Speculation: Armchair GM Thread

[Scoresberg]

I'd be all over Cozens, he's exactly the type of player we need if we want to do a quick turn-around like we did in 2014.

Frankly, I think Buffalo's is just that big of a shithole to play in that it drains you after a few years. He's put some good numbers over there while being defensively responsible at the same time. He could also learn a lot under ROR's tutelage.

6-3, 200 lbs center like him don't come for sale that often. Sure his contract is a big one and especially offensively you are banking on potential a bit but what gives?

Nyquist + Sissons/Novak + TBL/VGK 1st + a prospect or Pärssinen

 

[ShagDaddy]

If Trotz does make a trade for Cozens, hopefully he’s not dumb enough to include Fink in that. Could you imagine giving up the next Gretzky for a potential 1C/2C guy????

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

I like Cozens, but the contract does worry me. We'd have to move some salary back, with Nyquist and Carrier being good options. In a perfect world I'd move Skjei for him.

 

[glenngineer]

No interest in Cozens unless I know why his production dropped from 68 points two years ago to 47 last year to 13 points in 31 games this year.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

No interest in Cozens unless I know why his production dropped from 68 points two years ago to 47 last year to 13 points in 31 games this year.

I don't think I'd move a 1st for him, as many are suggesting, because of the contract. But if we can do, say, Pars+Carrier+mid pick? No doubter for me.

 

[glenngineer]

I don't think I'd move a 1st for him, as many are suggesting, because of the contract. But if we can do, say, Pars+Carrier+mid pick? No doubter for me.

No reason to trade assets for an already declining player unless you know you can turn the regression into progression. He's basically pulled a Turris and he's 22 years old. Not so sure that's the swing I'm taking.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

All depends on price, but I'd certainly be interested in him. He has question marks and if he didn't, he wouldn't be available. That is how this game of acquiring young potential ascending centers goes. Sure, it would be great if he was just a sure fire 1C signed to a long-term contract with no questions, but then why would anyone trade him? You have to be able to scout these guys, make a prediction of their play within your system, and roll the dice when they become available. I don't care what he has been to be honest, because it's all about how they think he will continue to develop and what he will be.

Now who feels confident our scouts and no neck can figure that out?

 

[Armourboy]

Eh I take anything Buffalo fans have to say with a degree of caution. This is the same fan base that was happy to see ROR move just to watch him win a cup somewhere else. They screwed the Eichel thing up royally, as well as Reinhardt and Midlestadt. Just cause a guy isn't doing well in Buffalo doesn't mean much imo. Now if he wasn't doing well in Tampa, Florida, or a couple others that would be different.

Thing is you gotta take shots, or we can just sit around talking about why we never have good Centers for another 25 years.

 

[herzausstein]

If Canucks are dumb enough to move on from EP (the center), id be all over that.

More hesitation around Cozens, Krebs, Norris, etc type player but unless Trotz does a complete about face on what he wants the team to do over the next couple seasons that is the type of move he would have to do. To get a center as the ones without warts arent usually available.

Buffalo has seen many a young forwards do better elsewhere. So that is something to keep in mind.

 

[Fjordy]

No interest in Cozens unless I know why his production dropped from 68 points two years ago to 47 last year to 13 points in 31 games this year.

Sabres fan here. Probably because our coach (he was still a coach at the time) tried to change the system and it didn't work for our players. In the season where he scored 68 points we didn't really even have a system and there was no accountability for the players. They just played offense, didn't think about defense and had fun, and almost made the playoffs one point behind. That season Cozens was 2C and on his wings played very young Peterka and Quinn and it was a great youth line. Last season the coach decided to try to teach them to play defense as well, not just offense, but it just didn't work and not only did Cozens look worse, but some of the other players did too. Also at the beginning of last season he got into a fight with Hatthaway and he broke his nose, it seems to have thrown Cozens off track mentally. Oh yeah, last season Cozens lost a guy like Quinn on their line who was the best defensive player of them line and had the highest IQ of them all, he was gone for almost the entire season. Overall our lineup was pretty trash.

