Toggle sidebar

Are two Czechs better than any Soviet player ever?

Troubadour said:
That's cool af to be honest.
Click to expand...

Korn had a huge impact on how I coach(ed) goalies - a lot of what Hasek did worked at that level because of his extraordinary athletic ability, but he could be coached and the foundations of his game were soundly based in geometry.

I was able to coach goalies how to understand vertical angles - and specifically that (1) the space between the puck and the four corners of the net is usually significantly different from (2) the space between a shooter's eyes and the four corners of the net - to really good success (certainly no NHL goalies, but some solid college goalies and a few minor pro journeymen).

I can't tell you how many times I'm in the handshake line and a shooter will tell me how much open net I was showing and how lucky I got that he shot wide or I saved it. I just shrug. "Yep - guess I got lucky."

Hasek had the tools, but I firmly believe that Mitch Korn unified everything into a single technique for him (and one of Mitch's rules is that you should work with what the goalie has, and not - for instance - try to turn everyone into a "butterfly goalie").
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr John Carlson, rmartin65, Michael Farkas and 2 others
Troubadour said:
That's cool af to be honest.


That would be reasonable of course. But if you read into it, it becomes clear that while Hasek was inspired by Tretiak the goalie, he was unimpressed with Tretiak the coach, and Tretiak probably wasn't convinced Hasek's approach would work, either, so it was a non-working relationship.



He actually kinda was. Not very consistent, and perhaps not quite NHL-ready yet, but he was a bit of an international star.
Click to expand...

Yes , correct me if I'm wrong - Hasek was named the best goalie at the 1987 world championship.
 
Bear of Bad News said:
Korn had a huge impact on how I coach(ed) goalies - a lot of what Hasek did worked at that level because of his extraordinary athletic ability, but he could be coached and the foundations of his game were soundly based in geometry.

I was able to coach goalies how to understand vertical angles - and specifically that (1) the space between the puck and the four corners of the net is usually significantly different from (2) the space between a shooter's eyes and the four corners of the net - to really good success (certainly no NHL goalies, but some solid college goalies and a few minor pro journeymen).

I can't tell you how many times I'm in the handshake line and a shooter will tell me how much open net I was showing and how lucky I got that he shot wide or I saved it. I just shrug. "Yep - guess I got lucky."

Hasek had the tools, but I firmly believe that Mitch Korn unified everything into a single technique for him (and one of Mitch's rules is that you should work with what the goalie has, and not - for instance - try to turn everyone into a "butterfly goalie").
Click to expand...

It's ofc interesting and I believe I have already heard some coaches in different sports (tennis, soccer) point out that often the players themselves are the worst judge of why they failed or this and that did not go in.

Korn also suggests in this (very good) piece that Hasek rushed to make saves before shots actually happened because he guessed and predicted the game too well, which gave shooters the time to change plans on a dime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bear of Bad News
Gerulaitis said:
And let's be honest Hasek wasn't really a superstar goalie when he came to the NHL from Czechoslovakia. Remember the hockey worlds in 1990 where Arturs Irbe outplayed him?
Click to expand...

the hell he wasnt.

5 Czech league Vezinas
2x voted best Czech hockey player
Voted best goalie in the 83 WJC
3x WC all star
2x WC best goalie
and 3 WJC silvers, 1 silver/3 bronze finishes in the WC
 
  • Like
Reactions: Overrated, gary69 and Bear of Bad News
Yeah, I don't really understand the "he wasn't a star because Irbe outplayed him in 1990".

Even if we grant the example, you may as well say that Hasek wasn't an NHL star because Kolzig played better in 1998.
 
Bear of Bad News said:
Yeah, I don't really understand the "he wasn't a star because Irbe outplayed him in 1990".

Even if we grant the example, you may as well say that Hasek wasn't an NHL star because Kolzig played better in 1998.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the particular 1990 WC.
Irbe was a young goalie who shut out the Czechoslovaks with Jagr, Reichel, Holik etc. The Soviets scored 5 on Hasek.
 
Gerulaitis said:
I was referring to the particular 1990 WC.
Irbe was a young goalie who shut out the Czechoslovaks with Jagr, Reichel, Holik etc. The Soviets scored 5 on Hasek.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm aware.

As I said, even if you grant the example, it's not a useful one because you can use the same logic to prove that Hasek wasn't an NHL star.
 
