Are you happy with Claude returning for 2016/2017? | Page 9 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Are you happy with Claude returning for 2016/2017?

Most were saying the Bruins would miss the playoffs before the season and that they had the worst defense in the league.

Having the worst D in the league in contention to make the playoffs is not overachieving with the hand given to him?

Most were saying they were a bubble team, and that was true. However, with weeks left in the season, they were in first place. They should have made it. And they didn't have the worst d in the league. There were 11 teams that allowed more goals than they did. They were middle third, which is good enough with their scoring to have made it.
 
I'm not excited to see Claude back behind the bench. I've felt for a long time that while the results with his system as undeniable. It brings a boring tempo to the game. The game is supposed to be entertaining and I can count on 1 hand the amount of must see regular season games during his tenure.
 
not me, in my opinion, the one who I worry or am most concerned about is Cam, not sure he and Sweeney have the same vision.

I`d trust Sweeney to make the right moves before I trust Cam

Sweeney is Cam's man, isn't he? He's the one who reportedly pushed for Sweeney to replace Chiarelli.

I'm not excited to see Claude back behind the bench. I've felt for a long time that while the results with his system as undeniable. It brings a boring tempo to the game. The game is supposed to be entertaining and I can count on 1 hand the amount of must see regular season games during his tenure.

Agreed.
 
Most were saying they were a bubble team, and that was true. However, with weeks left in the season, they were in first place. They should have made it. And they didn't have the worst d in the league. There were 11 teams that allowed more goals than they did. They were middle third, which is good enough with their scoring to have made it.

Bruins weren't the worst defensive team, far from it. Team defense will never be a weakness on a Claude Julien coached team. But it certainly wasn't a strength this year like past Julien teams.

But saying they had one of the worst groups of Defense-men in the league probably wasn't far off.
 
I honestly do not know the direction of the team.
All the moves Sweeney has made, trades of established players for
draft picks, indicate he is looking at a 3 to 5 year window to compete
again. That does not jive with the need to make the playoffs now
mantra hearing from Jacobs.
Could be the next mgmt team will look like geniuses if they get hired and
Sweeneys draft picks come to fruition.
 
I honestly do not know the direction of the team.
All the moves Sweeney has made, trades of established players for
draft picks, indicate he is looking at a 3 to 5 year window to compete
again. That does not jive with the need to make the playoffs now
mantra hearing from Jacobs.
Could be the next mgmt team will look like geniuses if they get hired and
Sweeneys draft picks come to fruition.

making the playoffs and competing for the Cup aren` necessarily things that go hand in hand. I don`t think this is anywhere close to a 3-5 year window before this team makes Cup conversations again, predicted 2017/18 being a year many here will be yakking about it

There were/are more than a few teams who I didn`t/don`t consider Cup contending teams but playoff teams this year
 
It's 99% sure Claude would have been a Senator had we let him go, or worse a Hab. So I'm doubly happy we didn't let him go within the division.
 
It's 99% sure Claude would have been a Senator had we let him go, or worse a Hab. So I'm doubly happy we didn't let him go within the division.

Why do you care where he goes? If you fire him, it's because he's not what's needed going forward for your team. Why are people bothered by him resigning within the division?
 
Why do you care where he goes? If you fire him, it's because he's not what's needed going forward for your team. Why are people bothered by him resigning within the division?

If you fire him, its so you can start a real re-build. No one is going to take the current team to the top. So fire Claude, hire Cassidy for one season, get a top 5 pick next year, sign an UFA defenseman, then hire a real coach.
 
If you fire him, its so you can start a real re-build. No one is going to take the current team to the top. So fire Claude, hire Cassidy for one season, get a top 5 pick next year, sign an UFA defenseman, then hire a real coach.

and break the internet at the same time:laugh:
 
If you fire him, its so you can start a real re-build. No one is going to take the current team to the top. So fire Claude, hire Cassidy for one season, get a top 5 pick next year, sign an UFA defenseman, then hire a real coach.

I'm all for this. I think Clode will get the ax next year once the rebuild really starts.
 
Why do you care where he goes? If you fire him, it's because he's not what's needed going forward for your team. Why are people bothered by him resigning within the division?

