Are we a slow team...

[swiftwin]

We watch our team regularly, we've seen the good and the bad. Yeah, we looked incredibly fast and physical to start the year. Seems like we started sprinting at the beginning of a marathon. Now all the other teams have picked up the pace and we have stopped moving our feet. We look like turtles now.

Consistency has been our issue. They use all their energy in one game and then suck. The team that beat Toronto 3-0 is nowhere to be seen. I'd rather them play at 75% of that level, 9 games out of 10 than play 2/10 at full speed and then 8/10 looking like shit.

There's no reason to believe"they use all their energy and have none left for subsequent games". That's a weird oversimplification. These are professional athletes. Plenty of teams can play at a high energy level.

 

[swiftwin]

Tim and Jake are the only bigger name guys that are almost as quick with the puck on their sticks as when they are skating freely. The best of the best aren't just fast, they play fast and for the most part the Ottawa Senators don't play fast.

Yep, that's because they're still not 100% comfortable with their new style of play. Sometimes it works when they have high confidence and the pressure is low. But when the pressure is on, or when their confidence is low, the slightest hesitation or overthinking will leave you in the dust at NHL speeds.

It's all mental right now for this team.

 

[LuckyPierre]

The single fastest burst so far this season was by Jacob Slavin, when he made an ill conceived pinch down behind the opposition net. The play rapidly went the other way and he ended up more or less skating the route players take in the fastest skater skills competition in order to get back and try to break up an offensive rush at his own net.

This is a defenseman with one goal on the season we’re talking about. So put into context, why are we blanket celebrating speed bursts if they may actually often be an indication of poor decision making paired with great athleticism?

 

[Golden_Jet]

The single fastest burst so far this season was by Jacob Slavin, when he made an ill conceived pinch down behind the opposition net. The play rapidly went the other way and he ended up more or less skating the route players take in the fastest skater skills competition in order to get back and try to break up an offensive rush at his own net.

This is a defenseman with one goal on the season we’re talking about. So put into context, why are we blanket celebrating speed bursts if they may actually often be an indication of poor decision making paired with great athleticism?

No, I guess your reading it wrong, or have never been to nhl edge. Slavin wasn’t listed as fastest burst, he recorded the top NHL speed. Bursts is a different category.

The stat to look at is the quantity of bursts for a player over the 18,20 and 22mph bursts.
Where that player ranks in the league (what percentile does he rank at)

No one cares if a guy has one quick top speed, nice to have, but the number of bursts at each mph is the one to look at.

 

[swiftwin]

I thought this one was interesting:


Zub is among the slowest in the league, slower than Hamonic.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I thought this one was interesting:


Zub is among the slowest in the league, slower than Hamonic.

Yes was discussed yesterday. There is a whole thread discussing it, in the mains.

Has 3 other charts as well.
In case you missed it, here is the thread.

Fastest and slowest NHL forwards and defensemen

forums.hfboards.com

 

[swiftwin]

Yes was discussed yesterday. There is a whole thread discussing it, in the mains.

Has 3 other charts as well.
In case you missed it, here is the thread.

Fastest and slowest NHL forwards and defensemen

forums.hfboards.com

I know, that's where I got it from. I'm just surprised Zub is so low.

 

[LuckyPierre]

No, I guess your reading it wrong, or have never been to nhl edge. Slavin wasn’t listed as fastest burst, he recorded the top NHL speed. Bursts is a different category.

The stat to look at is the quantity of bursts for a player over the 18,20 and 22mph bursts.
Where that player ranks in the league (what percentile does he rank at)

No one cares if a guy has one quick top speed, nice to have, but the number of bursts at each mph is the one to look at.

Technically it was the fastest speed burst from Slavin, but terminology aside, I'll play ball - Chinakov, Wood, and Anderson in the top 10 for number of 22+ mph bursts again illustrates my point that this metric in a vacuum is absolutely not a lead indicator for success. We are talking about very pedestrian players on the leaderboard here.

