Arizona Coyotes Lounge XXIV

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The top 1% pay 24% of the taxes, in spite of all that you claim. How much should they pay? 50%, 75%?
Well they own 32% of the nations wealth, so I would think that much at least.

My thought bubble rule is that no one person in a company should be able to make more than 50x the amount of the person making the least in the company. So in theory if you pay someone the federal minimum wage, the CEO can only make 750k ish
 
Well they own 32% of the nations wealth, so I would think that much at least.

My thought bubble rule is that no one person in a company should be able to make more than 50x the amount of the person making the least in the company. So in theory if you pay someone the federal minimum wage, the CEO can only make 750k ish
That's stupid.
 
Your reward for taking imitative and risk is that you have to give others the rewards.

If it's just you taking the initiative and risk, then you should be able to keep all the rewards.

Otherwise, you've gotta reward the people whose work makes your credit possible.
 
If it's just you taking the initiative and risk, then you should be able to keep all the rewards.

Otherwise, you've gotta reward the people whose work makes your credit possible.
I mean the idea is mainly geared towards corporations. It just makes me sick seeing these billionaires treat employees like crap. Or corporate profits are soaring while their lowest employees are getting evicted. Idk, I personally think there's a massive greed issue in this country. The idea of even being a billionaire is sick to me.
 
As an owner of a 3 for the past 4 years and having just purchased an X, I have a different take on Elon.

I think that Elon is very serious about having unfettered web discourse. I think that he sees this as a check on totalitarianism. As Goebbels purportedly said, "Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs."
Here's the thing.....

Elon doesn't build the cars. The people who work at Tesla do all R&D and build them. And an executive staff that makes all the decisions.

But to listen to Elon stans they will try to you sell you on the narrative that he designed and built every car himself.

Elon is just the bag man,

At Twitter Elon IS trying to be hands on and the results are obvious.
 
If his behavior were admirable, I'd admire him. They say that Mussolini at least made the trains run on time, but that turned out to be a myth spun up by the guy's propaganda machine.



Believe me, I have nothing but disdain for virtually every politician currently or formerly in power. None of them are ever held accountable because either they game the system to avoid it or their party frames their accountability as political persecution. Essentially we have two Mafia families fighting a turf war and it's all any of us can do not to get caught in the crossfire.
Behavior is a different view than judging business success. Musk isn't a saint, many high end business guys are not, they aren't wired that way. Not liking him I get, but dismissing his business success because he isn't a saint doesn't make sense.

Here's the thing.....

Elon doesn't build the cars. The people who work at Tesla do all R&D and build them. And an executive staff that makes all the decisions.

But to listen to Elon stans they will try to you sell you on the narrative that he designed and built every car himself.

Elon is just the bag man,

At Twitter Elon IS trying to be hands on and the results are obvious.
Musk has a good team in place, he is the leader, but no business works well without good people in place. He hired them, give him credit for that and his vision.

He has been stepping back a little from Twitter and hired an experienced operator to run it. I think she and he will figure it out in the long term.
 
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As an owner of a 3 for the past 4 years and having just purchased an X, I have a different take on Elon.

I think that Elon is very serious about having unfettered web discourse. I think that he sees this as a check on totalitarianism. As Goebbels purportedly said, "Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs."
I don't own a Tesla but have been thinking about it, I own nothing Musk has built.
 
I mean the idea is mainly geared towards corporations. It just makes me sick seeing these billionaires treat employees like crap. Or corporate profits are soaring while their lowest employees are getting evicted. Idk, I personally think there's a massive greed issue in this country. The idea of even being a billionaire is sick to me.

It's the scale that gets you.

I know plenty of moderately to very wealthy people. I have fun visiting them in their homes in Fountain Hills or off the Piestewa Parkway and seeing the little touches that show off their net worth... an elevator to take you to their game room... an infinity pool that looks out over the south Valley... a mint condition Cobra that I occasionally get to take out and stretch its legs... that sort of thing. One couple I know have taken their money and sponsored some programs for the homeless and their pets because, and I quote, "We would rather spend it on this than on some shitty products off of 'goop.'" They have my respect.

But there's this whole other level of super-wealthy person who has so much money that they go a little crazy. Like, even if 75% of their net worth was taxed, they'd still have enough money to take their yacht on a worldwide cruise while using gold-leaf toilet paper. And you hear stories about them just trying to accumulate more and more, hiding their money in offshore accounts, trying to run up their totals to insane levels that they'd never be able to spend in a million lifetimes. These folks get weird in the head - it's almost as if the wealth is like a brain tumor that knocks out their empathy and ethical centers and turns them into money addicts. They feel they've "ascended" and that the rest of us are all a species of putrid ant.

