Confirmed Signing with Link: [ARI] Michael Stone (1 year, $4M)

[howkie]

Would you gamble on a massive multi-year contract when the guy just had amassive knee-surgery? I would not, he could maybe never get fully recoverd. A 1 year deal is the only logic step

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

That blue line is pretty horrendous. RNH isn't really needed. I suspect that the only scenario in which we trade Stone is as part of a package for an upgrade on Stone.

We could always flip RNH for a RH defender afterwards. Should have no difficulties...

oh wait, ...

But New Jersey just made a very similar decision, and they had even less RHD depth and defensive depth overall than the Coyotes . They saw that a young top line forward was available for a player who is not himself considered elite at his position yet, and knew that they could probably internally fill the hole created with time and development of their own assets. However, they simply did not have a Taylor Hall waiting in the wings.

In this case, Arizona is not likely to be competitive for 2016-17, so it makes sense to grab a young center who is signed long-term for a player that may not be there in a year. RNH immediately becomes your best center and there's not even really a question; Strome and Dvorak might one day get there, but I can't imagine either being ready for top line duty even next year. On the flipside, the Coyotes have DeAngelo and others who could conceivably break through, and the team has had no problem signing UFAs as evidenced by this summer. Trading a #3/4 D for a 1C is a win every single time, no matter how you slice it.

It has everything to do with Expansion and nothing to do with that

Yeah except for this little wrinkle, which was just posted up-thread:

During a normal season, NHL teams are strictly prohibited from speaking to pending UFAs until the league year begins on July 1st. However, if a UFA is left unprotected in the Expansion Draft, Las Vegas will be granted exclusive rights to negotiate a contract with the player during the three day draft period on June 17-20. If Las Vegas comes to an agreement with a player, and a deal is signed, that player is considered Vegas’ selection in the draft from the UFAs current team.

I don't see this as some crafty GMing. There's far too much risk for the Coyotes to just walk a decent young talent like that right to the open market on the strength of a handshake.

 

[cobra427]

But New Jersey just made a very similar decision, and they had even less RHD depth and defensive depth overall than the Coyotes . They saw that a young top line forward was available for a player who is not himself considered elite at his position yet, and knew that they could probably internally fill the hole created with time and development of their own assets. However, they simply did not have a Taylor Hall waiting in the wings.

In this case, Arizona is not likely to be competitive for 2016-17, so it makes sense to grab a young center who is signed long-term for a player that may not be there in a year. RNH immediately becomes your best center and there's not even really a question; Strome and Dvorak might one day get there, but I can't imagine either being ready for top line duty even next year. On the flipside, the Coyotes have DeAngelo and others who could conceivably break through, and the team has had no problem signing UFAs as evidenced by this summer. Trading a #3/4 D for a 1C is a win every single time, no matter how you slice it.



Yeah except for this little wrinkle, which was just posted up-thread:



I don't see this as some crafty GMing. There's far too much risk for the Coyotes to just walk a decent young talent like that right to the open market on the strength of a handshake.

Trading Stone for RNH would kill the Coyotes D. Our replacement for Stone would be Shenn or Z, both major down grades. Also, RNH is not a 1C. Hanzal, if healthy is better than RNH and we have Strome and DVO coming this year or next. We are good on center depth.

The Coyotes #1 need is an upgraded RHD, meaning one that is better than Stone or Murphy. If Stone is traded it will likely be a package for a better RHD.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Trading Stone for RNH would kill the Coyotes D.

OEL and Goligsoki are the centerpieces of the Arizona D last time I checked, and are each capable of anchoring a pairing- OEL against top competition, Goligoski in a lesser ES role. Meanwhile, you're not going to win a thing with Hanzal or Vermette as 1Cs. It's on par with being as difficult a hole to fill as finding a top D, which is why the Johansen for Jones trade happened. In this instance, Arizona's most valuable/proven RHD is one year away from UFA. Why not, if the option is there, move him for a long-term solution down the middle?

Also, RNH is not a 1C. Hanzal, if healthy is better than RNH

There's absolutely zero evidence to support that. You're vastly overrating Hanzal.

Also, there's the little matter that both he AND Vermette are UFAs next summer. The best pivot hitting the market in 2019 is 38-year-old Joe Thornton- not exactly a player who will help you long-term. A trade is the only way to address that weakness.

and we have Strome and DVO coming this year or next. We are good on center depth.

Take it from an Edmonton fan; having a 20-or-under center who isn't named Connor McDavid or Sidney Crosby run your first line is a terrible idea. There's also no guarantee either even reach the floor of an RNH, never mind become better players. Strome might well be better as a winger and Dvorak is years away from being able to take on that sort of role. It also doesn't appear the 2017 draft will have an immediate impact center on offer. Again, a trade is the only to address that need.

