Armchair GM Thread

[MrJoshua]

Personally I’m expecting Bruno to be gone shortly, but that’s based on my belief that his system sounds good but doesn’t really work. Even if we’re entering a transitional year without high expectations, I think you want a coach that uses a more teachable system so you can get a real idea of how good your players are instead of wondering if they’re bad or just don’t understand the system.

 

[herzausstein]

now THAT is a June 8th post

Idk trading anyone over 26 seems pretty extreme even for a June 8th post . We normally start a little more sane at like 32.

Edit: after looking through our roster ages, the distinction between 26 and 32 is just forsberg, saros, Hague, perbix, and annunen. Forsberg will be 32 this fall as well so i guess the distinction between the two is really minimal. We really dont have alot of high end talent in their peak years at the moment. Everyone else is either younger than 26 or older than 32.

 

[HockeyFan111]

If they move on from Bruno id like to see them look at Todd Nelson. Especially if they look to get a younger roster

 

[hido]

Is Karl Taylor just a no go for most of you or would you like to see him get a shot? If it’s a hard no, I’d love to hear why. I’ll hang up and listen!

 

[101st_fan]

I get where you are coming from. A system more in line with the players we have would probably get us into the playoffs. Defenders doing defense, better goalie management, and some continued progression from the youth would go a long ways.

I still view this team as having some major holes coming that wont get plugged via free agency. We have no clear 1C after RoR (unless Wood performs), no clear 1D (or even 2D) after Josi, and goaltending has been spotty the entire Bruno experiment. Skjei may play better with a real defensive setup but our rhd group is weak for the foreseeable future. I see it as more of an inevitability so the question i wrestle with is do you go ahead and dive in or do you try to ease into it. We can make the playoffs as long as RoR and Josi perform as 1C/1D after that is a major question mark that relies heavily on someone in the propsect pool stepping up. I personally think one of Wood, Martin might be good for 1C down the road. Won't be a MacKinnon production wise but still 1C quality. On defense.... we are years away from Reid, Gibson, Molendyk being 1D (if they ever get there).

There are definitely holes in the pipeline but tanking doesn't necessarily fix things. How is that working for the Hawks? Wings? How many years did the Sabres languish? The Oilers sucked for over a decade with world class talent. The Sharks are still trying to turn the corner. The Habs did the quick turn but that was a mix of top 5 picks and aggressive moves in the market.

We have to hope that MacFarland is able to find top talent outside of the top ten picks. We need him to be smart with trades ... sometimes moving the best talent to get the right talent is needed (let HF rant after) ... then he has to find the right pieces in the FA market.


Bruno managed to win with Florida ... but that was a stacked roster. Maybe if the front office held him to standards and front office issued policy which Trotz never did. I personally want him gone but I don't get.a vote.

 

[HockeyFan111]

Brock Faber was the 7th rated prospect for la at the time of the trade which included a 1st rounder going to Minnesota for fiala who was coming off an 85 point season. All these hind sighted people thinking that was a horrible trade because of what Faber has became. Faber could of just of likely turn into Branstrom for Ottawa. Blake had some questionable moves and like someone else said his problem was trying to compete and making competing moves before the team was ready

 

[HockeyFan111]

There are definitely holes in the pipeline but tanking doesn't necessarily fix things. How is that working for the Hawks? Wings? How many years did the Sabres languish? The Oilers sucked for over a decade with world class talent. The Sharks are still trying to turn the corner. The Habs did the quick turn but that was a mix of top 5 picks and aggressive moves in the market.

We have to hope that MacFarland is able to find top talent outside of the top ten picks. We need him to be smart with trades ... sometimes moving the best talent to get the right talent is needed (let HF rant after) ... then he has to find the right pieces in the FA market.


Bruno managed to win with Florida ... but that was a stacked roster. Maybe if the front office held him to standards and front office issued policy which Trotz never did. I personally want him gone but I don't get.a vote.

Tanking for top picks is usually how you get star players but not necessarily the only way. You have to have a very good development staff which nashville doesn't currently have and have some good drafts. Kemell was a pick i was excited about but our development or lack there of has stunted his growth. You can say that about so many other players we drafted

 

[herzausstein]

There are definitely holes in the pipeline but tanking doesn't necessarily fix things. How is that working for the Hawks? Wings? How many years did the Sabres languish? The Oilers sucked for over a decade with world class talent. The Sharks are still trying to turn the corner. The Habs did the quick turn but that was a mix of top 5 picks and aggressive moves in the market.