This stat has to be combined with context - can they skate this fast with the puck on their stick? Are they busting their asses and displaying athleticism to drive play to the opposition net, to get in on a strong forecheck, or because they made a dumb mistake and if they don't get back, coach will bench them?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Technically it was the fastest speed burst from Slavin, but terminology aside, I'll play ball - Chinakov, Wood, and Anderson in the top 10 for number of 22+ mph bursts again illustrates my point that this metric in a vacuum is absolutely not a lead indicator for success. We are talking about very pedestrian players on the leaderboard here.

This stat has to be combined with context - can they skate this fast with the puck on their stick? Are they busting their asses and displaying athleticism to drive play to the opposition net, to get in on a strong forecheck, or because they made a dumb mistake and if they don't get back, coach will bench them?

No technically it was the fastest speed he clocked at this this year, taken from web page (listed as top skating speed)
The stat is exactly as listed on their web page. Nothing more. If you read it for what it isn’t , that’s on you. There is a shit load of information to choose from, in all situations, and where they rank.

there is no chip in the puck, so the stats have no idea if player has puck on stick or not.
The average time a player has stick on puck is about 5% of his TOI. Best players are 1-2 minutes a game.

It’s give a ranking in the league what percentile a player falls into vs his peers.
choose mph or km/hr
Also gives league average at that position to compare with.

Top speed ranking
18 mph bursts ranking
29 mph burst rankings
22 mph burst rankings
Skating distance ranking
Shot speed ranking
Shots on goal ranking
Shooting percent ranking
Offensive zone. Defensive zone, neutral zone ranking.

You can pick and rank all the above using all strengths,PK, PP, even strengths.

Shot speed is shown via different speed categories (like different burst speeds are listed)
Also shown via shot locations as rankings.

That’s a good summary of what they have, Minus a few

 

[LiseL]

Norris has great hockey sense imo. He’s essentially always in the right position. If he could stop fumbling pucks he could do great things.

I don’t think our team lacks hockey sense as a whole tbh. They just seem to have mental lapses, I don’t think it’s an issue with how they think the game. Jacques would call it game management.

Or "deer in the headlights" syndrome. They just seem to forget how to play NHL hockey whenever they are in their D zone, have to do a line change or playing their man instead of puckwatching.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Or "deer in the headlights" syndrome. They just seem to forget how to play NHL hockey whenever they are in their D zone, have to do a line change or playing their man instead of puckwatching.

Ya the line changes during the second period is bad, I realize it’s harder in that period, but maybe change sooner than other periods if available to do so.

 

[Norris4Norris]

How many players from Ottawa are playing in the 4 nations faceoff?

Brady Tkachuk. But if he was Canadian he would have had no chance to make that team. He is big and physical and scores a lot. But he is a liability defensively and the fact that the US took him shows me they are weaker than some media makes them out to be.

Ullmark. Historically great player, bad this year.

Who else?

We don't have a great team. Speed does not equate to winning hockey.

 

[DackellDuck]

How many players from Ottawa are playing in the 4 nations faceoff?

Brady Tkachuk. But if he was Canadian he would have had no chance to make that team. He is big and physical and scores a lot. But he is a liability defensively and the fact that the US took him shows me they are weaker than some media makes them out to be.

Ullmark. Historically great player, bad this year.

Who else?

We don't have a great team. Speed does not equate to winning hockey.

Tkachuk makes Team Canada 10 times out of 10. I mean Brandon Hagel is on the team. Good player, but let’s be real. Same with Travis Konecny and Sam Bennett. Armstrong and Cooper would have been salivating to name him, especially considering the traits they seemingly valued (see the names above + Sanheim, Parayko).

 

[Golden_Jet]

Brady Tkachuk. But if he was Canadian he would have had no chance to make that team. He is big and physical and scores a lot. But he is a liability defensively and the fact that the US took him shows me they are weaker than some media makes them out to be.

Or the other possibility is

Guérin, Zito, Fitzgerald and Drury etc. are smarter at hockey than you.

He likely makes Canada as well.

 

[Cosmix]

Or "deer in the headlights" syndrome. They just seem to forget how to play NHL hockey whenever they are in their D zone, have to do a line change or playing their man instead of puckwatching.