For the same reason I'm extremely glad Seguin wasn't traded inside the division. I'm sure you can devise why that is. Btw firing someone (or trading them) is most certainly not always what the team needs. Sometimes it's

-change for the sake of change
-someone needing a scapegoat
-just a bad decision to begin with
-you picking the best of a bad situation (trade a coach or trade a star player)
 
It's 99% sure Claude would have been a Senator had we let him go, or worse a Hab. So I'm doubly happy we didn't let him go within the division.

For the same reason I'm extremely glad Seguin wasn't traded inside the division. I'm sure you can devise why that is. Btw firing someone (or trading them) is most certainly not always what the team needs. Sometimes it's

-change for the sake of change
-someone needing a scapegoat
-just a bad decision to begin with
-you picking the best of a bad situation (trade a coach or trade a star player)

AGREE wholeheartedly with these assessments!:handclap: I felt the same way. If they let him go too soon he'd be going back (possibly) to Montreal but more than likely to his home team, the Senators.
 
Most were saying they were a bubble team, and that was true. However, with weeks left in the season, they were in first place. They should have made it. And they didn't have the worst d in the league. There were 11 teams that allowed more goals than they did. They were middle third, which is good enough with their scoring to have made it.

With the actual dmen that he had at his disposal, doesn't that say quite a lot about him as a coach?
 
Unhappy (big shocker there huh ;) ).

I heard Mike Sullivan during an in-game interview say something very interesting. I've heard the phrase before and it sort of struck a nerve with me. While speaking about a player when down by a goal (IIRC), he said (paraphrasing): "I want him to make better decisions, but I don't want to take the stick out of his hands"

To me that's what Claude can't balance in his coaching style. In the course of trying to execute his game plan (even a hybrid version of it), the players begin to make the decisions they believe make him happy. They start to not trust their own instincts and become far too mechanical. While last year was a different and more offensive version, it was still of the same ilk.

I get the whole bootcamp style mentality. Break em down and rebuild them in the image they need to be in order fit into the system. But it just takes too long to find the players able to, and/or willing to do that. It's an arduous process that seems non-condusive to offensive minded players. It's as if the stars have to align so perfectly for his philosophy to go deep, it isn't worth the wait anymore. And just how many picks, prospects and drafts go by the wayside in the process? Or how many simply don't get a shot, or worse don't ever come here? In contrast, at the beginning Jon Cooper's tenure with the Bolts, when asked about a gameplan/philosophy he essentially said he didn't have one. That he wanted assess his team before imprinting anything on them. It's not the end of the world if you simply let players use their instincts honed over 1000s of hours since childhood. And in a few short years their going deep and without Stamkos.

To me the NHL is like modern Jazz. In that the performers/players are a culmination of their previous experiences. For the untrained ear it sounds like only slightly organized chaos (as I'm sure you've all heard from other sports fans at times). In reality it's a group of men using their long practiced talents in a loosely themed objective. Each with a certain forte they temper in order to mesh well with the others. Hopefully while still not losing that individuality. But unlike Jazz the NHL seems to be more easily enjoyed by the average viewer/listener. Or at least that's what the game has become with the influx of talent over the past 3 decades. Gone are the days of rigidly defined game plans and philosophies, where every part is written out and adhered to (Duke Ellington Swing as an analogy). A sound that is the aspiration of one leader (Dorsey, Miller, Goodman). The NHL today is more like the post-Swing era of Beboop. Which was comprised of musicians from the previous era, the best of the best who wanted to break away from the more rigid confines of one man's quest for a certain sound. BeBoop musicians fed off of each other, loosely held together by a common theme. They improvised longer, more often and in places determined by the that particular jam session or performance.

O.K I just re-watched Ken Burns' "Jazz". But you get the idea, and can see it firsthand while watching these P.Os. The amount of turnovers would give Claude apoplexy. But for every truly bad turn over that a goaltender can't bale you out of created are dozens of potential starts to exciting chains of events. Even if only a few result in goals. Nobody tees up a blind drop pass for a blistering shot on goal if that drop pass is never made. No one is going to make an outside move on the weakside if someone doesn't blindly fire a pass across the ice east to west without really knowing the exact recipient.

I like Duke Ellington, but that era is gone and the genius of one man isn't what players need anymore to create entertaining music. I just don't see Claude as being part of any of this unless he changes drastically. For various reason he's a stabilizing force we need at the moment. But is giving him one more year only delaying for year where we need to be?
 