David Zaslav, the new CEO of Warner Brothers Discovery, makes $500 million per year in salary. Nothing in his life or his personality justifies that kind of compensation. Period. I don't care if he grinded his way up from picking seeds out of a patch of dustbowl farmland, or if he was somehow considered to be the savant of all savants in business (he most definitely is not, by the way). I shudder to think of his golden parachute for when he is inevitably ousted - and it's just a matter of time with the disastrous rebrand of Max and the way he's taking a scythe to streaming content to get tax breaks.

I guess for me it comes down to what people need. I spent a few years living around people who lived their whole lives in thatch-roof huts in a Mexican jungle with no electricity and no running water. My living budget at the time was 50 bucks per month. You get disabused pretty quickly of the idea that poverty only happens to the unmotivated when you have that opportunity to live with people who can't escape it. So I don't get jealous of people who are blessed with enough opportunities to live a comfortable life if they can. What turns my stomach is when greed and narcissism poisons that comfort, turns it into an obsession, and results in a demographic of people who would gladly stomp on the backs and grind the necks of people who do the work in order to take all the credit and hoard all the profits.
 
I think he deserves nothing but admiration.

I agree with your first sentence, but that doesn't mean he should be above criticism. No one is. Musk has to be the most immature billionaire. Attacking people on social media ("pedo-guy"), public comments causing dogecoin and other securities to make huge moves (likely in violation of securities laws), and his 7th-grade fascination with "420" and the S3XY model designation. I admire his work with Tesla and SpaceX, but most criticism is well-earned.
 
Your reward for taking imitative and risk is that you have to give others the rewards.
That is all fine and dandy, but to say you can only make so much more than your staff is stupid. No employee has a piano tied to their ass. If you don't like your job or the pay, find another job, or better yet, if you think it is so easy running a company, start one yourself.
 
Here's the thing.....

Elon doesn't build the cars. The people who work at Tesla do all R&D and build them. And an executive staff that makes all the decisions.

But to listen to Elon stans they will try to you sell you on the narrative that he designed and built every car himself.

Elon is just the bag man,

At Twitter Elon IS trying to be hands on and the results are obvious.
Elon is not "just the bag man.". He is a visionary in the true sense of the word, and bet everything on the future of both EV and self driving cars twenty years ago. He appears to have won that bet.
He is also hands on. The car is filled with quirks of Elon's sense of humor, from "Ludicrous Mode" to the "fart mode" to the ability to synchronize Teslas in a lovely light show (many shows, in fact, including my favorite Auld Lang Syne). He buried himself in the engineering.

Elon makes the tough calls, like the ones to use only cameras and not radar or ultrasonics. He is the real deal.

That said, I think his politics are a bit immature. Just when I think that he is a true conservative, he pushes hard for government regulation of AI. (I agree with him in that but it isn't in keeping with his other apparent positions.)
 
Wasn’t sure where to post so please forgive me. Any golfers planning on going to the putt challenge this weekend? I’m interested in going but can’t find anyone to partner with.

 
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I agree with your first sentence, but that doesn't mean he should be above criticism. No one is. Musk has to be the most immature billionaire. Attacking people on social media ("pedo-guy"), public comments causing dogecoin and other securities to make huge moves (likely in violation of securities laws), and his 7th-grade fascination with "420" and the S3XY model designation. I admire his work with Tesla and SpaceX, but most criticism is well-earned.
Also he named one of his 10 children (yes 10) X Æ A-12 and a daughter called Exa Dark Sideræl.
And twins with the CEO of Neuralink.

If i was the uncle or a relative, i would pay for the childrens name change later in life :D

 
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Elon is not "just the bag man.". He is a visionary in the true sense of the word, and bet everything on the future of both EV and self driving cars twenty years ago. He appears to have won that bet.
He is also hands on. The car is filled with quirks of Elon's sense of humor, from "Ludicrous Mode" to the "fart mode" to the ability to synchronize Teslas in a lovely light show (many shows, in fact, including my favorite Auld Lang Syne). He buried himself in the engineering.
Not really.
While Tesla had a head start, they are now in the midfield of autonomous features.
Mercedes, BMW, Audi all have Level 3 features while Tesla has Level 2+.
And their choice of using cameras instead of radar sensors has come back to bite them in their ample posterior. Just to clarefy, different features have different levels. The Autopilot of Tesla is Level 2+ the same goes for chevrolet and their Super Cruise. Other features that other brands have that are Level 3.

Where i give credit though is Space X. But then again i give the credit to the engeneers and technicians who developed all that stuff. Thats really impressive what they are achieving.
 
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Elon is not "just the bag man.". He is a visionary in the true sense of the word, and bet everything on the future of both EV and self driving cars twenty years ago. He appears to have won that bet.
He is also hands on. The car is filled with quirks of Elon's sense of humor, from "Ludicrous Mode" to the "fart mode" to the ability to synchronize Teslas in a lovely light show (many shows, in fact, including my favorite Auld Lang Syne). He buried himself in the engineering.

