Are Sweden becoming worse?

[Lambo]

we are also a top nation in floorball and bandy.

Sorry i ve no clue about this sports.

 

[member 305909]

Floorball is played by those who weren't good enough for hockey and as I said before bandy is a dying sport.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Floorball is played by those who weren't good enough for hockey and as I said before bandy is a dying sport.

Floorball players are way more technial skilled than hockey players in general.

Bandy have always been a small sport.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Brolin won this personal awards:

• UEFA Euro Golden Boot: 1992
• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1994
• Ballon d'Or fourth place: 1994

UEFA Euro Golden Boot : with three other players including 1 unknown during an 8 nations tournament.
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team : as Marcio Santos or Krasimir Balakov.
4th place at the 1994 Ballon d'Or follows his performance at the World Cup.

He made 2 excellent international tournaments in 92 and 94 but besides that, he did not do anything exceptional in his career. I actually underestimated him by saying that he was no better than Xavier Gravelaine, Lilian Laslandes and Alain Caveglia.

But it is far from the level of David Ginola, Eric Cantona, Jean-Pierre Papin if that's what you mean.

Let's say he has the level close to Sylvain Wiltord or Ludovic Giuly.

 

[karhukissa]

Floorball players are way more technial skilled than hockey players in general.

Bandy have always been a small sport.

When i grew up, many guys quit hockey and then went to play floorball and dominated there even though they were pretty bad at hockey.

 

[Eye of Ra]

UEFA Euro Golden Boot : with three other players including 1 unknown during an 8 nations tournament.
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team : as Marcio Santos or Krasimir Balakov.
4th place at the 1994 Ballon d'Or follows his performance at the World Cup.

He made 2 excellent international tournaments in 92 and 94 but besides that, he did not do anything exceptional in his career. I actually underestimated him by saying that he was no better than Xavier Gravelaine, Lilian Laslandes and Alain Caveglia.

But it is far from the level of David Ginola, Eric Cantona, Jean-Pierre Papin if that's what you mean.

Let's say he has the level close to Sylvain Wiltord or Ludovic Giuly.

he was very good in parma aswell. but yes, he was not a world class player.

 

[member 305909]

Floorball players are way more technial skilled than hockey players in general.

Bandy have always been a small sport.

Yet, if you are the best floorball-player in the world you still need a daytime-job.

 

[NoMessi]

Wonder whos leading the World Qualifier group. Is it Spain? No, ofc not - its Sweden who beat them 2-1 this week and top the group.

Shame we cant play football (soccer), yet we were the only team who beat France through the World Cup and Qualifiers last time around. Kicked out Switzerland, Italy, Germany and the netherlands in the process.

 

[Tomas W]

Last season wasnt great for Swedes. But it goes up and down, maybe better this season?

 

[Phil McKraken]

On the forward side it's just an ongoing generational shift. You have to go back to the mid 90s to find as many high quality Swedish forward prospects as we have right now with Raymond, Eklund, Holtz, Lysell, Rosen, Östlund and Stenberg. All are potential stars or first line players.

We also have the best Swedish goalie prospect ever in Wallstedt, as well as Filip Gustavsson who is looking very promising.

We keep producing d-men at a high level, most evident with Edvinsson looking like a future star. Not that I care because I'm kind of tired of hearing about Swedish d-men. I think the federation must have addressed this 5-6 years ago since there's been more forwards in the last few years. I hope more talented teens are encouraged to try playing forward.

 

[Eye of Ra]

yeah i wonder if that french guy still thinks sweden sucks when we are have guys like isak, kulusevski, forsberg and zlatan upfront.

and our d is better than ever with augstinsson to sevilla and gudmundsson to lille to add with lindelöf who is a united player.

i wonder what the argument is that norway is better than sweden. what has ajer, odeegaard and berge showed that make them so much better than isak, zlatan, lindelöf, forsberg and kulusevki?

Wonder whos leading the World Qualifier group. Is it Spain? No, ofc not - its Sweden who beat them 2-1 this week and top the group.

