differential playing 12:53/game at EV (60.3%), whereas Hyman was +22 in EV goal differential playing 15:54/game at EV (66.2 EVGF%). Hyman is going to be stepping into a similar situation in Edmonton but Coleman is presumably going to be stepping up a weight class in Calgary competition-wise. Can Coleman maintain that level playing more minutes?

In 2018-19 and 2019-20 during which Coleman scored the second most goals for New Jersey with 43 (Palmieri was first over that span with 52 goals) Coleman only had a 42.6 EVGF%, and albeit that was on a bad Devils team it put him middle of the pack on that team. So was Coleman elevated by his teammates playing in Tampa, or brought down by his teammates playing in New Jersey, or both? Either way the Flames are looking at a player who probably puts up 20 goals next year. Is that worth $4.9M? It's not a terrible AAV, the value looks like it's probably in the right range on paper but other players making that amount are usually playing more minutes against tougher competition than Coleman so if he struggles with the tougher minutes it won't be good. Calgary has enough average middle 6 producers that he shouldn't be playing with poor quality of teammates but any Flames fans expecting Coleman to come in and score more than 25 goals for the Flames is setting themselves up to be disappointed.

Edit: Comparatively, Hyman can come in, do what he does working hard and digging pucks out for McDavid and Draisaitl and you can conservatively pencil him in for 25 goals, plus he's used to playing those minutes already. So for $600k more the Oilers are likely getting considerably more bang for their buck production-wise. The question for both is when does that regression start to happen.

Coleman is 5'11" and 200 lbs. and had 109 hits last year (2nd among Tampa forwards), and 391 hits in 135 GP for the Devils 2018-2020 (1st for Devils forwards by a mile) whereas Hyman at 6'1" and 211 lbs. had 69 hits last year (1st among Leafs forwards) and 154 hits in 122 GP from 2018-2020 (3rd among Leaf forwards). Personally, I'm going to bank on the bigger guy who hits less having more longevity. I appreciate Coleman's game but him covering the bet on a long term deal and being effective the way he plays, despite being great for Sutter's system, is a considerable gamble.
 
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Drivesaitl

Drivesaitl

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oobga said:
Definitely agree. Saad and Donskoi were 2 of the few guys that consistently did stuff against Vegas while the best leader and gamer in NHL history was napping. Their depth took a huge hit. Wonder if they will ever break that top line up.
Click to expand...

Donskoi may look busy, he will almost always disappoint considering the premium looks he usually gets on teams. I mean this guy is near 30 and at this point tops out around 30pts even on topsix and PP rotation. Just not much finish at all. A busy player that gets little done.

Saad and Grubauer are the real losses.
 

Whyme

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Nov 3, 2019
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Jimmi McJenkins said:


Good news everyone
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I'm not against vaccines but I don't think anyone should be forced to take this one. I know two people who got pretty serious side effects from these vaccines and there's been even lots of deaths reported as side effects. Here in Finland we also remember the previous time a vaccine came to the market hastily, it took almost a year for narcolepsy cases to come public and longer to realize what the extent was. The biggest disappointment and maybe a lesson was to see how the government avoided their responsobility as long as possible and the hundreds of victims had to go through lengthy court processes.

Again I emphasize I'm not against vaccines in general and these covid vaccines are obviously a recommended option for at least people in the risk groups. They seem to do a pretty good a job in protecting from the most serious forms but much less with protecting from the virus and thus spreading it.
 
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Whyme

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Nov 3, 2019
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Jimmi McJenkins said:
I guess, but it's still an active pandemic that's still just actively killing people.
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It's hard to comment this as I don't want to sound like I'm playing down the virus or against vaccines. In fact I'm taking this very seriously, but at the same time feel things should be talked as they are.

You never know how the virus hits you, but certain groups are statistically much safer than others and for them the choice between vaccine or no vaccine can be very difficult. Some have maybe had a serious reaction to other vaccines and some may have scary examples of side effects close to them (like I happen to do), but they basically have no choice if they want to continue their profession.
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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Delicious Pancakes said:
Yeah it'll be interesting to see the EVGF% for both Hyman and Coleman this coming year. Coleman was +14 in EV goal differential playing 12:53/game at EV (60.3%), whereas Hyman was +22 in EV goal differential playing 15:54/game at EV (66.2 EVGF%). Hyman is going to be stepping into a similar situation in Edmonton but Coleman is presumably going to be stepping up a weight class in Calgary competition-wise. Can Coleman maintain that level playing more minutes?

In 2018-19 and 2019-20 during which Coleman scored the second most goals for New Jersey with 43 (Palmieri was first over that span with 52 goals) Coleman only had a 42.6 EVGF%, and albeit that was on a bad Devils team it put him middle of the pack on that team. So was Coleman elevated by his teammates playing in Tampa, or brought down by his teammates playing in New Jersey, or both? Either way the Flames are looking at a player who probably puts up 20 goals next year. Is that worth $4.9M? It's not a terrible AAV, the value looks like it's probably in the right range on paper but other players making that amount are usually playing more minutes against tougher competition than Coleman so if he struggles with the tougher minutes it won't be good. Calgary has enough average middle 6 producers that he shouldn't be playing with poor quality of teammates but any Flames fans expecting Coleman to come in and score more than 25 goals for the Flames is setting themselves up to be disappointed.

Edit: Comparatively, Hyman can come in, do what he does working hard and digging pucks out for McDavid and Draisaitl and you can conservatively pencil him in for 25 goals, plus he's used to playing those minutes already. So for $600k more the Oilers are likely getting considerably more bang for their buck production-wise. The question for both is when does that regression start to happen.

Coleman is 5'11" and 200 lbs. and had 109 hits last year (2nd among Tampa forwards), and 391 hits in 135 GP for the Devils 2018-2020 (1st for Devils forwards by a mile) whereas Hyman at 6'1" and 211 lbs. had 69 hits last year (1st among Leafs forwards) and 154 hits in 122 GP from 2018-2020 (3rd among Leaf forwards). Personally, I'm going to bank on the bigger guy who hits less having more longevity. I appreciate Coleman's game but him covering the bet on a long term deal and being effective the way he plays, despite being great for Sutter's system, is a considerable gamble.
Click to expand...

Good analysis.

Hyman is also noted as a line driver up and down the lineup. In the 3 game Leaf horror show sweep of the Oilers Hyman was their best player and kicking the Oiler's dicks in playing alongside Mikhayev and Engvall. Those two are decent in their own right, but Hyman was driving the bus. Matthews may as well have not been playing in those games.

Can't wait to have a player that can play with McDavid, but can go down to the third line to add some juice there if needed if the mix is stagnant. McDavid can still score with someone else in the interim while Hyman adds something down the lineup.

Coleman can do none of those things, but he gets paid $600k less, so LOL DUMB HOLLAND LOL!!!!
 
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bellagiobob

bellagiobob

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Wonder if the schedule will be changed if players don’t go to the Olympics. Currently have a break in the schedule from Feb 7 - 22.

Edit: Just read that a revised schedule would be done.
 
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