Elon makes the tough calls, like the ones to use only cameras and not radar or ultrasonics. He is the real deal.

That said, I think his politics are a bit immature. Just when I think that he is a true conservative, he pushes hard for government regulation of AI. (I agree with him in that but it isn't in keeping with his other apparent positions.)

He didn’t design the Tesla… he didn’t even come up with the concept of the EV. He provided the startup capital.


 
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The rules were created by the wealthy elite that throw millions in lobbying money at the politicians to get what's best for them and the average Joe just can't compete. The game is obviously fixed. We're headed towards Hunger Games lol. But hey, "they earned it."

Edit: It's unsustainable to have the top 1% holding more wealth than the entire middle class. I love Capitalism too, but it's looking like it's consuming itself more and more as time goes on and can't just be ignored. Something (I don't know what) has to be done. Somewhere along the way the ratio of money going to executive vs laborer has gotten way too skewed.
 
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Well, at any rate, I'm just gonna let Musk be Musk. As for his enterprises:

* ...when I buy an EV, I'll likely look first at Lucid or Rivian, or wait for one of the more established manufacturers to come out with something with good long-term build quality and reliability. Tesla may have disrupted the space, but ROI is only so-so and the reports of the corners they've cut don't fill me with brand trust.

* ...I will always, always wish for the best for SpaceX. As much as I loathe the stupid black gimp suits Elon foisted on his pad crews, the people behind SpaceX have impressed the hell out of me with their acumen and dedication. I'm a space geek at any rate, so Elon or no Elon, I'll be cheering them on.

* ...f*** X. You can say what you want about "unfettered discourse," but I have no time for the avalanche of white supremacists, Nazis, and shitheads that have taken over that space.

Freedom! :D
 
@The Feckless Puck
You forgot the bullshit company aka vacuum tube aka "lets build a subway without a train but with teslas that need to be driven and with so little space that escaping a burning tunnel is damn near impossible" aka the boring company.
With a concept that is BS and will always be BS. But that is sold to cities so that they don't get the idea of building regular mass transit.
 
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@The Feckless Puck
You forgot the bullshit company aka vacuum tube aka "lets build a subway without a train but with teslas that need to be driven and with so little space that escaping a burning tunnel is damn near impossible" aka the boring company.
With a concept that is BS and will always be BS. But that is sold to cities so that they don't get the idea of building regular mass transit.

The Hyperloop vaporware? Yeah, that was never gonna be built. Just a lobbying tactic.
 
Edit: It's unsustainable to have the top 1% holding more wealth than the entire middle class. I love Capitalism too, but it's looking like it's cracking more and more as time goes on and can't just be ignored. Something (I don't know what) has to be done. Somewhere along the way the ratio of money going to executive vs laborer has gotten way too skewed.

The reason this country survived the Revolution and, later, the Civil War, was the idea of checks and balances. Over time, there have always been fallbacks to keep one faction or another from dominating power or discourse. It's never been a perfect system, but it's worked well enough that the nation in general has been able to buy in and keep the experiment going.

What's happening is that now everyone feels like it's time to wipe those checks and balances out because of fear. The first domino to fall happened after 9/11 because people panicked - for the first time, Americans felt threatened enough to willingly abdicate their freedoms in the name of chasing safety and security. That was the opening of Pandora's Box. From that point on, it became an ever-increasing pell-mell rush to try and secure one set of freedoms by curtailing other people's. And into that vacuum of confidence rushed a group of grifters and ne'er-do-wells who saw a profit motive in keeping outrage inflamed and influencing people to move farther out to the fringes of extremism.

What that's done is set Americans at each others' throats, and each side's fringe elements are howling for the nuclear option in every possible situation. The grifters love it because they can easily monetize it, and they further know that they can shield themselves from accountability by using delaying tactics or hiding behind a political shield. With every check and balance that gets eliminated in the name of patriotism/nationalism and pseudo-religious political crusading, we lose more and more of our social safety net that is supposed to protect all Americans from falling into the same pits of violence, toxicity, and hopelessness that have crippled so many other nations in the world. It lets the rapacious and greedy flourish at the expense of everyone else, leading to a rise of a plutocratic faction that keeps sucking up more and more wealth and then using it to gain more and more influence to protect it, like a sick perpetual motion machine.

Unless we can figure out a way to make all Americans accountable and responsible, regardless of race, creed, gender, or other demographics... unless we can restore the checks and balances to keep the fringe elements in check and look again toward a greater, common good... then this nation is in deep trouble from which it will take generations to recover, if it ever does at all.
 
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