Speculation: Armchair GM 2024-25 Season, Craig Conroy's Can Do Calgary Flames

[Sparky93]

At best? We acquired Lindholm at essentially the same age and he had a career high of 45 points before that. Monahan hit 60 points 3 times sure but he was also riding shotgun to Johnny, he was never the play driver on that line.

I think with Cozens we are looking at a player much more in line with Mark Scheifele or Roope Hintz

It's really hard to say, at that age. Ryan Johansen perhaps?

 

[Sonk]

I remember when McKinnon was an enigma too after his first few years. Good player, nothing special. Then the team improved and he skyrocketed.

People were at one point saying he was a bust

I get the sentiment, but the comparison isn’t accurate. MacKinnon was billed as “the next Crosby” as a prospect and a generational pick. Not to mention he was trending relatively steady or slightly up in per game production (aside from his rookie year), whereas Cozens has been trending mainly downward. A Lindholm comparison seems more apt based on talent, draft position, pedigree, etc.

Mackinnon’s drive and competitiveness is also incredibly well documented. He’s on another level.

I’d be alright pursuing Cozens, but it would be as a high-end 2C option rather than a fixture at 1C.

 

[Volica]

Not to mention he was trending relatively steady or slightly up in per game production

His first four years in the NHL he averaged 51.5 points a season and only missed 28 games total over that span (for an average of 75 games a season).

The MacKinnon 'is this guy not as good as we thought he was' debate was a real thing.

 

[HighLifeMan]

At best? We acquired Lindholm at essentially the same age and he had a career high of 45 points before that. Monahan hit 60 points 3 times sure but he was also riding shotgun to Johnny, he was never the play driver on that line.

I think with Cozens we are looking at a player much more in line with Mark Scheifele or Roope Hintz

Cozen's has shown little to no "play driving" ability either though. He's never finished higher than 5th on his own team in scoring.

I certainly think a change of scenery would be beneficial for the player, and that he will become a good player but nothing to me suggests he's a difference maker by himself. To me he absolutely falls in line with the likes of a Monahan / Lindholm type player whom many were unhappy with at times here as they have more complimentary skillsets.

 

[Figgy44]

His first four years in the NHL he averaged 51.5 points a season and only missed 28 games total over that span (for an average of 75 games a season).

The MacKinnon 'is this guy not as good as we thought he was' debate was a real thing.

That's different than the comment of Mack being "a good player, nothing special". Remember when Monahan was right up there with Mack for total points and perhaps was above Mack in career points? Quite a few Flames fans IIRC were still like, "I'd add to Monahan to get Mack, no doubt". Same thing with Barkov. Yes, Mack/Barkov was struggling at first, but it was obvious there was a calibre difference between a Mack/Barkov to a Monahan.

Monahan's most frequent direct comparisons by us IIRC were Johansen, Lindholm and Horvat. Earlier was Mack and Barkov due to the points he was putting up for that draft class, but once those guys took off, I think we immediately knew they were on a different/higher tier than Monahan.

It's really hard to say, at that age. Ryan Johansen perhaps?

RyJo is a good comparison as a worst case scenario perhaps. But reaching the level of apathy and drop off as RyJo might basically require Cozens to intentionally crater his own career IMO.

 

[Rubi]

Despite what others believe, I still think Cozens legit ceiling is the 2C position. Now that's not saying that on certain teams he won't get the opportunity to play center on the top line but I don't think any honest ranking will say he absolutely belongs there.
I also don't think he's an upgrade over Kadri and Zary. If it takes trading Andersson to get Cozens I say forget it. I would rather trade Andersson at the 2025 draft in order to improve our first round draft pick placing.

 

[JPeeper]

Rumor I heard was Buffalo wanted Zary (or Andersson) + for Cozens. I wouldn't trade Zary straight up for Cozens. Despite Zary's lowish production, he creates a ton of chances and given better linemates his numbers would pop.

 

[Sonk]

His first four years in the NHL he averaged 51.5 points a season and only missed 28 games total over that span (for an average of 75 games a season).

The MacKinnon 'is this guy not as good as we thought he was' debate was a real thing.

And I’m not debating otherwise. The main principle of that post is completely reasonable. I don’t think any sane person would argue that young players often take time to hit their stride, regardless of talent (Jack Hughes first couple years also come to mind).

However, the implied comparison to Mackinnon gets quite dicey. Like, assuming 82 games in his rookie year, Cozens only averaged 44.75 points over his first four years, including a ‘breakout’ 68 point campaign. With the assumption above, he would have also missed significantly less games than MacKinnon.

During Mackinnon’s first four years, scoring was also on average .3-.4 goals lower per game than Cozens first four years.

I’m admittedly being a bit nitpicky here and the overall message is completely fine, but the implied comparison gets really messy and is really quite the hyperbole.

Expecting a player on Cozens trajectory to become a bonafide 1C with a change of scenery is incredibly hopeful.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Rumor I heard was Buffalo wanted Zary (or Andersson) + for Cozens. I wouldn't trade Zary straight up for Cozens. Despite Zary's lowish production, he creates a ton of chances and given better linemates his numbers would pop.

I was trying to use the Hanifin trade as a basis for what we could feasibly get from Buffalo for Razzy, and figured if Hanny could fetch us a 1st, a 2nd and Miro (and Conny took that deal to move him asap), there’s no reason Razzy shouldn’t be able to fetch us Cozens + 19 year old RHD Brunet (123rd overall 2024) + a 2026 2nd, and I’d be 100% ok with that. Zary or Coro would be a non-starter for me.

 

[Kahvi]

Andersson didnt play for Sweden tonight. Hopefully he's not injured

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Cozen's has shown little to no "play driving" ability either though. He's never finished higher than 5th on his own team in scoring.

