Value of: Arizona G To BUF

[Vitto79]

Fluery w 2 million retained for Hutton

 

[XX]

I feel like yotes fans are under selling Kuemper here, I would have though Mitts and a protected 1st for next year was fair. Arguably top 5 goalie in the league with term wouldn't come cheap.

I think there are other options that send a goalie back to AZ, like Reimer or Andersen, that are going to end up more appealing to Armstrong. But it could very well be Buffalo. It would certainly be a coup and make sense to go for Kuemper, even if you overpay slightly.

As of now, the Coyotes like their projections with Kuemper in net more than whatever was offered at the draft. He's the best goalie out there in trade by a long shot. They don't really need to do anything other than wait for the right offer.

The Coyotes have 3 goalies on 1 way contracts and would like some space, so a Raanta trade is always going to be there if Buffalo wants it.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think there are other options that send a goalie back to AZ, like Reimer or Andersen, that are going to end up more appealing to Armstrong. But it could very well be Buffalo. It would certainly be a coup and make sense to go for Kuemper, even if you overpay slightly.

As of now, the Coyotes like their projections with Kuemper in net more than whatever was offered at the draft. He's the best goalie out there in trade by a long shot. They don't really need to do anything other than wait for the right offer.

The Coyotes have 3 goalies on 1 way contracts and would like some space, so a Raanta trade is always going to be there if Buffalo wants it.

This confuses me? You talk about how they currently have 3 goalies on q ways, but think taking a goalie back is appealing? The reasons Kuemper was being shopped in the first place was 1. Hill was ready to make the jump, 2. They cant protect both Hill and Kuemper in the expansion, 3. Half of Raanta's contract has been paid already this year and the remaining amount is less than Kuemper, 4. Kuemper is coming off 2 really good seasons in a row so his value is very high and should get a very good return if traded.

 

[XX]

This confuses me? You talk about how they currently have 3 goalies on q ways, but think taking a goalie back is appealing? The reasons Kuemper was being shopped in the first place was 1. Hill was ready to make the jump, 2. They cant protect both Hill and Kuemper in the expansion, 3. Half of Raanta's contract has been paid already this year and the remaining amount is less than Kuemper, 4. Kuemper is coming off 2 really good seasons in a row so his value is very high and should get a very good return if traded.

The market for Raanta is fairly limited. The market for Kuemper is larger.

It makes sense to send Kuemper to a team that has no interest in Raanta, and to try and send Raanta to one of the teams that would take him. It makes sense to take back an average starter owed as little cash as possible in the Kuemper deal, since it wouldn't be the primary return value at all.

I doubt Seattle takes Hill. If they do, it's not the end of the world. Still have Prosvetov.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

The market for Raanta is fairly limited. The market for Kuemper is larger.

It makes sense to send Kuemper to a team that has no interest in Raanta, and to try and send Raanta to one of the teams that would take him. It makes sense to take back an average starter owed as little cash as possible in the Kuemper deal, since it wouldn't be the primary return value at all.

I doubt Seattle takes Hill. If they do, it's not the end of the world. Still have Prosvetov.

A majority of the goalie market has dried up, i wouldnt plan around moving both goalies. Only 1

 

[XX]

A majority of the goalie market has dried up, i wouldnt plan around moving both goalies. Only 1

Raanta is owed backup cash but can be elite when healthy. Pretty much every team is spending $2m in cash on a worse return. He is a luxury at $4.25m AAV, so it won't happen until teams firm up their rosters and know they have the room.

Kuemper boosts a team's chances of making the playoffs and contending significantly. There are a number of teams that could come calling for that upgrade. His AAV is generally under what most starters are getting, so it doesn't require moving significant pieces around.

Both can easily go by the end of the month.

 

[explore]

Fluery w 2 million retained for Hutton

Vegas couldn't give Fleury away with 4 million retained AND a second.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Schmaltz, Keumper, Oesterle for Risto, Thompson, and a first

I'd switch out Thompson for Mittlestadt. The Sabre fan in me is really high on Tommy Gun and doubts he's available after inking the new contract. The Coyotes fan in me would covet Mittlestadt more because of his upside and game breaking ability. He's got work to do, but if/when he puts it together, he could be special.

Would be a good deal for both teams.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm like 95% sure that deal was signed to give cost certainty and make him appealing to teams like AZ. The GM and assistant scout in AZ probably still love him. They were also talking about a Schmaltz trade for a time before that contract was given.

I like Asplund. Don't need any D. And maybe the Coyotes take a flyer on Mittelstadt.

Raanta, Kuemper, Fischer, Demers, Schmaltz are all moveable pieces from AZ.

Don't need any D? Hell, we need everything. Do not want Mitts, unless he is a throw in.

 

[Jakey53]

A majority of the goalie market has dried up, i wouldnt plan around moving both goalies. Only 1

You make more sense than many of the Coyote posters.

 

[Jakey53]

I'd switch out Thompson for Mittlestadt. The Sabre fan in me is really high on Tommy Gun and doubts he's available after inking the new contract. The Coyotes fan in me would covet Mittlestadt more because of his upside and game breaking ability. He's got work to do, but if/when he puts it together, he could be special.

Would be a good deal for both teams.

Mittlestadt, can he be saved? He has upside, but the way it sounds no ambition to take the next step. Is it true he comes to camp out of shape? I don't think I would want him in a trade on what I have read about him.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

So something around Raanta for Miller seems reasonable from both sides. Is that the conclusion? I don't care about the mid round pick that goes either way to balance the deal depending what GMs value the deal at. I just want a better goalie than Carter Hutton in net.