This season Ruff came in and he's a completely different coach than Granato (he was a nice guy to them who didn't hold them accountable). At the start of the season Cozens played like a 2C on a line with a young Benson and Quinn. Quinn had a terrible start to the season and it had nothing to do with Cozens. He just looked drunk on the ice and scored one empty net goal in his first 25 games. Benson got hurt early on and then came back and was good overall but he's still young. Cozens has had a hard time, he's struggled and been inconsistent. Sometimes he seems too dumb, sometimes he plays well and it seems like there might be some hockey IQ there. But he hasn't been a good 2C this season, and the team as a whole is terrible.

On the plus side, he's fast, athletic, physical, could probably play wing as well (maybe even better for him), but he lacks consistency so far, but he hasn't seen guys like Forsberg on his line, ever. Who knows how he'll play with more experienced and better linemates and on another team. Most of our players break out when they went to other teams.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Eh I take anything Buffalo fans have to say with a degree of caution. This is the same fan base that was happy to see ROR move just to watch him win a cup somewhere else. They screwed the Eichel thing up royally, as well as Reinhardt and Midlestadt. Just cause a guy isn't doing well in Buffalo doesn't mean much imo. Now if he wasn't doing well in Tampa, Florida, or a couple others that would be different.

Thing is you gotta take shots, or we can just sit around talking about why we never have good Centers for another 25 years.

It sounds like Buffalo isn't super interested in taking prospects/futures as the key component in a deal for Cozens anyway? Prospects and futures are something they have, they want players who can play NOW.

The first part of that meshes well with my preferences in making a deal for Cozens. He's a gamble with a big contract, so I don't want to give up any of our best prospects/futures for him. Not even a struggling Wood or a late Vegas 1st. But the second part is a little tougher for us. Do we have players who can play? It sort of doesn't feel that way atm, given how guys are struggling under Bruno, but maybe if Buffalo is willing to look past this year's chaos, you really could construct something with Sissons + Carrier/Lauzon + Parssinen? Well, it's up to Buffalo how eager they are to move Cozens I guess, and what other teams out there are willing to offer for him. But I'd set a hard line on what caliber of futures I'd be willing to just throw in, and not cross it. If I therefore lose out on Cozens to some other team bidding higher, that's a "loss" I'm definitely willing to take.

 

[ShagDaddy]

It sounds like Buffalo isn't super interested in taking prospects/futures as the key component in a deal for Cozens anyway? Prospects and futures are something they have, they want players who can play NOW.

The first part of that meshes well with my preferences in making a deal for Cozens. He's a gamble with a big contract, so I don't want to give up any of our best prospects/futures for him. Not even a struggling Wood or a late Vegas 1st. But the second part is a little tougher for us. Do we have players who can play? It sort of doesn't feel that way atm, given how guys are struggling under Bruno, but maybe if Buffalo is willing to look past this year's chaos, you really could construct something with Sissons + Carrier/Lauzon + Parssinen? Well, it's up to Buffalo how eager they are to move Cozens I guess, and what other teams out there are willing to offer for him. But I'd set a hard line on what caliber of futures I'd be willing to just throw in, and not cross it. If I therefore lose out on Cozens to some other team bidding higher, that's a "loss" I'm definitely willing to take.

Do you think either the Tampa or Vegas 1st rounders the Predators hold in this years draft would yield a player with the potential of Cozens? I’m not understanding what you see in the value of those two picks.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Do you think either the Tampa or Vegas 1st rounders the Predators hold in this years draft would yield a player with the potential of Cozens? I’m not understanding what you see in the value of those two picks.

Yes I very much do. (See other thread). That is of course a combination of not seeing that much potential in Cozens, as well as needing better luck with that pick than we've been managing lately. But I don't think it's too high a bar in general to get a mediocre #2C/RW with a pick at the end of the 1st. It has been a high bar FOR OUR TEAM, but it's not in general.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

So as many of you know, I sometimes have the ability to talk to people who know things. From what I've heard this Cozen's business is getting done and it's getting done before the 20th. I've had two sources now confirm this.

I'm told that salary retention is the biggest stumbling block or the Sabres taking on Novak's contract. We are the #1 team and it's expected to get done. I'm hearing that one of this year's firsts is going back the other way along with Novak, and potentially ZLH. Buffalo apparently really wants a player like that coming back the other way.

