Are GOALS worth more than ASSISTS?

[grieves]

I found this post by a very beautiful and smart poster. Helped me get some insight into this subject.

I think that goals being worth two points would overvalue goals slightly, but the current system overvalues assists HUGELY, second assists most of all.

Even just the fact that you can get 2 assists per one goal should already tell you that on average goals are more valuable.


It wasn't long ago that these were broken down. I especially urge you to read user Se829ne's reasoning and mathematical break-down in the thread below.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/be-it-resolved-that-point-totals-goal-totals.2453077/page-5

On average goals are definitely worth more than assists, no question. Of course there are exceptions, but even the most awesome assist needs someone to execute the goal whereas 5% of all goals are unassisted.


Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve
Goals, Assists, And Equality
https://www.tsn.ca/goals-should-be-worth-two-points-1.887265
What is the objective value of an assist?


From the last link:
"So to answer the question, what is the value of an assist we arrive at 54% for first assists and 19% for second assists [in relation to goals]"

So roughly speaking, 1 goal = 2 primary assists = 5 secondary assists, in value.

 

[93LEAFS]

Goals.

If we seriously want to look at this, we'd have to break down every pass-attempt, conversion rates of these passes, primary and secondary shot assists, secondary assists, primary assists, and compare them to shot attempts, shots on net, and goals. Where the shots come in, are going to happen less frequently, so you will probably have to figure out how dominant a certain player would be by examining how they are driving play with these micro-stats, which would overall be more reflective.

Goals will always be more valuable. Because it is the rarest event. That doesn't make it the only point of analysis, or indicate assists aren't important. How to value each micro-event, is important to understand the big picture.

On the micro level, goals will beat out any other event in value in determining the outcome of the game. More passes don't lead to a goal, than shots don't. A shot. is again a rarer outcome than a completed pass. I'm not 100% on this, but I also think a successful pass has a higher chance of happening, than a shot getting through on net. Again, making getting the shot through the hardest part.

Now, if you want to use similar logic to judge point totals, you would have to look at how these people are doing it and how they are beating averages on micro-stats. For example, is a player who gets a lot of assists like Barzal for example using his speed and zone-entry ability to create significantly higher percentages and chances than league average. On the other hand, is someone like Laine generating more shots or converting at a high rate (he very clearly does the 2nd). Although, that can also lead to the discussion of sustainability.

I personally, value primary points higher than secondary assists. I do think goals are the most valuable, but if a player is continually putting up very high primary assist numbers it can be ignored how he is driving and generating chances.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The truth is both are important.

But Assists measure the creation of offence and therefore one can say they are as important if not more than goals.

2 of the greatest players in the game and the best player in the game today racked up more assists on a regular basis on their resumes than anyone when they played. Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid.

Therefore one must conclude assists are more important.

 

[Aurinko]

The truth is both are important.

But Assists measure the creation of offence and therefore one can say they are as important if not more than goals.

2 of the greatest players in the game and the best player in the game today racked up more assists on a regular basis on their resumes than anyone when they played. Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid.

Therefore one must conclude assists are more important.

The truth is neither is important.

There are more important things in life like flowers.

 

[b in vancouver]

If you go through a random selection of 100 goals and watch the play you'll see that more often than not the player whom gets the assist actually made the harder/better play than the guy whom scored.

Then there's the furthest examples of players like Thornton, Oates and M. Savard whom earn every assist they got. Or The Sedins versus Anson Carter.

If you play hockey you know how hard those cross-ice passes are. Or to cycle the puck waiting for the winger to slide in. Or to exit the zone properly with a tape-to-tape pass that transitions from defence to offence. Or to catch a winger in stride to send him down on a two-on-one.

Goals are the glory. Assists are the work. And definitely equal.

Especially nowadays where we rarely have players like Stephane Richer just blazing down the wing on his own and blasting a shot over the goalies shoulder or Denis Savard undressing players on his own. The argument could've been made years ago that goals were worth more but it's less and less every year.

 

[3074326]

It depends on the goal. Question is meaningless without context for every goal. Sometimes the assist makes the goal, sometimes the assists are just raw points because the player happened to touch it.

 

[Peggy]

The truth is both are important.

But Assists measure the creation of offence and therefore one can say they are as important if not more than goals.

2 of the greatest players in the game and the best player in the game today racked up more assists on a regular basis on their resumes than anyone when they played. Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid.

Therefore one must conclude assists are more important.

It doesn't what's more important

Just what's worth more

And the assist is worth nothing without the goal

 

[Fantomas]

It depends on the goal. Question is meaningless without context for every goal. Sometimes the assist makes the goal, sometimes the assists are just raw points because the player happened to touch it.

Are men physically bigger than women? Well, it depends on the person. The question is meaningless without context.

Sometimes a man is bigger than a woman. Sometimes the lady is bigger than the man.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It doesn't what's more important

Just what's worth more

And the assist is worth nothing without the goal

Both are important. I think this is the one common thread here.