If Raanata gets his obligatory injury, I think JJ or UPL can go up in a backup role for a few games, so I don't see even this as a big red flag. (I'm assuming Hutton gets bought out)

 

[rt]

Arizona absolutely does not want Miller at all. That would be a negative value contract for us. He makes nearly four million in real money and is signed beyond this season. That’s a very, very rich cap-dump by our standards. They were shying away from this contract in an OEL deal. No chance they’d eat a contract like that in a Raanta deal. He’s only due 2m in real dollars this season. They aren’t going to pay Miller twice as much. No chance.

 

[Jormungandr]

Mittlestadt has been completely underwhelming everywhere he has played but the World Juniors. I think I’d prefer a different piece.

 

[rt]

Could we make this really, really simple? How about Raanta for a conditional 2021 2nd rounder? If Buffalo makes the playoffs, AZ gets the pick. If not, the pick slides to a 2022 2nd.

Then Arizona can just use the cap-space to address some of the things we can't seem to make fit with the pieces Buffalo has to offer.

Would that work for everyone?

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Could we make this really, really simple? How about Raanta for a conditional 2021 2nd rounder? If Buffalo makes the playoffs, AZ gets the pick. If not, the pick slides to a 2022 2nd.

Then Arizona can just use the cap-space to address some of the things we can't seem to make fit with the pieces Buffalo has to offer.

Would that work for everyone?

We need to send some salary back and also have a zillion RD so one should be moved. I think thats what Sabres would try to sell for a goalie.

 

[rt]

We need to send some salary back and also have a zillion RD so one should be moved. I think thats what Sabres would try to sell for a goalie.

Hmmm...Raanta and Oesterle for Montour?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Hmmm...Raanta and Oesterle for Montour?

That's a definite "sell low" move by Buffalo. Montour's gonna be a good player again once he gets to a team that can play him in his natural position. If that's the best return we can get for him, I'll be disappointed.

 

[Chan790]

Switch Bean for Bokk. I’m sure Armstrong still loves him. On the other hand, he probably still loves Tage Thompson as well.

Not as worth it to Carolina. Subtracting from our glut of LHD in advance of the expansion draft has value in itself.

 

[Dickfoligno]

We also need the cap to work. Probably need to send Hutton somewhere with sweetener.

This!

Carter Hutton is still on payroll and there will not be many takers right now willing to add....if Buffalo adds a goalie, i'm guessing he's number three....but with a reformed and healthy eye, and a better defense if they improve it, he could perform better and rebound.

Any deal with Arizona dealing Raanta to Buffalo will likely have to involve cap retention...at least 30-50%.

If thats the case, id gladly give a 2021 second rounder and Thompson to make it work.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Not as worth it to Carolina. Subtracting from our glut of LHD in advance of the expansion draft has value in itself.

I'm not following the logic here. The Canes have two desirable young LHD that the GM of Seattle drafted in Carolina. In a 7-3-1, assuming Hamilton re-signs, trading one results in the other going to the Kraken probably. In the absence of a trade, while one goes, the other is left behind. 1 > 0.

I see fans try to come up with scenarios that see the team protecting 8 skaters with Staal waiving and Hamilton signing after the expansion draft or making 2-3 trades to give Seattle as little as possible. It's pretty convoluted. The Canes got lucky with the Vegas expansion. They're going to lose something of value with the Seattle expansion, unfortunately. It is what it is. It's not really a factor in a trade.

 

[Chan790]

I'm not following the logic here. The Canes have two desirable young LHD that the GM of Seattle drafted in Carolina. In a 7-3-1, assuming Hamilton re-signs, trading one results in the other going to the Kraken probably. In the absence of a trade, while one goes, the other is left behind. 1 > 0.

I see fans try to come up with scenarios that see the team protecting 8 skaters with Staal waiving and Hamilton signing after the expansion draft or making 2-3 trades to give Seattle as little as possible. It's pretty convoluted. The Canes got lucky with the Vegas expansion. They're going to lose something of value with the Seattle expansion, unfortunately. It is what it is. It's not really a factor in a trade.

You've over-thought it. We're going to to lose someone substantial...foolishness is trying to game it. We agree thus far.

At the same time, it makes no sense to have multiple exposed assets and a critical deficiency (we have zero goaltenders worth protecting) when we can move an exposed asset for a goaltender worth keeping.

Trading from our LHD glut for a goaltender, regardless which LHD Seattle eventually takes, leaves us a stronger team than not making such a deal.

We're less exposed moving a ED-desirable unprotected asset for a protectable one.

 

[Havok89]

Mittelstadt + Hutton + pick for Kuemper?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

You've over-thought it. We're going to to lose someone substantial...foolishness is trying to game it. We agree thus far.

At the same time, it makes no sense to have multiple exposed assets and a critical deficiency (we have zero goaltenders worth protecting) when we can move an exposed asset for a goaltender worth keeping.

Trading from our LHD glut for a goaltender, regardless which LHD Seattle eventually takes, leaves us a stronger team than not making such a deal.

We're less exposed moving a ED-desirable unprotected asset for a protectable one.

Seattle only gets to take one player. Unless there's a meaningful difference in the value of Bean compared to Fleury or possibly Skjei, going out of their way to limit Seattle's choice doesn't accomplish anything.

Given the choice, I think they'd be better off with the guarantee of 1 for 21-22 and beyond. They've invested a lot in prospect forwards in recent years. Not so much in prospect defensemen. Suzuki, Jarvis and the collection of b-prospects drafted on Day 2 recently + 1 of Bean/Fleury is more balanced than the alternative.

 

[Diaspora]

Schmaltz, Keumper, Oesterle for Risto, Thompson, and a first

Can't afford Schmaltz anymore. Let's adjust. Montour + Asplund + 2nd for Kuemper + Capobianco (AHL)