Shame we cant play football (soccer), yet we were the only team who beat France through the World Cup and Qualifiers last time around. Kicked out Switzerland, Italy, Germany and the netherlands in the process.

and...beat mexico, south korea, slovakia, poland in wc 2018/euro 2020 and that playoff game against ukraine could go either way.

we have made playoffs 2 times in row in big tournaments. and when we qualify for wc 2022 it means we have qualifed for 10 big tournaments and only missed 2 in the 2000s.

not saying we are a top team, but we sure as hell dont suck.

 

[sr edler]

But it is far from the level of David Ginola, Eric Cantona, Jean-Pierre Papin if that's what you mean.

Let's say he has the level close to Sylvain Wiltord or Ludovic Giuly.

David Ginola is greatly overrated and mostly famous for his shampoo commercials and occasional fancy goals for mid-tier English clubs such as Aston Villa and Tottenham.

I give you Cantona and Papin though, they were the real deals.

Brolin was great in the 1991–1994 window but then he broke his ankle in a qualifier with the Swedish national team, and he didn't have enough drive & cynicism to push himself back to the top. And he also wasn't the smartest cookie in the jar off the pitch and made a really dumb decision to sign with Leeds, which was a match made in hell both culturally and football wise. They treated him like shit there. He should have stayed in Italy or alternatively tried Spain (say Celta Vigo, Deportivo or Valencia) or Bundesliga.

He's really good friends off the pitch with table tennis player J–O Waldner, but you can't have a Waldner approach to professional sports if you're in a sport that acquires actual top level stamina, such as football. It's just doomed for failure.

 

[Eye of Ra]

David Ginola is greatly overrated and mostly famous for his shampoo commercials and occasional fancy goals for mid-tier English clubs such as Aston Villa and Tottenham.

I give you Cantona and Papin though, they were the real deals.

Brolin was great in the 1991–1994 window but then he broke his ankle in a qualifier with the Swedish national team, and he didn't have enough drive & cynicism to push himself back to the top. And he also wasn't the smartest cookie in the jar off the pitch and made a really dumb decision to sign with Leeds, which was a match made in hell both culturally and football wise. They treated him like shit there. He should have stayed in Italy or alternatively tried Spain (say Celta Vigo, Deportivo or Valencia) or Bundesliga.

He's really good friends off the pitch with table tennis player J–O Waldner, but you can't have a Waldner approach to professional sports if you're in a sport that acquires actual top level stamina, such as football. It's just doomed for failure.

pär zetterberg was another great player during that time, but our coaches hated him.

we could had a great team after wc 1994 with him and a healthy brolin.

Henrik Larsson
Zetterberg - Ljungberg - Brolin
Thern-Schwarz-Mild
Mjällby-P.Andersson-Björklund
Ravelli

(andreas andersson until Ljungberg came in)

 

[Hiukafen]

SWE-FIN DRAFTS 2012-2021

2012
SWE 23 (2 x 1st rnd+4 x 2nd rnd=6)
FIN 9 (2+1=3)

TOP5
385 SWE Filip Forsberg
304 FIN Teuvo Teräväinen
200 SWE Hampus Lindholm
131 SWE Erik Gustafsson
128 FIN Olli Määttä

2013
SWE 25 (3+6=9)
FIN 12 (2+1=3)

TOP5
465 FIN Aleksander Barkov
367 SWE Elias Lindholm
245 FIN Rasmus Ristolainen
234 SWE Andre Burakovsky
230 SWE Aleksander Wennberg

2014
SWE 28 (2+3=5)
FIN 9 (2+1=3)

TOP5
263 SWE William Nylander
239 SWE Viktor Arvidsson
137 SWE Adrian Kempe
120 FIN Kasperi Kapanen
78 SWE Victor Olofsson

2015
SWE 20 (3+4=7)
FIN 13 (1+3=4)

TOP5
320 FIN Sebastian Aho
316 FIN Mikko Rantanen
98 FIN Roope Hintz
96 SWE Joel Eriksson Ek
70 FIN Markus Nutivaara

2016
SWE 25 (1+4=5)
FIN 15 (4+2=6)

TOP5
271 FIN Patrik Laine
130 SWE Jesper Bratt
62 FIN Jesse Puljujärvi
32 SWE Alexander Nylander
25 FIN Janne Kuokkanen

