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Are Sweden becoming worse?

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Eye of Ra

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
19,359
5,536
Malmö, Sweden
u24 swedes in nhl right now:

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thats not exactly impressing, is it? I dont see how Sweden have more impressing u24 players than Germany, Switzerland, Czech and Slovakia. Canada/Finland/Russia/USA is miles ahead.

Is Sweden on the way to become a nation that is not even top8 in the hockeyworld? I think so.
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Still clearly ahead of Finland and Russia for sure. Overall, there is no debate. 3rd or second best.
 
Looking at U24 makes things look worse since the 97 group (oldest players included here) is the worst age group in a long time for Sweden. Make this list last year and it would look better, next year too.
 
Almost all of those D are better than the entire Czech lineup. I'd kill for a Dahlin, Sandin, Boqvist and Broberg.

Forwards are quite good too as Nylander and Petterson looks like they'll tear the league apart this year.

So, no, I think Sweden looks great!
 
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Czechboy said:
Almost all of those D are better than the entire Czech lineup. I'd kill for a Dahlin, Sandin, Boqvist and Broberg.

Forwards are quite good too as Nylander and Petterson looks like they'll tear the league apart this year.

So, no, I think Sweden looks great!
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thats alexander nylander not william
 
Eye of Ra said:
thats alexander nylander not william
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Gotcha... Willy is 24 so about 8 months too old for this list. I'd say Sweden is still doing amazing. Dahlin is a generational D. Pettersen is in a lot of Top 10 lists.
 
Czechboy said:
Almost all of those D are better than the entire Czech lineup. I'd kill for a Dahlin, Sandin, Boqvist and Broberg.

Forwards are quite good too as Nylander and Petterson looks like they'll tear the league apart this year.

So, no, I think Sweden looks great!
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He's talking about overall depth and quantity not just the quality of the names there. I do think though that Finland wouldn't be much better if at all. The other top countries simply have a much larger pool of players so Sweden is doing just fine for it's size.
 
Eye of Ra said:
u24 swedes in nhl right now:

Screenshot-42.png



Screenshot-43.png


thats not exactly impressing, is it? I dont see how Sweden have more impressing u24 players than Germany, Switzerland, Czech and Slovakia. Canada/Finland/Russia/USA is miles ahead.

Is Sweden on the way to become a nation that is not even top8 in the hockeyworld? I think so.
Click to expand...
They just had 2 players drafted top 10, and likely have 2 or 3 guys go top 10 this year. They are doing fine for a country of their size. Canada, USA and Russia all have a much larger pool of players. Sweden's population is about the same as Southern Ontario (which is a hot bed for hockey players), and if you looked at the u-23 (which removes McDavid and Marner), their best player is Robert Thomas or Nick Suzuki (and making it under 23 doesn't remove Sweden's two best players on this list).
 
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wings5 said:
It's still nothing crazy and not that much better

View attachment 384071
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Let's say we're about tied with Sweden there, it's still more impressive for us since Sweden has about twice the population compared to Finland. They should always be a step above us in player production like they have been in the past.

That said, Sweden is fine. As long as they're producing players like Pettersson and Dahlin i don't see how there's much to worry about.
 
Up and coming Swedes including Eliass Pettersson and Rasmus Dhalin though..... but so far, I think not as strong as the States, but maybe stronger then Russia.
 
Goldeneye said:
Let's say we're about tied with Sweden there, it's still more impressive for us since Sweden has about twice the population compared to Finland. They should always be a step above us in player production like they have been in the past.

That said, Sweden is fine. As long as they're producing players like Pettersson and Dahlin i don't see how there's much to worry about.
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but on the other hand, hockey is nr 1 finland, its not in sweden. and finland have more active hockey players.
 
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wings5 said:
It's still nothing crazy and not that much better

View attachment 384071
Click to expand...
Should also be noted, that Sweden's prospect pool for the 2020 and 2021 draft looks better at the very top. 2 Swedes went before the first Finn picked in the most recent draft, and I'd expect a couple of Swedes to go before a Finn this year barring Raty completely turning it around. Finland has had the first player taken from the Nordic countries in all drafts between 2013 and 2019 outside of 2014 (W. Nylander taken before J. Honka) and 2018 (Dahlin taken before Kotkaniemi). When looking at NHLers 23 and under, ones who have emerged as game breakers are typically drafted very high if they are making an impact at 18, 19, and 20 (Aho being a notable exception). Guys like Raymond and Holtz emerging in the next 2 years could dramatically change the outlook. Not that Finns don't have other prospects who could emerge as better such as Lundell or Heinola winding the divide.

Also, Sweden's strength over the past 15 years of draft picks has been producing defenders (Hedman, OEL, Adam Larsson, Dahlin), who tend to emerge later than forwards (they obviously also had some high-end forward prospects like Backstrom, Landeskog, Nylander, and Pettersson), whereas Finland's high-end prospects outside of Heiskanen over the past 15 years have primarily been forwards (Laine, Puljujarvi, Barkov, Kakko, Rantanen, Granlund).
 
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Eye of Ra said:
u24 swedes in nhl right now:

Screenshot-42.png



Screenshot-43.png


thats not exactly impressing, is it? I dont see how Sweden have more impressing u24 players than Germany, Switzerland, Czech and Slovakia. Canada/Finland/Russia/USA is miles ahead.

Is Sweden on the way to become a nation that is not even top8 in the hockeyworld? I think so.
Click to expand...

Sure bud, Slovakia and Germany ahve much better u24 players in the NHL. Namely: that guy and also then this guy and someone else aswell!
 
Well no. Sweden is allways maintaining a high level of players. Almost every nhl-team has a swede on their playing roster. At the end of every nhl season, theres at least one new swedish stanley cup champion. Same can´t be said for example about Finland....

Swedish club teams win CHL almost every time its played, their league is the second strongest in whole Europe. National teams get gold medals at regular basis. If I were a swede, I wouldn´t be nervous at all. Sweden is doing well.
 
Goldeneye said:
Let's say we're about tied with Sweden there, it's still more impressive for us since Sweden has about twice the population compared to Finland. They should always be a step above us in player production like they have been in the past.

That said, Sweden is fine. As long as they're producing players like Pettersson and Dahlin i don't see how there's much to worry about.
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What does population has to do with it? It's the number of players that matters. With the "population" narrative, China would be #1.
 
swedehollow said:
What does population has to do with it? It's the number of players that matters. With the "population" narrative, China would be #1.
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I mean that's a pretty dumb comment. Obviously in countries where people don't give a shit about hockey it doesn't matter but when we're talking about countries where the sport is popular and has the history behind it and stars playing in the NHL, kids will be interested in trying it out. And when that's the case, the more people there is better the chance to find kids who have special talent.

Just because we've had a bit more guys slapping the puck around in beer leagues who as teenagers played a season in lowest tier league and register as a 'hockey player' it doesn't mean that there was anything special about them. Yeah it's the most popular sport here but let's not act like the majority of people take it seriously enough to pursue a career.

At the end of the day it's a numbers game. Your chances of finding a Pettersson are better out of 10M people than 5M people as long as there's solid exposure, interest in the sport and coaches who know talent when they see it. There's a reason why Sweden has always found more high-end talent and NHL-caliber players overall than us in the past. Development programs are a factor but say what you want about our programs of the past, the special kids always received special treatment and got all the help they needed to succeed.

Look at the last draft. Swedish players drafted 32, Finnish players 17. So care to explain how that's the case if having more registered players is the only factor?
 
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Sweden has an excellent development system. If there is a lack of swedish players in a certain age group, their peers will soon catch up. There are usually a fair amount of late bloomers. Swedish teams really work on development through all ages.

Finnish players choose sport much later. Many are dual athletes later into the teens. Whilst swedes usually have made their choice by 13, there are finnish players who play dual sports until 15 or maybe 16 at a high level. Lots of the registered players among finnish registered junior players turn into football players or floorball players..
 
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I wouldn't worry about it, Swedish stars often breakout later than average, not sure why. Forsberg and Pettersson hit the ground running, but Sundin, Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Sedins, Zetterberg, Naslund, Lundqvist etc. all had their best years in their late 20's/early 30's. Very rarely do they have their best years in the 22-25 range like the average NHL player does.
 
Absolutely not.

Elias Pettersson and Rasmus Dahlin are elite players.

Soderstrom, Broberg, Holtz and Raymond are very big prospects.

This year, Sweden have some really big draft players (Wallstedt, Edvinsson, Eklund) and could have 7 players in the first round (Lysell, Olaufsson, Olsson and Rosen).
 
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