Are you feeling more or less optimistic about the leafs future since Dubas took over?

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Do you feel like the leafs have a better or worse future compared to when Dubas took over on May 11th, 2018?

I was extremely optimistic when Dubas took over, and even more so when he signed Tavares. I believed the Leafs were going to end the cup drought in 5 years or less. I believed we would sign Matthews and Marner in the summer of 2018, and then Nylander before training camp. I figured nylander would sign for about 6.5 over 6-7 years, Marner at about 8-9 over 6-8 years, and Matthews to 10-11 million over 7-8 years. Many, many on here were saying the exact same things, with a large percentage of posters even suggesting lower than that.

After losing to Boston in 2019 again in the first round and then this season’s less than stellar play, I am much less convinced that we will end the cup drought. I hope I am dead wrong.

Click to read more...

 

[biotk]

Less. Much less. But much of it has little to do with Dubas.

I don't feel that Lou would have got the NMM to sign good contracts. I always felt that part of the reason why Lou was removed was because he was getting no where with Nylander and the organization knew that all three were not interested in signing for a penny less than the absolute most they extract from the Leafs. I think that there is a cultural problem that has developed in the Leafs - and I feel that it developed under Lou and Babs. Throughout the summer of 2018 I said that NMM were going to be extremely difficult and expensive to sign. Probably one or more of NMM would no longer be Leafs if Lou was still here. I also highly doubt Lou would have managed to acquire Tavares.

I said when Matthews signed that the Leafs' chances of winning a cup over the next several years were near zero - maybe in the last year or two of Matthews' contract because the cap would have gone up a lot by then. Those already near zero chances dropped further when Marner signed - to the point where the team will struggle to remain a playoff team until the cap goes up. And those near zero chances for the next several years have been extended in years as the cap in unlikely to go up for several more years. The team will probably not be more than bubble team for the duration of the Matthews and Marner contracts. They will still be entertaining though.

The best this team has played was their series against Washington. They have significant roster problems and don't have the cap space to fix those problems unless they send out a major contract.

 

[deletethis]

Less but I was very optimistic and now am still quite optimistic.

The contracts have not been handled well as they disappointed in both length and cap expense.
Dubas did plug the right holes (backup goalie, rugged winger,) after I was convinced he was going to ignore those issues with the make up of the team.
Really it isn't Dubas who has affected my optimism the most. During Dubas' reign I've had to alter what I'm expecting from the team's star players. A couple of them aren't as mature individuals as I thought they were. I really don't get the vibe that the team's star players care all that much about team related goals. This team may score its way to a championship one year with a hot goalie but my lofty dreams of dynasty seem to be over.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Less. Much less. But much of it has little to do with Dubas.

I don't feel that Lou would have got the NMM to sign good contracts. I always felt that part of the reason why Lou was removed was because he was getting no where with Nylander and the organization knew that all three were not interested in signing for a penny less than the absolute most they extract from the Leafs. I think that there is a cultural problem that has developed in the Leafs - and I feel that it developed under Lou and Babs. Throughout the summer of 2018 I said that NMM were going to be extremely difficult and expensive to sign. Probably one or more of NMM would no longer be Leafs if Lou was still here. I also highly doubt Lou would have managed to acquire Tavares.

I said when Matthews signed that the Leafs' chances of winning a cup over the next several years were near zero - maybe in the last year or two of Matthews' contract because the cap would have gone up a lot by then. Those already near zero chances dropped further when Marner signed - to the point where the team will struggle to remain a playoff team until the cap goes up. And those near zero chances for the next several years have been extended in years as the cap in unlikely to go up for several more years. The team will probably not be more than bubble team for the duration of the Matthews and Marner contracts. They will still be entertaining though.

The best this team has played was their series against Washington. They have significant roster problems and don't have the cap space to fix those problems unless they send out a major contract.

Do you think playing hard ball with all three of NMM could have been done? As in, you will sit until you sign this (insert x amount of dollars) contract? Do you think sitting Nylander for the rest of the season in 2018-2019 would have set the tone for Matthews and Marner? Or was there another alternative compared to the 3 contracts?

 

[IPS]

Less. Much less. But much of it has little to do with Dubas.

I don't feel that Lou would have got the NMM to sign good contracts. I always felt that part of the reason why Lou was removed was because he was getting no where with Nylander and the organization knew that all three were not interested in signing for a penny less than the absolute most they extract from the Leafs. I think that there is a cultural problem that has developed in the Leafs - and I feel that it developed under Lou and Babs. Throughout the summer of 2018 I said that NMM were going to be extremely difficult and expensive to sign. Probably one or more of NMM would no longer be Leafs if Lou was still here. I also highly doubt Lou would have managed to acquire Tavares.