2017
SWE 27 (4+4=8)
FIN 23 (6+6=12)

TOP5
153 SWE Elias Pettersson
95 FIN Miro Heiskanen
35 FIN Henri Jokiharju
25 SWE Emil Bemström
24 FIN Eeli Tolvanen

2018
SWE 30 (6+8=14)
FIN 16 (2+1=3)

TOP5
107 SWE Rasmus Dahlin
62 FIN Jesperi Kotkaniemi
29 SWE Adam Boqvist
15 SWE Isac Lundeström
12 SWE Rasmus Sandin

2019
SWE 26 (4+5=9)
FIN 22 (3+1=4)

TOP5
40 FIN Kaapo Kakko
27 SWE Nils Höglander
6 SWE Tobias Björnfot
5 FIN Ville Heinola
2 SWE Victor Söderström

2020
SWE 32 (2+7=9)
FIN 17 (1+3)

2021
SWE 23 (6+1=7)
FIN 16 (0+6=6)

2012-2021
SWE 259 (33+46=79)
FIN 152 (23+25=48)

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

David Ginola is greatly overrated and mostly famous for his shampoo commercials and occasional fancy goals for mid-tier English clubs such as Aston Villa and Tottenham.

I give you Cantona and Papin though, they were the real deals.

Brolin was great in the 1991–1994 window but then he broke his ankle in a qualifier with the Swedish national team, and he didn't have enough drive & cynicism to push himself back to the top. And he also wasn't the smartest cookie in the jar off the pitch and made a really dumb decision to sign with Leeds, which was a match made in hell both culturally and football wise. They treated him like shit there. He should have stayed in Italy or alternatively tried Spain (say Celta Vigo, Deportivo or Valencia) or Bundesliga.

He's really good friends off the pitch with table tennis player J–O Waldner, but you can't have a Waldner approach to professional sports if you're in a sport that acquires actual top level stamina, such as football. It's just doomed for failure.

Ginola played until 1995 at PSG, European top 5. Best player in the championship in 1994, he was better than Rai and Weah. Yes Weah had the Ballon d'Or for scoring 1 goal per game in the Champions League but Ginola was better than him. He turned down Barca and Real in 1994 because he didn't think these clubs were better.

He left Paris because with Fernandez, understanding was impossible. He had to leave for Barcelona first but at the time, the club was not allowed to have more than 3 foreigners and the places did not become available. This is the reason why he left for Newcastle.

Two seasons at Newcastle, twice 2nd in the championship.

Tottenham yes it was mid-tier. But he was named best player of the championship in 1999.

He was a huge player about the level of Ribery.
Minimize Ginola to embellish Brolin. Wouh... Ginola was indefinitely superior to Brolin. Brolin has never been able to take Stoichkov or Hagi's place at Barca. Ginola does.
You have PSG's game against Real and Barça to see how much Ginola stood out.
Twice best player in a top 3 championship (French League was top 3 in 1994)

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

pär zetterberg was another great player during that time, but our coaches hated him.

we could had a great team after wc 1994 with him and a healthy brolin.

Henrik Larsson
Zetterberg - Ljungberg - Brolin
Thern-Schwarz-Mild
Mjällby-P.Andersson-Björklund
Ravelli

(andreas andersson until Ljungberg came in)

You are talking to me about a guy who played in the Belgian championship.

Stop the joke. Sweden had a good run at the World Cup 94 but it was not an elite nation. The proof, there was no precedent or continuation. It was just a one-shot.

All the players you mention, none would have started with France.

 

[Eye of Ra]

You are talking to me about a guy who played in the Belgian championship.

Stop the joke. Sweden had a good run at the World Cup 94 but it was not an elite nation. The proof, there was no precedent or continuation. It was just a one-shot.

All the players you mention, none would have started with France.

and? he coud play in better league. he was a good player.

ehm, we won bronze in 92 euro and bronze again in wc 1994..."one-shot".

again, why do you compare sweden to france? when did i say sweden is even close to french level? i said, we are NOT top nation but also we DONT suck.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You compared Sweden to Belgium and even Spain and England when you talk about a player who is now over 50 years old.