 

[3074326]

Are men physically bigger than women? Well, it depends on the person. The question is meaningless without context.

Sometimes a man is bigger than a woman. Sometimes the lady is bigger than the man.

I feel like you're agreeing with me, but for some reason I feel like you're not.

 

[Peggy]

Both are important. I think this is the one common thread here.

Of course both are important. Of course passing is important, of course shooting is important, of course skating is important

But what's worth more? The goal is the only thing that actually has value

They don't count assists to the scoreboard, they have stats for individual success, But the goal is what they really count to the game
The only thing that has more value than goals is the win

Try explaining to someone the rules of the game in simplistic terms

"The team who scores the most goals wins"

 

[LakeLivin]

Are men physically bigger than women? Well, it depends on the person. The question is meaningless without context.

Sometimes a man is bigger than a woman. Sometimes the lady is bigger than the man.

In general, the answer is "yes". Sure, there are many exceptions, but it's an undeniable fact that in general men are physically bigger than women.

 

[EdAVSfan]

As stated, “worth” always requires context.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Those winners tend to have tons of assists and not goals cause goals in general are hard to score. It's easier to rack up assists and win MVP then it is goals. 40 goal guys are a lot more rarer then 40 assist guys for a reason.

DUH ? As you wrote a few posts previous to the one I quoted "You can get up to two assists on a goal. Far more opertunity there".

So obviously, there's a great chance that there will be more 40-assist players than 40-goal players.

The obverse would be a great statistical anomaly...

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It would appear the overwhelming consensus is goals are more valuable based on the poll results.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Actually assists are worth nothing

The only thing that decides the winner is who has the most goals

But 95%+ of the goals would not be scored if there wasn't an assist.

And yes, I'm aware that a goal needs to be scored in order for assist(s) to be credited...

 

[Peggy]

But 95%+ of the goals would not be scored if there wasn't an assist.

And yes, I'm aware that a goal needs to be scored in order for assist(s) to be credited...

That stat has nothing to do with the value of the goal

The value of the goal has been decided by the rules of the game

The problem is people are looking at this question as an individual stat
But answer is based on the rules of the games

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That stat has nothing to do with the value of the goal

The value of the goal has been decided by the rules of the game

The problem is people are looking at this question as an individual stat
But answer is based on the rules of the games

I read you the first 4-5 times you wrote this or the equivalent.

What a discovery !

And you really don't think the OP and most posters weren't interested in discussing this as an individual stat while being fully aware that the team with the most goals would win the game ?

You must really think that HF posters are a bunch of ignoramuses !

 

[Peggy]

I read you the first 4-5 times you wrote this or the equivalent.

What a discovery !

And you really don't think the OP and most posters weren't interested in discussing this as an individual stat while being fully aware that the team with the most goals would win the game ?

You must really think that HF posters are a bunch of ignoramuses !

As a whole. Yes lol

Hf boards can never be on the same page and constantly change the arguments to fit their own narrative instead of staying on topic

As I said. Individual stat or not
The answer is in the rules of the game

It's a fact of the game that the goal is worth more. Not an opinion.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Hf boards can never be on the same page and constantly change the arguments to fit their own narrative instead of staying on topic

Isn't that what you are doing in this thread ?

Unless I'm profoundly mistaken and have lost all ability to read (even if it's in English), the vast majority in this thread was discussing the individual stat, except for you and a few other lost souls...

PS: "The answer is in the rules of the game" : How many times have you repeated that mantra in this thread ?

 

[Peggy]

Isn't that what you are doing in this thread ?

Unless I'm profoundly mistaken and have lost all ability to read (even if it's in English), the vast majority in this thread was discussing the individual stat, except for you and a few other lost souls...

PS: "The answer is in the rules of the game" : How many times have you repeated that mantra in this thread ?

Not at all. How have I changed the narrative?
Don't know if you noticed, But even if you dont agree with me. The majority agree with the concept that a goal is worth more

People are discussing individual stats because they decided to.
They've change the discussion to individual plays and whether or not the assist had more an influence on the goal. And they're discussing the value in that.
Or if a play maker is more valuable than a goal scorer
But that isn't the question.

Not everything is an opinion
The rules are who ever scores the most goals wins.
If The score some how counted assists then it would be a different didcussiom, But it doesn't
So just based on the rules of the game. The goal is worth more lol


You wanna discuss playmakers vs goal scorers to ahead
But the answer is " a goal is worth more than assist"

Connor McDavid is the best player in the world even tho Laine has scored more goals.
A goal is still worth more, But Connor is a better player. "But you how can Connor be better if he scores less goals"?
Because he generates the most offensive opportunities and converts them to goals via assist or shooting it in himself
So the argument becomes. What's more valuable, assisting the goal the, or shooting the goal. Of course it depends on the situation, But with a blanket statement like that. With no context that answer would have to be scoring the goal.
This is the problem with asking generic questions lol.
Ask a different question if you want a different answer lol

I'll repeat it because everyone always likes to dodge the statement