We have to hope that MacFarland is able to find top talent outside of the top ten picks. We need him to be smart with trades ... sometimes moving the best talent to get the right talent is needed (let HF rant after) ... then he has to find the right pieces in the FA market.


Bruno managed to win with Florida ... but that was a stacked roster. Maybe if the front office held him to standards and front office issued policy which Trotz never did. I personally want him gone but I don't get.a vote.

Delicate balance for sure. Cut too deep and you risk the perpetual suck, dont cut at all and you run a risk of never getting those star players that all cup teams have unless you are ruthless in the trade market.

With the roster as currently constructed, we were 9 points out of bottom 3 finish. Stamkos had 10 game winning goals. Theoretically, you trade him and you are a bottom 5 team unless his replacement can net 6 of those 10 goals. That isnt much of a talent purge from the team and bettering the odds of getting top end talent in the draft.

Id still like to think he could work the trade lines and get some younger talent with high end potential or do a better job drafting out of the top 10 but it isnt like we need to cut deep to be slightly worse than we are. Trade a josi and this teams defense is garbage. Wait 2 seasons and this teams defense is garbage. Etc. This team is mediocre on the edge of bad.

 

[101st_fan]

How many players drafted in the top ten since 2000 won a Cup with their team? 20ish?

Pitt and Chicago have clusters of early picks that won a Cup in the early cap years. Then there are players like Ovie with 14 years between draft and Cup. Or the Oilers with a span of seven drafts where they didn't draft outside the top 7, four #1 overall picks, and haven't turned that into a championship ... with the end of that draft span a decade ago. Pietrangelo was a decade between pick and Cup.

 

[Predsanddead24]

How many players drafted in the top ten since 2000 won a Cup with their team? 20ish?

Conversely, 15 out of the last 17 teams to win a Cup have had a top five pick they selected as one of their star players. The exceptions being Vegas which is a unique situation and Boston. Picking in the top ten doesn't guarantee success but it's seemingly almost always a requirement in recent history.

 

[101st_fan]

Conversely, 15 out of the last 17 teams to win a Cup have had a top five pick they selected as one of their star players. The exceptions being Vegas which is a unique situation and Boston. Picking in the top ten doesn't guarantee success but it's seemingly almost always a requirement in recent history.

Two of those are Florida and Tampa ... a decade from Ekblad to a Cup. Tampa with 11 years from the Hedman to the Cup. Is it those picks or the moves in the subsequent years bringing in former early picks of other teams?

 

[Predsanddead24]

Two of those are Florida ... a decade from Ekblad to a Cup. Tampa with 11 years from the Hedman to the Cup. Is it those picks or the moves in the subsequent years bringing in former early picks of other teams?

Barkov for Florida too. Also, It doesn't seem that insane to me that it would take around 10 years to go from drafting high to winning a Cup either. If you draft someone at 18 that's when they'll be in their prime. Obviously you still have to build around the guys you pick and you can win without drafting a star in the top five. However, it's also just a fact that after this year each of the last 15 teams to win the Cup will have had a top five pick as a key contributor or have been Vegas which isn't really a replicable model to follow.

 

[Armourboy]

Brock Faber was the 7th rated prospect for la at the time of the trade which included a 1st rounder going to Minnesota for fiala who was coming off an 85 point season. All these hind sighted people thinking that was a horrible trade because of what Faber has became. Faber could of just of likely turn into Branstrom for Ottawa. Blake had some questionable moves and like someone else said his problem was trying to compete and making competing moves before the team was ready

That's part of your job as a GM is to be able to see where your players are headed in the future. If you can't nail that then you have no business drafting anyone.

 

[herzausstein]

Conversely, 15 out of the last 17 teams to win a Cup have had a top five pick they selected as one of their star players. The exceptions being Vegas which is a unique situation and Boston. Picking in the top ten doesn't guarantee success but it's seemingly almost always a requirement in recent history.

Only one team a year wins the cup vs 10 teams in a top 10 pick. Last 5 cup finals, vegas is the only team that doesnt have a player they drafted in the top 5. Vegas has worked to acquire top 5 pick talent in their prime though.

Panthers x3 - ekblad, barkov
Oilers x2 - mcdavid, draisaitl
Avs x1- MacKinnon, landeskog, makar
Lightning x1 - stamkos, hedman
Carolina x1- Svechnikov
VGK x2 - *eichel, *marner

This years conference finals, Avs, VGK, Car, MTL

MTL - Slaf, Demi

Top talent is typically found at the very top of the draft. You either trade for it with a high acquisition cost or you draft it yourself. Typically you have to draft it yourself. You still have to draft decent outside of the top 10 or do good trades but there is a pretty clear correlation in these last 5 finals and having been bad enough for a top 5 pick for atleast 1 season. Even our finals appearance came after having a top 5 pick. Granted we used that top 5 pick as a trade for a different top 5 pick but without Jones there is no RyJo. Without RyJo there likely isnt a cup final.

 

[triggrman]

Only one team a year wins the cup vs 10 teams in a top 10 pick. Last 5 cup finals, vegas is the only team that doesnt have a player they drafted in the top 5. Vegas has worked to acquire top 5 pick talent in their prime though.

Panthers x3 - ekblad, barkov
Oilers x2 - mcdavid, draisaitl
Avs x1- MacKinnon, landeskog, makar
Lightning x1 - stamkos, hedman
Carolina x1- Svechnikov
VGK x2 - *eichel, *marner

This years conference finals, Avs, VGK, Car, MTL

MTL - Slaf, Demi

Top talent is typically found at the very top of the draft. You either trade for it with a high acquisition cost or you draft it yourself. Typically you have to draft it yourself. You still have to draft decent outside of the top 10 or do good trades but there is a pretty clear correlation in these last 5 finals and having been bad enough for a top 5 pick for atleast 1 season. Even our finals appearance came after having a top 5 pick. Granted we used that top 5 pick as a trade for a different top 5 pick but without Jones there is no RyJo. Without RyJo there likely isnt a cup final.

So next year Preds will have Brady Martin and Stamkos, give us the cup.

 

[101st_fan]

Barkov for Florida too. Also, It doesn't seem that insane to me that it would take around 10 years to go from drafting high to winning a Cup either. If you draft someone at 18 that's when they'll be in their prime. Obviously you still have to build around the guys you pick and you can win without drafting a star in the top five. However, it's also just a fact that after this year each of the last 15 teams to win the Cup will have had a top five pick as a key contributor or have been Vegas which isn't really a replicable model to follow.

Barkov was a year earlier. Stammer was a year before Hedman. Going with those picks creates an even longer timeline between early pick and success for the less than 10% of top ten picks that win a Cup with their draft team. It was a dozen years between Backstrom and the Caps Cup .... Alzner was an early pick who played in the regular season for the Caps but not in the post season and who doesn't appear in silver.

Then there are the likes of Kadri, Reinhart, Bennett, Eichel .... early picks who left their draft team while their draft team remains without a championship.

So suck for a few years and hope to win a Cup in a decade? Or suck for a decade and hope to win a Cup a decade after that? I just want to make sure I understand.

 

[101st_fan]

Only one team a year wins the cup vs 10 teams in a top 10 pick. Last 5 cup finals, vegas is the only team that doesnt have a player they drafted in the top 5. Vegas has worked to acquire top 5 pick talent in their prime though.

Panthers x3 - ekblad, barkov
Oilers x2 - mcdavid, draisaitl
Avs x1- MacKinnon, landeskog, makar
Lightning x1 - stamkos, hedman
Carolina x1- Svechnikov
VGK x2 - *eichel, *marner

This years conference finals, Avs, VGK, Car, MTL

MTL - Slaf, Demi

Top talent is typically found at the very top of the draft. You either trade for it with a high acquisition cost or you draft it yourself. Typically you have to draft it yourself. You still have to draft decent outside of the top 10 or do good trades but there is a pretty clear correlation in these last 5 finals and having been bad enough for a top 5 pick for atleast 1 season. Even our finals appearance came after having a top 5 pick. Granted we used that top 5 pick as a trade for a different top 5 pick but without Jones there is no RyJo. Without RyJo there likely isnt a cup final.

You forgot Byram from Colorado's 2022 roster.

Panthers had a decade of Zito moves to build a roster with the likes of other team's top ten picks such as Bennett and Reinhart.