Troubadour said:
I have read Hasek's autobiography where he basically said Tretiak taught him nothing, meanwhile he always praised Korn.

Then there are articles like this one:

www.cbsnews.com

Sabres' Hasek Ready For Battle

Has Won Four Vezina Trophies (Best Goalie)
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

...where you can find paragraphs like this one:

Belfour led Chicago to the Stanley Cup Finals against Pittsburgh in 1992 with Hasek mostly looking on from the bench. Legendary Soviet goaltender Vladislav Tretiak blew into Chicago once or twice a year to work with the goalies but "he never really worked with me," Hasek said.

Once or twice a year.

He never really worked with me.

If I ever come across that Hasek's book, I may dig up that brief paragraph he dedicated to Tretiak.
Click to expand...

Korn?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Troubadour
  • Like
Reactions: Bear of Bad News
authentic said:
Korn?
Click to expand...
The coach who taught Hasek to Follow The Leader, and not try to make saves Blind, and to use his unusual technique to his advantage instead of simply making him a Freak On A Leash. The exact details of this are Falling Away From Me, but I'm pretty sure he made a cameo in the background of an ADIDAS commercial Hasek starred in. Either way, he's Got The Life experience to tell you just about anything about goaltending.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: BigBadBruins7708, authentic, Troubadour and 4 others
Johnny Engine said:
The coach who taught Hasek to Follow The Leader, and not try to make saves Blind, and to use his unusual technique to his advantage instead of simply making him a Freak On A Leash. The exact details of this are Falling Away From Me, but I'm pretty sure he made a cameo in the background of an ADIDAS commercial Hasek starred in. Either way, he's Got The Life experience to tell you just about anything about goaltending.
Click to expand...

Well done, Clown. 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigBadBruins7708
Did Hasek really need much coaching by the time he had come over to Chicago? He had been a starter in the Czechoslovakian league since 1982-83, and in the national team - since 1984. Even though they're of the same age, Ed Belfour was still playing junior hockey when Hasek was his team's goalie in the Canada Cup.
 
authentic said:
I also think how well players age nearing and beyond 40 is usually a good indication of who was better at their best. Players like Howe and Jagr IMO are quite likely a little more talented than Crosby and Ovechkin, who have aged as well as anyone but those two really.

From 2007-10 Ovechkin was on the same level I think even if not quite as good, but even if he was it doesn’t hold up to Jagr’s prolonged prime and consistent domination in the regular season and playoffs over a 7-10 year period.

I will admit there was a time where I ranked Ovechkin ahead for peak when it was more fresh in my memory, but in retrospect going through stats (especially playoffs) it has become clear to me that Jagr was better. The same goes for Crosby although I think there is more of a case to rank Crosby slightly ahead in career, and very close in prime (perhaps without injuries he could’ve been on par or slightly ahead).
Click to expand...

Not sure I quite agree with this. Players like Delvecchio, larionov, Bucyck, Recchi in their late 30s, early 40s aged better than many star players who would otherwise be ahead in all time rankings.
 
pandro said:
Did Hasek really need much coaching by the time he had come over to Chicago? He had been a starter in the Czechoslovakian league since 1982-83, and in the national team - since 1984. Even though they're of the same age, Ed Belfour was still playing junior hockey when Hasek was his team's goalie in the Canada Cup.
Click to expand...

That'll forever be debatable, but the fact Korn never tried to change his style and instead tried to put the finishing touches on it to make it more dependable defo helped Hasek maintain the belief he was on a good way. He finally came across a guy who knew his thing and who wanted to work on what Dom had going. Must have been a huge help after all the doubt/ridicule/neglect he endured early. And Hasek, for all it's worth, does not come across as an overly grateful fella who gives away praise unless well deserved, unlike Gretzky. He's more on the prick side tbh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Felidae, jigglysquishy, authentic and 1 other person
Professor What said:
You say that as though it's a ridiculous opinion. It's not a ridiculous opinion to have, but it is ridiculous to just dismiss it.
Click to expand...
Don't put words into my mouth.
Never said it's ridiculous.
He's a penguins fan. Certainly, he'll say Crosby is better
 
Michael Farkas said:
This line of conversation was about Tretiak vs Hasek, was it not?

I don't even think Pens fans would suggest that Crosby was a better goalie than either of them...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be shocked if some diehard Pens might say that Crosby can be better than Hasek if he played goal
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom