Are even strength points underrated in hockey ?

[LokiDog]

Give Draisaitl, Hoglander's even strength matchups and see if he scores more.
It's just a little easier to score against 4th liners and 3rd pairing D

Not only this, but the reason the guys on the PP unit are there, generally, is because they’ve got the requisite talent to be the most productive options in that spot. I know we don’t all always agree with our coaches choices, but generally speaking, there’s a reason the guys on the PP are getting those minutes. Yeah, you can say player A had 23 EV goals and 29 PP goals but player B had 24 EV goals (and 2 PP goals). You’re not going to convince many people that that the 26 goal scorer is a better player than the 52 goal scorer, despite him producing same/better at even strength. Additionally, as you pointed out, the guy who had the additional 29 PP goals is playing the toughest matchups because he’s a 50+ goal scorer who is game planned for. The burgeoning third liner who breaks 20G at EV for the first time in his career wasn’t.

 

[Reality Czech]

No but power play points are overrated

They’re actually extremely overrated on here

People want to act like PP is not a real part of the game and PP points shouldn’t count

Kind of a silly response. Obviously it's a lot more impressive scoring at even strength compared to the power play but I haven't heard a single person say they shouldn't count. It just allows certain players to pad their stats and put up gaudier stat lines. RNH's recent 100 point season for example.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Kind of a silly response. Obviously it's a lot more impressive scoring at even strength compared to the power play but I haven't heard a single person say they shouldn't count. It just allows certain players to pad their stats and put up gaudier stat lines. RNH's recent 100 point season for example.

Go in any Leon Draisaitl thread for 5 mins and you’ll see you’re wrong

It’s silly because you haven’t seen it? I’m sure there’s lots of things you haven’t seen that aren’t silly

 

[wintersej]

Point is a point, but I think PP output can be more swingy in a playoff series depending on the matchup and how the refs are deciding to call it that day.

 

[Reality Czech]

Go in any Leon Draisaitl thread for 5 mins and you’ll see you’re wrong

It’s silly because you haven’t seen it? I’m sure there’s lots of things you haven’t seen that aren’t silly

Fair enough. I'm sure there's a whole lot of silliness I'm not aware of

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think they are. Powerplays are political in nature. The game is stopped based on a judgment call and one player leaves the ice. 5 on 5 is hockey in its purest form. Who could argue that even strength points are not harder to get than PP points. And players who get them are not recognized enough.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1831489209888317574

65 points Even strength for Drai, vs 36 for Hoglander.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Ev points doesn not always mean 5 on 5. It can be 4 on 4 or 3 on 3. 5 on 5 points are underated however. Those r most important.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

5v5 is the most overrated shit ever. HF would've hated Mario Lemieux.

 

[Devilsfan2326]

Probably psychological from fantasy leagues rewarding powerplay points

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I think in general people don't realize how much special teams affect a players points totals. And thus, 5v5 points is a worthwhile stat in some discussions.

Especially in a case where some players get PP time on a bad team that they wouldn't get on most teams which fluffs their point total. Example Tyler Johnson on the Hawks last year. TJ won't get likely PP on the Bruins, so at first blush he's likely to disappoint if the expectation is what he produced last year.

 

[BraveCanadian]

By many, yes, by some no.

“A point is a point” at the micro level but ES ability correlates more with winning so it is technically not true to a small degree.

For example, any Gretzky Lemieux debate should end about the time people look at their ES production.

But then again some people attach a bit too much to ES production in some of the analyses on the boards here imo.

 

[TGWL]

Some star players may feast on powerplay points, but they also typically have harder deployment matchups 5 on 5, vs some top 9 players who might have a higher even strength production rate, yet get the less difficult match-up. I'm not saying you should take even strength scoring for granted, but there's definitely missing information when fans compare just numbers.

 

[MessierII]

Overrated if anything

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Some folks act like scoring on the PP doesn't actually impact results. They should have watched the Penguins last season. Pens were actually 6th in the entire league in GF at 5on5, but their PP was atrocious and cost them so many games. Pens make the playoffs last year if they were even average on the PP.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Some folks act like scoring on the PP doesn't actually impact results. They should have watched the Penguins last season. Pens were actually 6th in the entire league in GF at 5on5, but their PP was atrocious and cost them so many games. Pens make the playoffs last year if they were even average on the PP.

That is true but players who are good at ES tend to be good on the PP anyways, and ES has more correlation with winning hockey games.

 

[Bank Shot]

By many, yes, by some no.

“A point is a point” at the micro level but ES ability correlates more with winning so it is technically not true to a small degree.

For example, any Gretzky Lemieux debate should end about the time people look at their ES production.

But then again some people attach a bit too much to ES production in some of the analyses on the boards here imo.

ES ability does correlate to winning. That isn't what this thread is about however.

It is about a player Hoglander, who isn't a good ES player, being compared to a player who is because of a statistical anomaly. Old Hogs was a healthy scratch during the playoffs. That doesn't usually happen to strong ES players. Weird.

It's troll fuel at best, and complete lack of any sense of reality at worst.

 

[TheDoldrums]

It's possible to have entire games go by without any PP opportunities. So yeah, all things equal it would be better to be an elite ES producer than an elite PP producer.

Also I think people need to appreciate the context of some people putting up PP points. Draisaitl is obviously a key player on the PP. But for my team, Morgan Rielly, some years he's put up a ton of PP points without really doing much. He's just the guy at the top of the formation who passes between Matthews/Marner/Nylander and gets a ton of assists but really a lot of guys could do a similar job and his PP production overstates his effectiveness.

 

[Brookbank]

5v5 is the most overrated shit ever. HF would've hated Mario Lemieux.

I Like Blake Colman.

 

[The Panther]

Are even strength points underrated in hockey ?​

Not really, no. There was a time in the past when I'd say ES points were more valuable and therefore production of them was more to a player's credit than PP points, but we're no longer in the playoff era of one referee when he would watch elbows to the head all night, swallow the whistle, and pretend he didn't see flagrant infractions (most of you aren't old enough to remember this). There used to be fewer PP's in the playoffs and in "meaningful" games, but that's not the case today.

So, in conclusion, no.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Yes and no to the OP.

Goal are goals and it doesn't matter where you get them.

But particularly in the CAP era it's all about value when it comes to player evaluation, ie value above replacement (at same cost). It is easier to get PP points so what is a good amount of points, given power play opportunity, is different (higher) comparing to ES points.

It's also not that simple, player A may get a high percentage of points at even strength but is not able to get as many PP points as player B who can get them well both at ES and PP, hence player B is the better offensive producer.

Player C may be a powerplay specialist and gets all of their points on the PP, has alot of opportunity and get slightly more points than player A. This doesn't make player C a better offensive producer than player A.

It's all about opportunity and relative performances so you can't break to down to one being overated...

 

[Kaners PPGs]

As a fantasy hockey player I've always wondered why power play points (PPP) are a category. If anything, even strenght points (ESP) should be the category and players would be rewarded for scoring when it's more difficult. And considering that the playoffs typically have fewer PPs called, even strenght points should be given more credit.

 

[ijuka]

"Underrated"? They're overrated if anything. If a team has a strong power play, the team will more than likely perform well. Why would power play goals not count?

 

[Brookbank]

"Underrated"? They're overrated if anything. If a team has a strong power play, the team will more than likely perform well. Why would power play goals not count?

Last I checked, it is easier to score goals when your opposition is short handed

 

[NotCommitted]

PPs are a huge part of the game, even in the playoffs. Contenders usually can do a pretty good job of shutting down scoring 5v5 when needed. The PP opportunities might be more scarce, but that just makes it even more important to score on the ones you do get. Like CAR-NYR series pretty much came down to dysfunctional PP vs hot PP and guess which took the series...

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Last I checked, it is easier to score goals when your opposition is short handed

So everyone should be able to do it at draisaitls rate then. Oh wait no because having that skill is valuable