I certainly think a change of scenery would be beneficial for the player, and that he will become a good player but nothing to me suggests he's a difference maker by himself. To me he absolutely falls in line with the likes of a Monahan / Lindholm type player whom many were unhappy with at times here as they have more complimentary skillsets.

I mean sure if that's how you want to look at it. The way I see it is he is redundant in Buffalo because of Tage. Both are RHS centers and goal scorers. Both want to line up on the left hand wall on the powerplay. Buffalo opts to play Tage on the 1st PP unit and Cozens runs the 2nd unit. The year Cozens had 31 goals and 68 points he was centering that 1st unit and they were very effective. Last year Mittelstadt replaced him on the first unit and this year they've run Quinn and Peterka.

As for driving his own line, he's played almost exclusively with wingers his own age or younger than him so far in his career so he has had to be the line driver but they simply lack experience. We acquired Lindholm at the exact same age and he was far less proven. I am not saying he is a bonafide top 10 caliber 1C by any stretch of the imagination. I am saying that he absolutely has the potential to be a 1C in the top 10-15 range and is a very similar player stylistically to the 2 guys I mentioned.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I was trying to use the Hanifin trade as a basis for what we could feasibly get from Buffalo for Razzy, and figured if Hanny could fetch us a 1st, a 2nd and Miro (and Conny took that deal to movie him asap), there’s no reason Razzy shouldn’t be able to fetch us Cozens + 19 year old RHD Brunet (123rd overall 2024) + a 2026 2nd, and I’d be 100% ok with that. Zary or Coro would be a non-starter for me.

I would use the Dougie trade as a better comparable. We got Hanifin and Lindholm in that deal for Dougie + a pending UFA in Ferland, and a prospect (albeit good) that didn't want to sign with us. So something like Ras + a near ready prospect in like Honzek or Stromgren for Cozens + Samuelsson?

 

[Zirakzigil]

Andersson didnt play for Sweden tonight. Hopefully he's not injured

He wasnt. Wouldnt shock me to see him against the Fins though.

 

[Sparky93]

I would use the Dougie trade as a better comparable. We got Hanifin and Lindholm in that deal for Dougie + a pending UFA in Ferland, and a prospect (albeit good) that didn't want to sign with us. So something like Ras + a near ready prospect in like Honzek or Stromgren for Cozens + Samuelsson?

Might just be me but I don't think Ras has nearly the value of Dougie, at the time of the trade.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Might just be me but I don't think Ras has nearly the value of Dougie, at the time of the trade.

Conversely, I think Raz’s value is pretty much on par to what Hanifin’s was at the time of the trade, if not more so since a) he’s not discontent in Calgary and Conny is thus under no pressure to move him, and b) he still has another year left on his present deal at a very reasonable hit

 

[Sparky93]

Conversely, I think Raz’s value is pretty much on par to what Hanifin’s was at the time of the trade, if not more so since a) he’s not discontent in Calgary and Conny is thus under no pressure to move him, and b) he still has another year left on his present deal at a very reasonable hit

Dougie was 25 and had 3 years remaining, under $6 million.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Might just be me but I don't think Ras has nearly the value of Dougie, at the time of the trade.

Probably not but I also don't think Samuelsson has as much value as Hanifin did at the time. I was also spitballing as I think that type of trade is what both teams would be looking for in a deal

 

[Sparky93]

In my opinion, Cuzens is quite comparable to Lindholm. Possibly a little more skilled but he's also had better linemates than Lindy. I would say he is a potential high end 1C

Probably not but I also don't think Samuelsson has as much value as Hanifin did at the time. I was also spitballing as I think that type of trade is what both teams would be looking for in a deal

Personally I don't think the Sabres would entertain it until they can negotiate a contract extension

 

[Mobiandi]

Cozens ceiling is so much higher than Lindholm’s ever was

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In my opinion, Cuzens is quite comparable to Lindholm. Possibly a little more skilled but he's also had better linemates than Lindy. I would say he is a potential high end 1C


Personally I don't think the Sabres would entertain it until they can negotiate a contract extension

Oh for sure, I've been pretty adamant here and the public thread that any deal here would be likely an offseason trade. Unless Buffalo goes on an absolute heater out of the break I don't see them as buyers at all

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Cozens ceiling is so much higher than Lindholm’s ever was

Disagree. Lindholm's ceiling, especially when he was younger, was just as high, if not higher. Or least was seen as that high, not a retrospective look of it.

Elias Lindholm - The Next Ones: 2013 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Hockey Writers' 2013 NHL Draft prospect profile of Swedish forward Elias Lindholm.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Sonk]

In my opinion, Cuzens is quite comparable to Lindholm. Possibly a little more skilled but he's also had better linemates than Lindy. I would say he is a potential high end 1C

Lindholm was never what I would consider a high-end 1C

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Disagree. Lindholm's ceiling, especially when he was younger, was just as high, if not higher. Or least was seen as that high, not a retrospective look of it.

Elias Lindholm - The Next Ones: 2013 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

The Hockey Writers' 2013 NHL Draft prospect profile of Swedish forward Elias Lindholm.

thehockeywriters.com

The problem is you are looking at their draft pedigree and not what they've done since then. Lindholm wasn't drafted 5th OA by accident, he was absolutely highly touted back then.

 

[HighLifeMan]

To me - Dylan Cozen's has the ability to become Jeff Carter 2.0, which is a very good player, but not an elite offensive talent/driver.

That's a guy you can absolutely win with though, and someone this team should have an interest in.

 

[Sparky93]

Lindholm was never what I would consider a high-end 1C

Typo, should read 2C. Lindholm's skills are that of a 2C. I think Cuzens potential is a high-end 2C to a low end 1C.