If Zetterberg had had the level to play at a big club, he would have done.

A very good player in Sweden is seen as an average player in France. Sweden is seen as an average nation in France.

 

[Eye of Ra]

You compared Sweden to Belgium and even Spain and England when you talk about a player who is now over 50 years old.

If Zetterberg had had the level to play at a big club, he would have done.

A very good player in Sweden is seen as an average player in France. Sweden is seen as an average nation in France.

sometimes a player chooses to stay in a lesser league even thought he is better, becuse he likes it there. during the time zetterberg was active that was more common than it is today.

yes, sweden is average in soccer. but when it comes to our league, its pure shit thought.

 

[AdvancedPressure]

They're in one of those weird spots kind of similar to the 2006 Canadian Olympic team. A lot of their old core guys from years past are either retired or aging and declining, and the younger guys aren't quite there yet. Still a good team, though.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

— Phone flipped out, sorry: delete —

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Floorball is played by those who weren't good enough for hockey and as I said before bandy is a dying sport.

I have absolutely no interest in or knowledge of the floorball league, but it’s generally way cheaper and more accessible to play than hockey: I’m sure it requires quite different skillsets than hockey does.

If I was to describe it, I’d say it’s a game invented in Sweden, similar to hockey but played on floor in indoor rinks with a light stick and a light plastic ball. It’s dominated by Sweden and Finland, but Switzerland and the Czech Republic are decent as well.

Bandy, it’s probably lost a lot of ground to hockey over the years, but still has a few local strongholds across Northern Europe. The history of bandy is intrinsically tied to the history of hockey in Europe. Basically, it’s the winter team sport that was widely played before hockey was introduced in Northern Europe: it’s similar to hockey as far as the skating and the stickwork, but the ice surface and rules are more similar to football/soccer.

The IOC discussed introducing either hockey or bandy as a winter game for the 1920 Antwerp Olympics, with hockey ultimately getting the nod. Sweden at the time had only a few players with any experience playing hockey, so their earliest national teams featured players who had decidedly more experience playing bandy. The transition didn’t seem to difficult, however, as the national team managed to become European champions for the first time already in the year following their debut.

 

[Tomas W]

Floorball is played by those who weren't good enough for hockey and as I said before bandy is a dying sport.

Biggest difference is thats much much cheaper and easier to have kids that play a game like floorball. I mean hockey practies at 15:00 or at 22:00. Not easy for parents to support thier kids with transports etc. Not to mention the cost of equipment. I am amazed that there are so many that actually have thier kids playing hockey.

 

[Tomas W]

I guess that the high salaries for pro hockey players is what drives many families to accept the time and money consuming reality of beeing a hockey player. But that also mean that there will be a lot of early drop outs and a thin base of "average" talents. For a pyramid, a thin base equals a lower top.

 

[Svedu]

SWE-FIN DRAFTS 2012-2021

2012
SWE 23 (2 x 1st rnd+4 x 2nd rnd=6)
FIN 9 (2+1=3)

TOP5
385 SWE Filip Forsberg
304 FIN Teuvo Teräväinen
200 SWE Hampus Lindholm
131 SWE Erik Gustafsson
128 FIN Olli Määttä

2013
SWE 25 (3+6=9)
FIN 12 (2+1=3)

TOP5
465 FIN Aleksander Barkov
367 SWE Elias Lindholm
245 FIN Rasmus Ristolainen
234 SWE Andre Burakovsky
230 SWE Aleksander Wennberg

2014
SWE 28 (2+3=5)
FIN 9 (2+1=3)

TOP5
263 SWE William Nylander
239 SWE Viktor Arvidsson
137 SWE Adrian Kempe
120 FIN Kasperi Kapanen
78 SWE Victor Olofsson

2015
SWE 20 (3+4=7)
FIN 13 (1+3=4)

TOP5
320 FIN Sebastian Aho
316 FIN Mikko Rantanen
98 FIN Roope Hintz
96 SWE Joel Eriksson Ek
70 FIN Markus Nutivaara

