Are even strength points underrated in hockey ?

[PuckG]

I think this board overrates even strength goals but underrated PP goals.

As an example, I feel like if my team had a better PP we would’ve beaten the Oilers in the playoffs, who had an incredibly good PP.

I agree with the bolded.

Your second statement can be spun in any way you want between two teams (if we were better at 5v5, PP, PK, goaltending etc…then the outcome would be different) - but it is a refreshing statement compared to the usual 3rd string goalie/injury excuse that always comes up (while simultaneously ignoring oppositions injuries).

 

[CanadienShark]

What are you talking about?

 

[majormajor]

There's a good discussion to be had about different types of points and how the players stack up that way. But you then ruin that by putting in a bad tweet, it's obviously a weak troll job.

A point is a point, but player value depends on how many points they score relative to what other players would score in those situations.

A fourth or fifth guy on a top PP is getting a lot of points that the sixth best guy for the job would likely approximate if he was lucky enough to get the job.

What Draisaitl and McDavid do is entirely different. When Draisaitl scores a million points on the powerplay, that isn't replaceable. It's just insane value. He benefits from those around him but he's also largely responsible for all the extra scoring that RNH, Hyman, Bouchard, and even McDavid get.

Is the OP even serious?

When Hoglander and Draisaitl met in the playoffs, Hoglander had two points total. Draisaitl had 12 in 6 games and 8 of those were even strength.

 

[Three On Zero]

That's why I said this earlier, the tweet creator is an obvious troll.

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And why I said that the OP of this thread knew what he was doing when he made the thread, it was going to create discourse.

Thread would have been fine without the tweet... But less fun.

Twitter itself is a giant troll , that platform has fallen HARD.

 

[Coffey]

Twitter itself is a giant troll , that platform has fallen HARD.

Hell ya, man.
Any fandom of video games, sports, wrestling, movies is just non stop trolling and toxicity.

Forums rule.

 

[kcunac]

I agree with the bolded.

Your second statement can be spun in any way you want between two teams (if we were better at 5v5, PP, PK, goaltending etc…then the outcome would be different) - but it is a refreshing statement compared to the usual 3rd string goalie/injury excuse that always comes up (while simultaneously ignoring oppositions injuries).

Just saying that the PP is often the difference in playoffs because teams are often more evenly matched and have defences/systems that can stifle 5v5 offence.

 

[OilerTyler]

Draisaitl has never been a huge even strength goal scorer. He's generally more of a playmaker at even strength. Probably the best power play goal scorer in the league though.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Who are the best even strength point producers in the nhl right now?

 

[dgibb10]

I think this board overrates even strength goals but underrated PP goals.

As an example, I feel like if my team had a better PP we would’ve beaten the Oilers in the playoffs, who had an incredibly good PP.

PP goals aren't valuable on their own. They require context of how many PP opportunities it took to get them.

I don't assign a lot of value to members of bad power plays.

Are the guys on the flyers PP1 really providing more than guys who don't get PP1 opportunity at all?

Leading a good PP is incredibly valuable though. The value McDrai provide is INCREDIBLY large in terms of how they can cook at a high level on the PP.

Same with the other big PP engines like Kuch/Point/Stamkos, Kreider/Panarin, Hughes, Hughes, Kaprizov, etc

 

[Coffey]

Who are the best even strength point producers in the nhl right now?

You know the answer, Byron.

Last 5 years

It's not Neal Hogfarmer.

 

[Three On Zero]

Who are the best even strength point producers in the nhl right now?

For goals? This was last season

 

[Bank Shot]

The Canucks had more "career years" the season before. There was 4 30 goal scoreres in 22/23. In 23/24 there was 3.

Next

Its not about "Career years". It is about basic stats and people that spread infographics that don't understand those basic stats.



By all means keep believing in magic and manifest destiny though.

 

[Brookbank]

For goals? This was last season

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Where's McDrai ?

 

[Dhockey16]

Could be useful when assessing a player who doesn't get much power play time. A point is a point is a point though. Being a "power play merchant" is in fact a skill

 

[Regal]

As a team, a goal is a goal, and ideally you’re good at both, but it is something that’s important to distinguish in terms of roles when comparing players for roster construction. ES points tend to be more important when we’re discussing the complementary players. There’s only so many PP spots to go around and often the 5th best player on the PP is getting points that someone else could also have on the same position who might not receive PP time. It tends to be less so for star players because they’re the ones running the PP.

But it definitely has to be something to consider and anyone suggesting otherwise is naive. If you’re the Oilers and have one of the best PPs of all time and you can add one of two 80 point players, and one is great at ES and one is great on the PP, you easily take the ES player because it’s more likely he’d provide the team with more actual goals since the PP player is somewhat redundant

 

[Regal]

A guy contibuting to an 85% PK is honestly providing just as much value as a guy contributing to a 25% PP.

I think the problem is seperating coaching from individual talent/play and assigning credit/blame between different members of a PK.

There's really no great way to do that outside of on/off splits (which can be questionable and have a lot of noise involved), or watching hours upon hours of tape of guys across the league.

Look at how people freaked out about the Yakov Trenin contract when he's one of the best PKing forwards in hockey.

And a lot of times star forwards get far too much credit for PKing even if they kinda suck at it (I'm looking at you Mitch Marner)

I don’t think that can ever be true because of how major the goaltender is for the PK team. But I do think it’s underrated overall.

 

[Soundwave]

1 goal is 1 goal is 1 goal. Unless the NHL institutes like a NBA style setup where ES goals are worth like 1.2 goals or something, it doesn't matter how you get it done.

 

[VaporTrail]

Hoglander for Draisaitl e3

 

[Mr Kot]

Where's McDrai ?

at your moms house

 

[Soundwave]

Where's McDrai ?

McDavid's shot was crippled because he was playing with a ab tear injury for the season, hence going from 64 goals down to 32. The fact that they made game 7 of a Cup Final anyway is telling.

Draisaitl was stuck with 3rd line players like Foegele and Holloway on his line who aren't going to set him up, this year is probably the first year he's going to have a legit top 6 winger on his own line (Arvidsson) since having Taylor Hall as a rookie (other than times when he is paired with McDavid obviously).

 

[Coffey]

Where's McDrai ?

Where’s a single Canuck?

 

[Regal]

at your moms house

That’s just gonna lead to another abdominal injury

 

[Oilslick941611]

I didnt hear canucks fans whining about PP merchants when Naslund and Bertuzzi were getting 45-119% of their goals on the PP in the early 2000s

 

[Shocker]

For goals? This was last season

View attachment 905551

No, he pretty clearly said point producers, not goalscorers.

 

[Golden_Jet]

For goals? This was last season

View attachment 905551

No not goals it says points