I said when Matthews signed that the Leafs' chances of winning a cup over the next several years were near zero - maybe in the last year or two of Matthews' contract because the cap would have gone up a lot by then. Those already near zero chances dropped further when Marner signed - to the point where the team will struggle to remain a playoff team until the cap goes up. And those near zero chances for the next several years have been extended in years as the cap in unlikely to go up for several more years. The team will probably not be more than bubble team for the duration of the Matthews and Marner contracts. They will still be entertaining though.

The best this team has played was their series against Washington. They have significant roster problems and don't have the cap space to fix those problems unless they send out a major contract.

Might have got a glimpse of it when Lou needlessly withheld Marner's schedule B ELC bonuses. The drama was there right from day 1 between Leafs management and Marner's camp.

As far as Matthews went, there's not too much on the record about why he went out to milk the Leafs for every penny. He likely told management that they either meet his demands or he's taking the offer sheet. Personally I still think the relationship between him and Babcock was completely rotten too, which made things very bad. Was very refreshing to see his on ice effort level come back to normal once Babcock was fired, it was beyond disgraceful before that.

Basically Leafs management needlessly made messes that didn't need to be made.

Do you think playing hard ball with all three of NMM could have been done? As in, you will sit until you sign this (insert x amount of dollars) contract? Do you think sitting Nylander for the rest of the season in 2018-2019 would have set the tone for Matthews and Marner? Or was there another alternative compared to the 3 contracts?

I think it was all difference circumstances TBH.

Babcock witholding ice time/PP time from Matthews was just completely stupid. They weren't giving the kid the maximum opportunities to optimize production to help out his contract negotiations and he likely threw it back in their faces in negotiations and told them to meet his high demands or he's signing an offer sheet.

Marner was just like I said, Lou shorted him his ELC bonuses and that caused heat from day 1.

 

[Cor]

The only two checks against Dubas is the Mitch Marner contract and the backup goalie debacle, though Dubas resolved that nicely.

In order to get this team to where it needs to be, it might require a tough move, such as moving off Marner and his contract.

It’s always a TBD scenario. Dubas has shown he can be aggressive to bring in pieces when it’s needed. Muzzin suited our needs. Clifford suited our needs. Campbell suited our needs.

One thing that impresses me a ton is Dubas’ recruitment abilities. He seems to be the best GM we’ve had in this regard. Whether it’s bringing over Russian/Euro FA’s, or going after CHL overagers, or even traditional FA’s, he seems to be really good at getting guys to see the appeal of joining the organization.


At the end of the day, none of us have actual answers. We all have ideas of what we want done, but ifs and buts don't matter.


So two things I’m looking at right now;
1. There’s a hard move coming in the future. Who will it be and what will it return.
2. Andersen is in his last year of his deal. I’m all for extending him, but I’m very weary of giving goalies long term deals, especially given his play this year. Do we extend him? Trade him and acquire a different goalie via FA (Lehner) or trade (Murray, Jarry, Fleury).

 

[biotk]

Do you think playing hard ball with all three of NMM could have been done? As in, you will sit until you sign this (insert x amount of dollars) contract? Do you think sitting Nylander for the rest of the season in 2018-2019 would have set the tone for Matthews and Marner? Or was there another alternative compared to the 3 contracts?

Maybe. Maybe not. Nylander was prepared to sit the season. Matthews 100% would have received an OS from Arizona. Marner may have accepted an OS if he felt he was getting dicked around by Lou.

My honest opinion - and I could be completely on this - which I have been saying on here since the summer of 2018 when almost everyone thought NMM were going to sign cheap contracts, is that Shanahan knew that NMM had a strong dislike of Babs and Lou and were simply not going to play ball. Therefore Shanahan felt that a friendly face might reduce some of animosity and maybe get the kids to be more reasonable. It didn't work.

 

[Gabriel426]

Dubas is okay so far as GM. Would have been interesting to see if Zai would have wanted to stay under Keefe and how his play will translate under Keefe’s system.
This is completely hindsight but I think if BAbs was gone in last summer, Zai might have stayed with the Leafs. Brown and Kadri(due to getting suspended again) will be traded for a RHD and for cap reason. Then sign Boyle for a min contract to play 4C and Spezza plays 3C.
The lineup at Camp

Kap-AM-Willie
AJ-JT-MM
Moore-Spezza-Soup
Shore-Boyle-Tima

Reilly-RHD via trade for Brown and Kadri
Muzzin-Zai
Marincin-Holl

Andersen and Hutch

Dermott and Hyman were injured and the Leafs still have the backup goalie problem

 

[biotk]

Might have got a glimpse of it when Lou needlessly withheld Marner's schedule B ELC bonuses. The drama was there right from day 1 between Leafs management and Marner's camp.

Exactly correct. It was idiotic. They flexed their muscles when they had all the power and he had none, and then he returned the favour when the roles were reversed.

On a separate note Sandin opted to receive no performance bonuses even though the guy drafted immediately after him is eligible for almost 1M over the course of his ELC because he knew that those performance bonuses might delay him getting into the lineup.

As far as Matthews went, there's not too much on the record about why he went out to milk the Leafs for every penny. He likely told management that they either meet his demands or he's taking the offer sheet. Personally I still think the relationship between him and Babcock was completely rotten too, which made things very bad. Was very refreshing to see his on ice effort level come back to normal once Babcock was fired, it was beyond disgraceful before that.

Basically Leafs management needlessly made messes that didn't need to be made.

Agreed. Imagine being a superstar, but playing for a coach you hate who is under contract for years to come, and you have your hometown franchise that is dying to get you.

Babcock witholding ice time/PP time from Matthews was just completely stupid.

Yes, and many on here celebrated that because they thought it was going to result in the big three signing cheaper contracts...when in reality it just pisses people off and makes them not want to work with you.

 

[Mickey Marner]

My optimism peaked in the Washington series and has steadily declined from the Marleau signing onwards.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Less but not by much and it's mostly got to do with overpaying Marner and the stagnant due to Covid. The first is on Dubas, the 2nd obviously isn't, but it's a factor that changes things regardless

 

[rent free]

less optomistic.

the leafs were in good hands under lou. then dubas came along and ruined everything.

this organization hasn't had a great team in so long. it's pathetic really.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

More.

Dubas has done a great job addressing holes and fixing messes left behind by the previous regime.

Anyone thinking this team would be in better shape under Lou needs to look at the disastrous cap situation he's brought upon the Islanders in record time. His penchant for committing huge dollars to middling talent is simply astounding.

All this and he still needs to get Barzal signed this offseason.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Can we at least agree that we're better at growing our assets than under Lou? You can disagree about what kind of assets we should be getting or what we turn them into, but we can agree that this is the most collectively valuable team we've had in decades right?

Drafting Robertson instead of renting Plekanec and signing Spezza instead of Komarov is nice no?

 

[Metroid]

I'm in between more and less, but more on the more side. I feel Dubas will keep surprising us (like that recent signing that no one even linked the leafs to)

 

[Canada4Gold]

More.

Dubas has done a great job addressing holes and fixing messes left behind by the previous regime.

Anyone thinking this team would be in better shape under Lou needs to look at the disastrous cap situation he's brought upon the Islanders in record time. His penchant for committing huge dollars to middling talent is simply astounding.

All this and he still needs to get Barzal signed this offseason.

I didn’t see it as Lou v. Dubas but how confident you are the day dubas took over compared to now. I had a lot of confidence in Dubas and I still do, so my outlook was very high then and it still is. Just ever so slightly lower because of Marner contract and the unforeseen cap squeeze with COVID.

If the question is now v when Lou was in charge then it’s a no brainer

 

[Nineteen67]

As long as there is a league I’m quite certain the Leafs will be involved despite the fact they have not been an entertaining team to watch lately.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Less. Is that all on Dubas? No. It’s mostly on the lack of “give a f***s” players on the team have exhibited.

 

[ottomaddox]

I voted less only because of the on-ice product. This was a very frustrating season. Losing game 6 and 7 last year was awful too.

 

[4thline]

My honest opinion - and I could be completely on this - which I have been saying on here since the summer of 2018 when almost everyone thought NMM were going to sign cheap contracts, is that Shanahan knew that NMM had a strong dislike of Babs and Lou and were simply not going to play ball. Therefore Shanahan felt that a friendly face might reduce some of animosity and maybe get the kids to be more reasonable. It didn't work.

I think this may well be right.

But I don't share the negative view point moving forward. We have the cap to ice a viable defense, it's just a matter of personnel. We need another vet, and then for our youth to step up. And while that friendly face may not have won over in the short term, 5-6 positive years coupled with maturation following an amicable negotiation may just go along way. Keeping the talent in the organization was huge.

 

[Guy Boucher]

More and less.

 

[ACC1224]

More.

Dubas has done a great job addressing holes and fixing messes left behind by the previous regime.

Anyone thinking this team would be in better shape under Lou needs to look at the disastrous cap situation he's brought upon the Islanders in record time. His penchant for committing huge dollars to middling talent is simply astounding.

All this and he still needs to get Barzal signed this offseason.

Why does Lou Lams disastrous cap make you feel more optimistic? If the Isles has a good cap situation would you feel less optimistic?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Why does Lou Lams disastrous cap make you feel more optimistic? If the Isles has a good cap situation would you feel less optimistic?

I addressed why I feel optimistic in the 1st half of my post. Perhaps you should reread it.

 

[ACC1224]

I addressed why I feel optimistic in the 1st half of my post. Perhaps you should reread it.

Got it. It was just a random thought.
Agreed though, the Isles suck.

 

[Bomber0104]

Teams eventually start taking on the characteristics of their architects.

The Leafs have become, almost overnight with Dubas in charge, a bunch of paper tigers.

If you haven't noticed this you either don't know hockey as a sport or you're too in love with Leafs to be honest with yourself.