2016
SWE 25 (1+4=5)
FIN 15 (4+2=6)

TOP5
271 FIN Patrik Laine
130 SWE Jesper Bratt
62 FIN Jesse Puljujärvi
32 SWE Alexander Nylander
25 FIN Janne Kuokkanen

2017
SWE 27 (4+4=8)
FIN 23 (6+6=12)

TOP5
153 SWE Elias Pettersson
95 FIN Miro Heiskanen
35 FIN Henri Jokiharju
25 SWE Emil Bemström
24 FIN Eeli Tolvanen

2018
SWE 30 (6+8=14)
FIN 16 (2+1=3)

TOP5
107 SWE Rasmus Dahlin
62 FIN Jesperi Kotkaniemi
29 SWE Adam Boqvist
15 SWE Isac Lundeström
12 SWE Rasmus Sandin

2019
SWE 26 (4+5=9)
FIN 22 (3+1=4)

TOP5
40 FIN Kaapo Kakko
27 SWE Nils Höglander
6 SWE Tobias Björnfot
5 FIN Ville Heinola
2 SWE Victor Söderström

2020
SWE 32 (2+7=9)
FIN 17 (1+3)

2021
SWE 23 (6+1=7)
FIN 16 (0+6=6)

2012-2021
SWE 259 (33+46=79)
FIN 152 (23+25=48)

I would choose Teräväinen before Forsberg even if both are really good, comes down to personal preference. I just love Teräväinens IQ and finesse. He's won the Stanley Cup and the WJC´s against Sweden and Forsberg where he was outstanding. Teuvo is a winner.

Barkov is the clear number one from the following draft.

Well, Nylander goes before Kapanen in an ordinary season and perhaps even Arvidsson but in the playoffs? I would actually choose Kapanen as a great third liner, more niched. I just don't find Nylander as one of the better top wings in the NHL. Very good indeed, but not great.

2015. Well, let's just say that it isn't even comparable. Aho and Rantanen are great first liners and Hintz is probably one of the better second line players out there.

2016. I would choose all finns before Alexander Nylander for now.

2017. Heiskanen clear number one for me at least. E.P. clear second. Tolvanen and Jokiharju before Bemström without hesitating.

2018. Close one here, but for now? I would actually choose Kotkaniemi before Dahlin but this could change this upcoming season.

2019. Heinola clear number one for me and yes, I would still pick Kakko before Höglander even if Nisse is a hard working talent. Kakko just has bigger potential as for now. Heinola has shown huge potential.

2020. Raymond has great potential but... Lundell is clearly the biggest talent of them all, for me that is. But Sweden has much more depth of course, that is if you stare yourself blind at the first and second round. Because the third round has Niemelä, Viro etc. Controversial perhaps, I would choose Topi Niemelä before Holtz and I would do that without hesitating. For now that is. Note that Holz is a seventh pick and Niemelä a 64´th pick.

2021. Sweden had clearly a lot more talents here. Nothing to debate. Even if Aatu Räty could become a huge steal after this season.

2022. Well Salomonsson is good and you have a lot more there as usual. Lekkerimäki will become a big riser for Sweden this year. But I would wanna state that for now, it seems that both Slovakia and Finland have those higher picks with clearer elite´ish talent. Especially Kemell seems to become a huge riser this year, rightfully so. Lambert should still become a great player even if he's struggled.

All in all? Sweden are still very good at producing talents and lots of them. Nothing new there. Perhaps it makes you "Eyes of Ra" wonder and question your level just because Finland rised so much this last decade. Especially when it comes to elite talent. Even if Finland doesn't have plenty of them, they seem to produce enough and when they are good? They are really good.
Last but not least, regarding goalies? Yes, Sweden do have a good talent in Wallstedt and probably a lot of others. If we look outside the draft? I think Finland seem to have more of them, as usual.
Some of them, both drafted and undrafted: Salminen, Blomqvist, Luukkonen, Lindberg, Lehtinen, Meriläinen, Leinonen, Annunen (weak last season in a weak Kärpät), Vinni, Vali etc.