My best guess.

ZLH
Novak
Vegas 1st
3rd round pick

Dylan Cozens at x% retained
Other contract

I know Byram is also available. My pipedream would be to get both.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If we trade L'Heureux and a 1st to get Cozens, I'm out for a while.

At least until/unless Cozens blows up here and I come crawling back, anyway.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Could the Preds send them McCarron and or Smith instead of L’Heureux?

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Yeah I mean I'm on the fence with this one. But I do think it gets done. Again, I don't know specifics but people I talked to seemed confident.

If you want my honest take: this feels like Johansen 2.0. Guy who is going to come in, play well and get 60 points a year. Interpret how you will.

 

[glenngineer]

Sabres fan here. Probably because our coach (he was still a coach at the time) tried to change the system and it didn't work for our players. In the season where he scored 68 points we didn't really even have a system and there was no accountability for the players. They just played offense, didn't think about defense and had fun, and almost made the playoffs one point behind. That season Cozens was 2C and on his wings played very young Peterka and Quinn and it was a great youth line. Last season the coach decided to try to teach them to play defense as well, not just offense, but it just didn't work and not only did Cozens look worse, but some of the other players did too. Also at the beginning of last season he got into a fight with Hatthaway and he broke his nose, it seems to have thrown Cozens off track mentally. Oh yeah, last season Cozens lost a guy like Quinn on their line who was the best defensive player of them line and had the highest IQ of them all, he was gone for almost the entire season. Overall our lineup was pretty trash.

This season Ruff came in and he's a completely different coach than Granato (he was a nice guy to them who didn't hold them accountable). At the start of the season Cozens played like a 2C on a line with a young Benson and Quinn. Quinn had a terrible start to the season and it had nothing to do with Cozens. He just looked drunk on the ice and scored one empty net goal in his first 25 games. Benson got hurt early on and then came back and was good overall but he's still young. Cozens has had a hard time, he's struggled and been inconsistent. Sometimes he seems too dumb, sometimes he plays well and it seems like there might be some hockey IQ there. But he hasn't been a good 2C this season, and the team as a whole is terrible.

On the plus side, he's fast, athletic, physical, could probably play wing as well (maybe even better for him), but he lacks consistency so far, but he hasn't seen guys like Forsberg on his line, ever. Who knows how he'll play with more experienced and better linemates and on another team. Most of our players break out when they went to other teams.

This is great insight. Thank you.

Two things I worry about when it comes to top 6 or even top 3 talent, what's their hockey IQ and are they driving play?

We always wanted Legwand to turn into a 1C for us. It wasn't until Kariya showed up that Legwand showed what he had. This was due to Kariya. He drove play, had a high IQ and a professionalism that the locker room had yet to see and it helped Legwand. As soon as Kariya left, Legwand's play regressed.

A 2C is not always going to drive play, if they did, they'd be a 1C. What a 2C should be able to do is compliment the wingers and vice versa and hopefully the sum of the parts makes it an effective line. I'd be interested to see what Cozens could do BUT, if he doesn't play D, not sure how he's going to fit in around here.

So as many of you know, I sometimes have the ability to talk to people who know things. From what I've heard this Cozen's business is getting done and it's getting done before the 20th. I've had two sources now confirm this.

I'm told that salary retention is the biggest stumbling block or the Sabres taking on Novak's contract. We are the #1 team and it's expected to get done. I'm hearing that one of this year's firsts is going back the other way along with Novak, and potentially ZLH. Buffalo apparently really wants a player like that coming back the other way.

My best guess.

ZLH
Novak
Vegas 1st
3rd round pick

Dylan Cozens at x% retained
Other contract

I know Byram is also available. My pipedream would be to get both.

While I'm all for adding a potential 2C, I don't know that I'd do it with a guy like ZLH going the other way. ZLH hasn't shown us everything at this point but his game is progressing nicely and the more familiar he becomes with the NHL, the better he should get. He's also a bit of an agitator, which is something we sorely lack. Every roster needs balance and if he can play in all three situations and be a sh*t disturber if he does get moved, it needs to be for a more established player. That's just me.