22 players drafted as a top ten pick since the Preds entered the leauge won a Cup with their draft team.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Barkov was a year earlier. Stammer was a year before Hedman. Going with those picks creates an even longer timeline between early pick and success for the less than 10% of top ten picks that win a Cup with their draft team. It was a dozen years between Backstrom and the Caps Cup .... Alzner was an early pick who played in the regular season for the Caps but not in the post season and who doesn't appear in silver.

Then there are the likes of Kadri, Reinhart, Bennett, Eichel .... early picks who left their draft team while their draft team remains without a championship.

So suck for a few years and hope to win a Cup in a decade? Or suck for a decade and hope to win a Cup a decade after that? I just want to make sure I understand.

Sorry I'm not even following what point you're trying to make. I'm just stating a simple fact that with the exception of an expansion team that every team for the last 15 years has had a top five pick they selected as a key part of their roster. No one said top five picks guarantee you a Cup but recent history suggests you do need to have one to win one regardless of how long the timeline from suck to Cup is.

 

[herzausstein]

You forgot Byram from Colorado's 2022 roster.

Panthers had a decade of Zito moves to build a roster with the likes of other team's top ten picks such as Bennett and Reinhart.

22 players drafted as a top ten pick since the Preds entered the leauge won a Cup with their draft team.

IThe top 10 talent helps to push the team over the hump to make it. GM still has to build a cohesive team and hire a good coach but right now playoff scoring is led by top 10 pick talent. Even this series you see their influence. Ehlers, Marner, Eichel, etc. Yeh having a top 10 pick doesnt grant you a cup but this season only 1 team without their own top 5 draftpick even made the conference finals. The past 10+ years have shown that unless you can trade like Vegas you need a top 5 pick to build around

 

[101st_fan]

Sorry I'm not even following what point you're trying to make. I'm just stating a simple fact that with the exception of an expansion team that every team for the last 15 years has had a top five pick they selected as a key part of their roster. No one said top five picks guarantee you a Cup but recent history suggests you do need to have one to win one regardless of how long the timeline from suck to Cup is.

A decade after the pick in most cases. As I questioned earlier "So suck for a few years and hope to win a Cup in a decade? Or suck for a decade and hope to win a Cup a decade after that? "

I violently disagree with endorsing a tank. That does put me at odds with these boards.

 

[101st_fan]

IThe top 10 talent helps to push the team over the hump to make it. GM still has to build a cohesive team and hire a good coach but right now playoff scoring is led by top 10 pick talent. Even this series you see their influence. Ehlers, Marner, Eichel, etc. Yeh having a top 10 pick doesnt grant you a cup but this season only 1 team without their own top 5 draftpick even made the conference finals. The past 10+ years have shown that unless you can trade like Vegas you need a top 5 pick to build around

Ehlers, Marner, Eichel all players acquired from their draft teams. Neither Vegas nor Carolina tanked to get them. OR you trade like Florida and bring in other team top tens like Tkachuk, Bennett, and Reinhart .. OR Carolina with Hall and Kotkaniemi ... exploit the tank of other teams.

 

[glenngineer]

Chicago
Toews 2006
Kane 2007
Cups: 2010, 2013, 2015

If you get the right pieces at the right time with a good pool of prospects either in place or drafted at the same time, you can make a pretty strong turnaround and win in this league.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Chicago
Toews 2006
Kane 2007
Cups: 2010, 2013, 2015

If you get the right pieces at the right time with a good pool of prospects either in place or drafted at the same time, you can make a pretty strong turnaround and win in this league.

That was 20 years ago now.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I hate to break it to everyone but we’ve missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years and haven’t finished above a wildcard spot in 8. Depending on how you slice it we’re already approaching half a decade or more into the rebuild and we’re still nowhere close to contending again.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I hate to break it to everyone but we’ve missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years and haven’t finished above a wildcard spot in 8. Depending on how you slice it we’re already approaching half a decade or more into the rebuild and we’re still nowhere close to contending again.

Yeah, we've known that, and Poile figired it out at the end of his tenure. That probably figured into the timing of his retirement.

Trotz clearly didn't get it.

I still have no interest in sucking just to suck. Or continuing with a bad coach that has the ability to ruin prospects just because, in theory, he's a bad coach and will earn a better draft position.