The Coyotes #1 need is an upgraded RHD, meaning one that is better than Stone or Murphy. If Stone is traded it will likely be a package for a better RHD.

On a team with a premier #1 in OEL, a decent #2 in Goligoski and strong 3/4 options all the way down, defence is absolutely the last place the Coyotes should be focusing. Granted, Chayka seems to follow your thinking, but if his blueprint to win a Cup involves Martin Hanzal at 1C, that young chap might want to close the spreadsheets for a couple minutes and actually assess what he has on the ice.

 

[Kaibur]

I'm curious if you think Edmonton is going to be a playoff contender next year. Coyotes missed by 9; Oilers missed by 17. I think the Coyotes could manage to be a bubble team this year while breaking in a bunch more rookies. (They broke in 5 full time rookies last season).

I actually would trade Stone & Vermette for RNH, although Vermette has a NMC, and I think convincing him to waive would be a very hard sell. But I would want to have another deal lined up to fill that 4RD position. Maybe Rieder + Dahlbeck for 4RD, or Perlini & K-Conn, something like that.

 

[_Del_]

I have doubts that RNH would thrive under Tippett. Wouldn't want to pay $6M a year to find out.
Zero interest in having one of Z or Schenn playing top four minutes on my end.
Maybe you can convince AGMJC though that's doubtful considering he's rumoured to be trying to upgrade the D...
Unless something changes its an easy pass, imo.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

I'm curious if you think Edmonton is going to be a playoff contender next year. Coyotes missed by 9; Oilers missed by 17. I think the Coyotes could manage to be a bubble team this year while breaking in a bunch more rookies. (They broke in 5 full time rookies last season).

I don't think the Oilers get any higher than 10th in the West if things remain how they are. Add a player like Stone, though? I believe playoffs are an excellent possibility.

I actually would trade Stone & Vermette for RNH, although Vermette has a NMC, and I think convincing him to waive would be a very hard sell.

Vermette has been a stand-up guy throughout his time in Arizona, and with him one year away from being allowed to choose his destination I don't think he'd actively attempt to prevent a trade that improved the club from happening. The only player I can recall ever using their NMC to block a trade in their last contract year was Sundin ages ago.

But I would want to have another deal lined up to fill that 4RD position. Maybe Rieder + Dahlbeck for 4RD, or Perlini & K-Conn, something like that.

I think those sorts of packages could return the kind of short-term fill-in you'd be after in order to mind the store between now and whenever DeAngelo is ready. Arizona also has a ton of cap space and is once again a seemingly desirable destination for UFAs. It could certainly work.

 

[cobra427]

OEL and Goligsoki are the centerpieces of the Arizona D last time I checked, and are each capable of anchoring a pairing- OEL against top competition, Goligoski in a lesser ES role. Meanwhile, you're not going to win a thing with Hanzal or Vermette as 1Cs. It's on par with being as difficult a hole to fill as finding a top D, which is why the Johansen for Jones trade happened. In this instance, Arizona's most valuable/proven RHD is one year away from UFA. Why not, if the option is there, move him for a long-term solution down the middle?



There's absolutely zero evidence to support that. You're vastly overrating Hanzal.

Also, there's the little matter that both he AND Vermette are UFAs next summer. The best pivot hitting the market in 2019 is 38-year-old Joe Thornton- not exactly a player who will help you long-term. A trade is the only way to address that weakness.



Take it from an Edmonton fan; having a 20-or-under center who isn't named Connor McDavid or Sidney Crosby run your first line is a terrible idea. There's also no guarantee either even reach the floor of an RNH, never mind become better players. Strome might well be better as a winger and Dvorak is years away from being able to take on that sort of role. It also doesn't appear the 2017 draft will have an immediate impact center on offer. Again, a trade is the only to address that need.



On a team with a premier #1 in OEL, a decent #2 in Goligoski and strong 3/4 options all the way down, defence is absolutely the last place the Coyotes should be focusing. Granted, Chayka seems to follow your thinking, but if his blueprint to win a Cup involves Martin Hanzal at 1C, that young chap might want to close the spreadsheets for a couple minutes and actually assess what he has on the ice.

OEL/Gogo are LHD's. Without Stone, we have Murphy(second pairing), Shenn(3rd pairing), and Z(third pairing and I'm being generous). We would have 2 D men playing a line above where they should be. That won't help our 28th in the NHL PK% or our 28th in the NHL GAA%. When healthy, Hanzal is a better 1C than RNH. Hanzal is better on D, so is Vermette. Hanzal is really a 2C as is RNH. Both Hanzal and Vermette can fill the void until Strome or Dvo develops. RNH won't improve our D overall and that is our biggest problem.

 

[bossram]

The expansion draft scenario does make a lot of sense if teams promise deals signed right after so they don't lose a guy that

They'd have to have a "gentleman's agreement" deal in place then. Otherwise there is a real risk to lose him to UFA.