Are even strength points underrated in hockey ?

[Brookbank]

I think they are. Powerplays are political in nature. The game is stopped based on a judgment call and one player leaves the ice. 5 on 5 is hockey in its purest form. Who could argue that even strength points are not harder to get than PP points. And players who get them are not recognized enough.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1831489209888317574

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[Bear of Bad News]

The game is stopped based on a judgment call

I'm not sure what you're advocating for here, but the entire sport of hockey is 100% comprised of judgment calls (including but not limited to who gets to play to begin with, and who gets to play with whom).

Judgment calls are not the enemy.

 

[Pip]

If you’re going to push that argument I would suggest not supporting it with a tweet intended to troll

 

[PuckG]

Goofy ass post with the tweet you’re using to justify it.

A point is a point. A goal is a goal. Score more than the opposition to win irrespective of the circumstances.

Enjoy Hoglander with your 4 additional 5v5 goals in one season. We’ll enjoy Art Ross, Hart, Ted Lindsay, 5 x 100 point scorer, 3 x 50 goal scorer Draisaitl.

As a side note, Draisaitl had 39 out of his 106 points come on the PP (36%).

JT Miller had 40 out of 103 points on the PP (38%).

Q. Hughes had 38 out of 92 points come on the PP (41%).

Canucks players used as a comparison since that’s what the tweet started with. Don’t forget, many of those players play with each other on the ice. Don’t forget to implement your deductions based on them being “merchants” from one another.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Im sold.... drafting Hoglander over Drai moving forward

 

[Brookbank]

If you’re going to push that argument I would suggest not supporting it with a tweet intended to troll

Its clearly sarcasm.

 

[mcdingdong]

Damn, didn't realize PP points were worth less on the scoreboard.

Maybe if Vancouver scored more on the PP we wouldn't have to hear so much whining about third-string goalies.

 

[Pip]

Its clearly sarcasm.

Obviously but if you’re trying to make a serious thread it completely undermines it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes ES points are more difficult to generate, which is why scoring is lower at ES.

But when it comes to winning hockey games, a point is a point. The guy who scores more points will help you win more games.

The caveat is that there is an argument for preferring ES scorers in the playoffs, when power plays are at such a premium. But a) the game is headed in a direction to have more PPs in the playoffs, and b) effective special teams are almost a prerequisite for being a Cup contender. Again, points are points and you certainly don’t want to take a guy who scores fewer points just because he scores them at ES.

 

[Three On Zero]

Yes ES points are more difficult to generate, which is why scoring is lower at ES.

But when it comes to winning hockey games, a point is a point. The guy who scores more points will help you win more games.

The caveat is that there is an argument for preferring ES scorers in the playoffs, when power plays are at such a premium. But a) the game is headed in a direction to have more PPs in the playoffs, and b) effective special teams are almost a prerequisite for being a Cup contender. Again, points are points and you certainly don’t want to take a guy who scores fewer points just because he scores them at ES.

This, even strength is a more “pure” form of generating points but at the end of the day you need to be good at all facets of the game. The guy who does 25 even and 15 on the powerplay will be worth more than the guy who scores 25 even and 0 on the powerplay

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Have you read this forum? People love even strength points here.

At the end of the day though, they DO count for the same amount on the scoreboard. I think that if scoring on the powerplay was not a skill, every team would have roughly the same PP%

 

[Sasha Orlov]

They’re actually extremely overrated on here

People want to act like PP is not a real part of the game and PP points shouldn’t count

 

[PuckG]

They’re actually extremely overrated on here

People want to act like PP is not a real part of the game and PP points shouldn’t count

The whole “Eliminate a portion of the game so that my argument isn’t as shitty” has to be one of the dumber things we see on these boards.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I personally believe it is better because it is so much rarer. End of the day a point is a point.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

Every player in your line up plays a fair amount of Even Strength time, only a select few players on your roster get significant PP time in many cases

 

[Three On Zero]

I personally believe it is better because it is so much rarer. End of the day a point is a point.

Even strength will always be held in higher regard but you can’t get focused on one aspect, the biggest issue is when you have a player that’s heavily reliant on the PP that they become really ineffective at 5on5. Which is a very rare occurrence

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Give Draisaitl, Hoglander's even strength matchups and see if he scores more.
It's just a little easier to score against 4th liners and 3rd pairing D

 

[tarheelhockey]

The whole “Eliminate a portion of the game so that my argument isn’t as shitty” has to be one of the dumber things we see on these boards.

It makes sense sometimes, like when two players finish with the same amount of points but one of has a lot more PP points and the other didn’t play as much the PP. You can at least make a reasonable guess that the player with more ES points is capable of producing a lot more points than the other guy given the same opportunities, and that his deployment at ES/SH signals he is also better rounded.

The problem is reducing it all down to ES > PP, which was not the original intent of breaking the game down this way.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

David Savard had same even strength points as Moritz Seider in 20 less games, come on Stevie Y save yourself the headache of RFA negotiations and about $6MM:year on the Cap and swap 1:1

 

[LOFIN]

I think in general people don't realize how much special teams affect a players points totals. And thus, 5v5 points is a worthwhile stat in some discussions.

 

[Canadienna]

If anything, I sometimes feel like people forget PP goals still count all the same on the scoreboard.

If you're making the argument that someone is a PP merchant and thus maybe they'd struggle in the playoffs with less PP opportunities, well maybe that could be a reasonable argument, but it clearly doesn't apply to Drai.

The NHL Playoffs are changing anyways. Powerplays played a huge role in this years playoffs, and the PP specialist the OP is referencing was a big part of a run to Game 7 SCF.

 

[PuckG]

If anything, I sometimes feel like people forget PP goals still count all the same on the scoreboard.

If you're making the argument that someone is a PP merchant and thus maybe they'd struggle in the playoffs with less PP opportunities, well maybe that could be a reasonable argument, but it clearly doesn't apply to Drai.

The NHL Playoffs are changing anyways. Powerplays played a huge role in this years playoffs, and the PP specialist the OP is referencing was a big part of a run to Game 7 SCF.

While I don’t disagree, referring to Draisaitl as a PP specialist is blatantly incorrect (as the OP inferred). Unless we’re deciding to qualify anyone who produces a bigger portion of their points on the PP as power play specialists as well (e.g. Q. Hughes or JT Miller).

 

[K1984]

People with functioning brains don't have a problem realizing that power play goals count the same as even strength goals, and that teams with lethal power plays don't need to push to produce 5 on 5 offense to the same degree as teams with poor power plays.

Folks in Vancouver will probably have a hard time with this, as highlighted by the cope tweet comparing Hoglander to Draisaitl.

 

[Coffey]

How could they be underrated? You ever been in an HF thread?
Power play merchant is the new buzzword in the last few years.

Also poor Draisaitl being compared to Hogfarmer.
He's 6 in the league for EVP in the last decade and he didn't even play a full season till 2015.

lmaoooooooooooooooo

 

[Else Ermine]

Everyone values even strength points more than power play points, just like everyone knows 100 is more than 99.

Having an anemic powerplay in the second round against Leon Draisaitl's Oilers wasn't enjoyable if I recall.