I call it "density". How dense are they when doing their job? It seems they either don't know what they are supposed to do or just don't care to do it. Either way, the coaching staff should be doing some "teaching" and "ass-kicking" to cure their "density"! What is taking the coaches so long to get it done?

 

[Norris4Norris]

Tkachuk makes Team Canada 10 times out of 10. I mean Brandon Hagel is on the team. Good player, but let’s be real. Same with Travis Konecny and Sam Bennett. Armstrong and Cooper would have been salivating to name him, especially considering the traits they seemingly valued (see the names above + Sanheim, Parayko).

Ok, you might be correct.

Outside of Brady and Stutzle players have been average. If only we had re-signed Stone and taken Konecny over Colin White we might be somewhere. And not traded Gustavson.

 

[R2010]

Ok, you might be correct.

Outside of Brady and Stutzle players have been average. If only we had re-signed Stone and taken Konecny over Colin White we might be somewhere. And not traded Gustavson.

How about if we just picked up Joey Daccord when he was on waivers a couple years ago...

 

[Silky Johnson]

Does it matter?

I am almost positive that at season's end, the league looks at the total points a team has and the top 3 in any one division get in and the next 2 best teams in the conference join them in the playoffs.

Expected goals for, shot percentage from the slot, burst speed above 20 MPH, size of their dicks, and so on, DON'T seem to matter. The size of their dicks, seems to have hurt us the most. With The Euge, Dorion, et all being the biggest pricks, we would have been a sure fire playoff team.

Ws and Ls and OTLs!!!! and M.I.C.K.E.Y M.O.U.S.E does not enter. Even as Percentage!

Keep up the hype, distraction and spin. And season 8 is already bye-bye. Here is to the 2025/2026 season.

As long as the Kids are alright, though, I am okay.

Do you ever post sober?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Do you ever post sober?

Good question, at least it was somewhat about hockey for a change,

 

[Silky Johnson]

Good question, at least it was somewhat about hockey for a change,

Are you sure? I have no f***ing idea what it was about...

 

[Golden_Jet]

I get where your word salad of nothingness is coming from from now:

lol so you proved to us all , you have no idea on hockey then, if you can’t follow along.

 

[LiseL]

How many players from Ottawa are playing in the 4 nations faceoff?

Brady Tkachuk. But if he was Canadian he would have had no chance to make that team. He is big and physical and scores a lot. But he is a liability defensively and the fact that the US took him shows me they are weaker than some media makes them out to be.

Ullmark. Historically great player, bad this year.

Who else?

We don't have a great team. Speed does not equate to winning hockey.

Well Ullmark has really improved the last few games so who knows? He may be the starter for Sweden in Feb. I think the U.S. goaltending will make up for any shortcomings that team may have.

 

[Beech]

Do you ever post sober?

no..but at least, I have an excuse

What is your?

Good question, at least it was somewhat about hockey for a change,

Jet,

the fact that you have limited mental capacities, should not mean that you attack things you don't understand.

As a minimum, sit quietly.

 

[Tuna99]

no..but at least, I have an excuse

What is your?


Jet,

the fact that you have limited mental capacities, should not mean that you attack things you don't understand.

As a minimum, sit quietly.

Ouch, c’mon guys, are we the Sensarmy or the Sensnaggers?

All are welcome - the drunk, stoned, stupid and those with limited mental capacity.

 

[darude]

So, There's a thread on the mains about fastest players according to NHL Edge stats, lots of people complain about how slow we are. How does that line up with the stats though?

6th in Max speed (all skaters)
5th in Max speed (Forwards)
8th in 22 Mph bursts (all skaters)
2nd in 22 Mph bursts (Defense)
7th in 20 Mph bursts (all skaters)
9th in 20 Mph bursts (Forwards)
8th in 20 Mph bursts (forwards)

Norris has the 6th highest max speed among forwards and 7th overall,

Sanderson has the 7th most 22 Mph bursts among Defense

Stutzle has the 2nd most 20mph bursts overall and among forwards.
Sanderson has the most 20mph bursts overall and among Defense.

I got to admit, I did not expect these results, we don't "feel" fast most nights.

Now do the #s for Hamonic. Eye test he's not fast and is playing on our top pairing with Sanderson. What does that pair average out too in bursts?