featherhawk
Registered User
- Dec 13, 2006
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Are we in a lull of NHL goaltending talent?
- Thread starter Freaky Styley
- Start date
MrHeiskanen
Registered User
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,685
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You said Bishop doesn't have #1 stats..
1.98 GAA - 0.934 SV%
and
2.50 GAA - 0.920 SV%
Over the last two seasons. Seems like pretty good #1 stats to me?
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
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Vasy is very good and I would argue could soon be in that category but I'm talking about over a longer period than he has been in the league.
Rask has been solid but has fluctuated between above average and really good.
ManwithNoIdentity
Registered User
Mickey Marner
Registered User
The bottom-end goalies are also the best they've ever been making it harder to standout. Canadian goalies have gone in the shitter for sure though. In the 2002 Olympics they had Brodeur, Joseph and Belfour, plus Theodore, Roy and Burke finished 1-2-3 in Vezina voting that same season.
MattySnipes
Registered User
Not too many goalies I like post-2000.
All my favourite goalies are from the 80's - 90's.
If I had to pick a few maybe I go:
Prime Price (Habs I know
), Vasilevskiy.
All my favourite goalies are from the 80's - 90's.
If I had to pick a few maybe I go:
Prime Price (Habs I know
), Vasilevskiy.
pucksakes666
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2018
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- May 1, 2011
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He’s a has-been. Probably the biggest has-been in the league. He’s been a below average goalie since 17-18. His save percentage since the start of 17-18 (including playoffs) is .907%.
I mean, Bobrovsky had a terrible season last year and his contract is horrid. Price has a bad contract and had that one horrific season, but at least he’s been a bit better than Holtby over the last combined 3 years. Lundqvist has had several meh years in a row, but he’s significantly older than all those guys. Same with Rinne. Fleury had a mediocre season last year, but he’s also older and has been in the league for way longer. Quick has had a couple bad years in a row now, but really not many people that aren’t Kings fans even think he’s any good anymore and he was even underrated for a few years before his decline (definitely not in 2012, but from 2015-2018) anyway.
Holtby still has a bit of a reputation, but it’s very dated now.
- May 1, 2011
- 135,531
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I just went over one of the biggest things I’ve noticed about goalies now in my last post.
One thing that’s very noticeable is that the elite goalies are declining much earlier now. Luongo was still as good (although very injury plagued) in his second and third to last year in the league as he was for most of his career. It wasn’t until his last season at age 39 that fell off. Crawford was still pretty damn good until the end, though also injury plagued, but even he didn’t play a game last age 35. Brodeur’s decline in was hugely overstated and he was terrible particularly in his last two years with the Devils, but he was elite until he was 38. Lundqvist was still elite until he was 34 or so.
But the guys who were the best in the league say 5 years ago are all really falling apart now or started to barely at 30. Holtby was even younger than that.
One thing that’s very noticeable is that the elite goalies are declining much earlier now. Luongo was still as good (although very injury plagued) in his second and third to last year in the league as he was for most of his career. It wasn’t until his last season at age 39 that fell off. Crawford was still pretty damn good until the end, though also injury plagued, but even he didn’t play a game last age 35. Brodeur’s decline in was hugely overstated and he was terrible particularly in his last two years with the Devils, but he was elite until he was 38. Lundqvist was still elite until he was 34 or so.
But the guys who were the best in the league say 5 years ago are all really falling apart now or started to barely at 30. Holtby was even younger than that.
- May 1, 2011
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- 66,473
Here’s a great topic I wanted to talk about.
Who has the worst contract in the league among goalies? Obviously, Price at $10.5 million for 5 more years after this one is a pretty bad one, but he’s still putting up at least decent seasons, outside of 17-18. He was pretty good in 18-19 and just okay last year. But Price was on another level at the time he got this contract. Definitely a good argument to be made that he was the best goalie in the world at the time of that contract.
Bobrovsky has a shitty one, but at least he had 3 great seasons in a row and 6 out of 7 good seasons before that deal. And he was also the best goalie to hit the UFA market in a very long time.
Holtby has a pretty fair cap hit (post-covid though) but too much term for a guy that’s been less than mediocre for 3 years now. That’s a Jim Benning special.
Special shout out to Matt Murray. That’s a terrible cap hit for a guy that’s been weak for 2 of the last 3 years and that was post-covid. Is that what it took to get him to agree to go to Ottawa or something? Robin Lehner has been one of the best 2 or 3 goalies in the league over the last 2 years and even had mostly good seasons before that in Buffalo, and his cap hit is over a million less per year than Murray’s.
Martin Jones with 3 more years left after this and two sub-.900% seasons in a row. I always thought this was a bad contract from the day it was signed and Jones was still an average goalie.
Who has the worst contract in the league among goalies? Obviously, Price at $10.5 million for 5 more years after this one is a pretty bad one, but he’s still putting up at least decent seasons, outside of 17-18. He was pretty good in 18-19 and just okay last year. But Price was on another level at the time he got this contract. Definitely a good argument to be made that he was the best goalie in the world at the time of that contract.
Bobrovsky has a shitty one, but at least he had 3 great seasons in a row and 6 out of 7 good seasons before that deal. And he was also the best goalie to hit the UFA market in a very long time.
Holtby has a pretty fair cap hit (post-covid though) but too much term for a guy that’s been less than mediocre for 3 years now. That’s a Jim Benning special.
Special shout out to Matt Murray. That’s a terrible cap hit for a guy that’s been weak for 2 of the last 3 years and that was post-covid. Is that what it took to get him to agree to go to Ottawa or something? Robin Lehner has been one of the best 2 or 3 goalies in the league over the last 2 years and even had mostly good seasons before that in Buffalo, and his cap hit is over a million less per year than Murray’s.
Martin Jones with 3 more years left after this and two sub-.900% seasons in a row. I always thought this was a bad contract from the day it was signed and Jones was still an average goalie.
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42-13-4 with a .927 save percentage? Weird year to single out as showing poor goaltending quality.
Jeune Poulet
Registered User
- Oct 31, 2019
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He's establishing himself as a sieve this season.
We definitely are in a lull as it relates to goaltending talent. At least it seems that way.
Gone are the days of dominant and legendary starting goaltenders.
20-25 years ago, there was: Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour. Not to mention many 2nd tier greats.
Nowadays, you could almost throw 10-15 names into a hat at the start of a season and pick the Vezina winner that way. A lot of parity at the goaltending position.
Gone are the days of dominant and legendary starting goaltenders.
20-25 years ago, there was: Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, and Belfour. Not to mention many 2nd tier greats.
Nowadays, you could almost throw 10-15 names into a hat at the start of a season and pick the Vezina winner that way. A lot of parity at the goaltending position.
Evincar
I have found the way
- Aug 10, 2012
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Which is one of the reasons I argued against drafting Askarov with an early 1st round pick a few months ago in the draft.
Goaltending now is much less important than team defense. Which is why you don't see the individual heroics displayed by past goaltenders.
It also has become the norm to use a goaltending tandem, playing 50-30 game split. Or even a 45-35 game split. This reduces the impact any goaltender can have and makes the concept of "an elite goaltender" less meaningful.
That was a terrible non-save by Hellebuyck just now in the Ottawa game. He really whiffed on it. Scratch him off the list.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 27,521
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In some respects, i guess you could look at it as a "lull of talent". But i'd actually kinda look at it as almost the opposite.
We do still have some consistent, perennial "elite" goaltenders at the top. It's just that beyond those small handful of names...the way the game is played today, and the way goaltending has developed, there's a ton of volatility and fluctuation among the rest of the names beyond that. Guys rise and fall year to year, and it's a bit of a rollercoaster for some.
But it's really just a reflection of how many decent goaltenders we have these days. Combined with the realization for teams, that gone are the days of a starter playing 70 games a year. Gone are the days of the "veteran backup" who is better at sitting on the bench holding a clipboard doodling or charting faceoffs, than actually tending net. Teams realize that today...you need two quality goaltenders, the lesser of which can potentially give you at least 30 games if called upon. The "talent gap" between the multitude in the mushy middle has closed, such that being "fresh" and "rested" and "on a hot streak" tends to be a lot more of a differencemaker than any actual difference in skill/talent between all of these guys who are capable enough in the right situation.
It used to be that teams would stash their "young guy" in the minors to get as many games as possible, for as long as possible before making the jump. The idea of "overripening" guys. But the way it is today...that "backup" role is plenty juicy and boasts plenty of potential minutes to justify just moving that young goaltender up as soon as they look ready. If they can contribute...they're going to find themselves on the roster and playing games now. There may be inconsistencies that result from that, but on the whole...it still seems to be the more favourable approach, compared to just riding your "starter" into the dirt and losing a few games with your veteran backup who is basically a sacrificial lamb for back-to-backs, etc.
We do still have some consistent, perennial "elite" goaltenders at the top. It's just that beyond those small handful of names...the way the game is played today, and the way goaltending has developed, there's a ton of volatility and fluctuation among the rest of the names beyond that. Guys rise and fall year to year, and it's a bit of a rollercoaster for some.
But it's really just a reflection of how many decent goaltenders we have these days. Combined with the realization for teams, that gone are the days of a starter playing 70 games a year. Gone are the days of the "veteran backup" who is better at sitting on the bench holding a clipboard doodling or charting faceoffs, than actually tending net. Teams realize that today...you need two quality goaltenders, the lesser of which can potentially give you at least 30 games if called upon. The "talent gap" between the multitude in the mushy middle has closed, such that being "fresh" and "rested" and "on a hot streak" tends to be a lot more of a differencemaker than any actual difference in skill/talent between all of these guys who are capable enough in the right situation.
It used to be that teams would stash their "young guy" in the minors to get as many games as possible, for as long as possible before making the jump. The idea of "overripening" guys. But the way it is today...that "backup" role is plenty juicy and boasts plenty of potential minutes to justify just moving that young goaltender up as soon as they look ready. If they can contribute...they're going to find themselves on the roster and playing games now. There may be inconsistencies that result from that, but on the whole...it still seems to be the more favourable approach, compared to just riding your "starter" into the dirt and losing a few games with your veteran backup who is basically a sacrificial lamb for back-to-backs, etc.
Boulder Avalanche
Pull the Goalie
- Apr 9, 2013
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Goaltender talent has never been better. Between better designed equipment, most goalies having specific coaching for a decade plus, and less workload, the floor is near the ceiling of decades gone by.
Prendan Brust
Registered User
I think you partially got it right. In every pro sports there are these transitive periods where older talents fade away and new talents emerge. The changing of the guards. Right now, nothing’s settled but I’m confident new stars will rise sooner than later.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I think the pad size limits have to be wound back a handful of years in order to make an accurate comparison.