I get the whole bootcamp style mentality. Break em down and rebuild them in the image they need to be in order fit into the system.
I find this to be a contrived narrative to fit the anti-Claude agenda. Players are not broken down and rebuilt. Weaknesses are identified and addressed thus making players more complete and fit to play the NHL game. This is a good thing.
 
He'll be going into next season with a very short leash. He's a good coach and the B's brass knows this and weren't prepared to let hm go when other teams were looking for coaching replacements (Ottawa and possible Mtl).

As soon as he hit the open market more than likely other coaching vacancy would of happen quickly for the shot at Juilen. I wished they would of taken a different route a newer fresher look a coach who likes to play an uptempo style and let the younger talented players learn by their mistakes. That means putting them right back on the ice not the press box or Providence once they do make a mistake.

My guess is he doesn't make it through the season.
 
disfigured said:
I get the whole bootcamp style mentality. Break em down and rebuild them in the image they need to be in order fit into the system.
I find this to be a contrived narrative to fit the anti-Claude agenda. Players are not broken down and rebuilt. Weaknesses are identified and addressed thus making players more complete and fit to play the NHL game. This is a good thing.

Tomatos Tomatoes. It's still the system that takes precedent. And in some cases offensive flair and risky creativity are treated as undesirable traits.

With the grit and nastiness taken out of the game, having ever player fit a predetermined role, many of those roles nearly identical, it makes for a boring product.

It works, I'm not saying it doesn't. It just doesn't take at team very far very often even when it's firing on all cylinders. And it's getting to be a less and less effective way to play the game.

At this point Management and Julien are like a couple that had a fantastic one stand, but don't realize it was one time thing. They're groping around trying different things never realizing that the only way for it to happen again is with different partners.
 
While I lacked a lot of specific criticism for Claude this year (relative to other seasons), I was/am certainly ready to part ways.

What concerns me far more however is the whole "grand scheme" of this organization. It seems like their egos were inflated so largely by the 2011 Cup run. Drafting was not good, overall, under PC's tenure and I wouldn't doubt they've associated much of the "core" as being from transactions outside his time as GM. Not wrong...I wanted PC gone too.

However, the Cup run in which everything came together just right (one of the best PO goaltending performances EVER by Tim Thomas, unbelievable performances from DK and Marchand...out of the blue at the time...catching Chara at the end of his dominant reign, etc.) seems to have really affected the egos of the whole organization. As it was in the 2014-2015 season, there seems to be a "just go for the playoffs, you never know what can happen" mentality since their 2011 run really was pretty unlikely. After their failures in 2009 and 2010, there were plenty of more favored teams. Despite the "unlikeliness", the 2009-2012 teams were undoubtedly better balanced. And you NEED balance, especially on the defensive side of things. This has been proven by statistics. You don't just want or prefer it, you NEED it. It's undeniable. There was absolutely no logic in going for anything this year. A team hasn't won the Cup in 6 years that was below top 3 in team defense (goals allowed). The Bruins were 20 something. I mean...come on.

I don't know if there is pressure from the Jacobs family to always "go for it", but that sure as hell has backfired mightily the last couple years. Dealing Seguin, especially for the return that came back, looks like a move totally based on ego. Did someone actually say "we're champions not babysitters." in ****ing 2013, two years after winning the Cup???? That's shockingly idiotic thinking. You're running a professional sports organization geared toward winning. It's not something to get all emotional over. Whoever the **** that guy was...I don't trust anyone who says something like that to make a legitimately professional decision.

Guess what I'm saying is...I'm worried about the whole culture. I'm afraid there's personal relationships between all the guys in charge, and non-emotional, professional decisions aren't being made. Very well could have dripped down to Julien. I'm sure DS and co. ask for his input on personnel decisions, and I'm sure Charlie/Jeremy are in there somehow as well.

All I know is whatever we've got going on has failed miserably the last two seasons and yes, CJ has been a part of it. I can't say I'm happy with him being back but I understand that the team can succeed if others step up to the plate and tough decisions are made without relying on emotion or ego.
 
TAt this point Management and Julien are like a couple that had a fantastic one stand, but don't realize it was one time thing. They're groping around trying different things never realizing that the only way for it to happen again is with different partners.

Good analogy. Maybe Julien is considered to be a placeholder coach for the coming season while the team transitions to one with more young players on the roster and longer-term outlook for success. For the 2017-18 season, we will see someone new behind the bench who is better suited to handling a young roster.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad