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Player Discussion Arber Xhekaj the Sheriff Returns Edition

salbutera said:
How so? No one said Xhekaj will just be given away for free. He’ll be one of the components sacrificed in a deal IMO.
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The Habs need a physical presence in order to be successful.

Do you remember when Boston had Lucic, Thornton, etc, the Habs had Kostpoulos and White and the fan motto/cope was "we'll make them pay on the power play"?

That Boston team won a Cup.
 
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Miller Time said:
This entire post is an epic fail... Too many holes to bother pointing out each one.

Elite sports doesn't work the way you think it does.

Fortunately, the team is currently run by a group that do understand what building a culture of excellence in professional sports requires, and they have the right people in place at the key positions to execute on it.

The success we are enjoying in this rebuild speaks for itself.
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That guy thinks Arber Xhekaj is the next Chara, I argued with him about it one time. Any time X isn't predictably able to develop into Zdeno he's gonna tee off on Marty's management style because it's Marty who is holding Xhekaj back from becoming Chara. (Insert 40 eye roll emojis)

The reality is that X provides basically zero offense. He has very little vision, mobility, first pass, creativity, or anything to generate chances at the NHL level. He has a huge shot which he never ever gets off because he has less mobility than I do at the blue line.

Thus, he needs to be an absolute rock defensively, and he has not been lately. When you're trying to stick around the NHL as a defensive defenceman you can't be making poor decisions and miscalculations because you obviously won't be making up for it on the offensive end. This is a very one dimensional player who doesn't have a ton of runway to develop into something more. He's not young and his skating is mid to put it kindly.

Other than his toughness it will be hard to keep him in the lineup, especially when someone like Adam Engstrom is ready. I really don't know if he'll be here for the long term but let's hope for some big time development and a crazy parabolic jump in his skating ability and then we're talking.
 
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DAChampion said:
The Habs need a physical presence in order to be successful.

Do you remember when Boston had Lucic, Thornton, etc, the Habs had Kostpoulos and White and the fan motto/cope was "we'll make them pay on the power play"?

That Boston team won a Cup.
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That’s not Gorton, Hughes, MSL M.O… they’re skill + hockey IQ above all else types
 
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DAChampion said:
IQ and skill won't express themselves if everybody is scared.
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Just look at Habs present 4th line - big bodies in Armia & Heineken … that’s their prototype for “toughness” - size w skill + hockey IQ. They won’t sacrifice the latter for size .. that’s simply not the way USA Hockey develops, which HuGo, MSL and Grillo have been intimately involved with.

Struble is another example, size + grit but possesses high end skating / edgework - Xhekaj lacks that high end skill other than his shot
 
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salbutera said:
Just look at Habs present 4th line - big bodies in Armia & Heineken … that’s their prototype for “toughness” - size w skill + hockey IQ. They won’t sacrifice the latter for size .. that’s simply not the way USA Hockey develops, which HuGo, MSL and Grillo have been intimately involved with.

Struble is another example, size + grit but possesses high end skating / edgework - Xhekaj lacks that high end skill other than his shot
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Can you distinguish between the toughness provided by Armia and that provided by Xhekaj?
 
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DAChampion said:
IQ and skill won't express themselves if everybody is scared.
Click to expand...

Which is why you need guys with some toughness that can play, and pushback throughout your lineup.

We don't have enough of either right now, as the roster is currently constituted. But one tough guy alone can't make enough of a difference to offset a soft roster.

We need a more "collectively-tough" team culture, and to add middle-6 players and top-4 defensemen with gumption to fuel that identity.

Thing is, at this point in his career Xhekaj is a good #6 defenseman and that's it. He helps with depth, and when trying to balance-out teams with a lot of toughness, but Xhekaj currently can't really help our top-end be harder-to-play-against.

If Xhekaj was able to play 20-21 minutes of reliable hockey a night, we wouldn't be having this conversation and he'd be pretty close to an untouchable on our team considering his age, size, toughness, and physicality.

But Xhekaj hasn't shown the level of play required for that role long-term as of yet. Plain and simple.

And then there's the fact that Xhekaj HAS progressed here and there since his rookie year, but that he has yet to show any form of consistency for longer periods of time, which is exactly what you'd want to start seeing in a young D in his 3rd season in the pros.

Quantifiably-speaking, the improvements Xhekaj has shown also haven't been exactly earth-shaking in the last couple of years.

If we look at Xhekaj's usage, well, it's abundantly clear that he also hasn't been trusted on the PK, which I think is warranted considering that Xhekaj has some pretty glaring defensive lapses at times.

Moreover, the "fancy stats" also show that Xhekaj hasn't been a net-positive on puck-possession at 5-on-5 so that, combined with somewhat sheltered deployment 5-on-5 and what we've already talked about, kind of compounds the issue a bit in Xhekaj's case.

The thing Xhekaj has going for him is his toughness, how he IS good at helping break the cycle with his strength on the boards, how he can protect the front-of-the-net, and his overall physical abilities, as well as the flashes of potential on D that he sometimes shows (and frustrates me with at times).

But Xhekaj still needs a lot of development defensively, and some maturing-up to do on how to be a consistent pro before he becomes a legit top-4 defenseman and more than a complementary piece for us.

Unfortunately, at this point it isn't immediately evident if Xhekaj will in fact ever manage to reach that playing level. Some players simply don't progress much past certain thresholds. It just is what it is.

So yeah, I'd personally keep Xhekaj, continue giving him playing time and trying to see if he might not finally be able to take the next step for the Canadiens.

I'd also look at adding some guys with toughness and playing ability to shore the middle-6 and second defensive pairing. But that might be hard to do/gauge given the volatility of the UFA market and that EVERY team is looking to get tougher/better.

Incidentally, in the unlikely scenario of a deal for a higher-end piece on D with some toughness necessitating Xhekaj to be included, our management should be ready to trade him (plus more obviously) if it is what it takes.
 
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salbutera said:
Just look at Habs present 4th line - big bodies in Armia & Heineken … that’s their prototype for “toughness” - size w skill + hockey IQ. They won’t sacrifice the latter for size .. that’s simply not the way USA Hockey develops, which HuGo, MSL and Grillo have been intimately involved with.
Click to expand...

And I'll include Evans in that this line brings absolute zero to the game right now.
 
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JadedRandom said:
Which is why you need guys with some toughness that can play, and pushback throughout your lineup.

We don't have enough of either right now, as the roster is currently constituted. But one tough guy alone can't make enough of a difference to offset a soft roster.

We need a more "collectively-tough" team culture, and to add middle-6 players and top-4 defensemen with gumption to fuel that identity.

Thing is, at this point in his career Xhekaj is a good #6 defenseman and that's it. He helps with depth, and when trying to balance-out teams with a lot of toughness, but Xhekaj currently can't really help our top-end be harder-to-play-against.

If Xhekaj was able to play 20-21 minutes of reliable hockey a night, we wouldn't be having this conversation and he'd be pretty close to an untouchable on our team considering his age, size, toughness, and physicality.

But Xhekaj hasn't shown the level of play required for that role long-term as of yet. Plain and simple.

And then there's the fact that Xhekaj HAS progressed here and there since his rookie year, but that he has yet to show any form of consistency for longer periods of time, which is exactly what you'd want to start seeing in a young D in his 3rd season in the pros.

Quantifiably-speaking, the improvements Xhekaj has shown also haven't been exactly earth-shaking in the last couple of years.

If we look at Xhekaj's usage, well, it's abundantly clear that he also hasn't been trusted on the PK, which I think is warranted considering that Xhekaj has some pretty glaring defensive lapses at times.

Moreover, the "fancy stats" also show that Xhekaj hasn't been a net-positive on puck-possession at 5-on-5 so that, combined with somewhat sheltered deployment 5-on-5 and what we've already talked about, kind of compounds the issue a bit in Xhekaj's case.

The thing Xhekaj has going for him is his toughness, how he IS good at helping break the cycle with his strength on the boards, how he can protect the front-of-the-net, and his overall physical abilities, as well as the flashes of potential on D that he sometimes shows (and frustrates me with at times).

But Xhekaj still needs a lot of development defensively, and some maturing-up to do on how to be a consistent pro before he becomes a legit top-4 defenseman and more than a complementary piece for us.

Unfortunately, at this point it isn't immediately evident if Xhekaj will in fact ever manage to reach that playing level. Some players simply don't progress much past certain thresholds. It just is what it is.

So yeah, I'd personally keep Xhekaj, continue giving him playing time and trying to see if he might not finally be able to take the next step for the Canadiens.

I'd also look at adding some guys with toughness and playing ability to shore the middle-6 and second defensive pairing. But that might be hard to do/gauge given the volatility of the UFA market and that EVERY team is looking to get tougher/better.

Incidentally, in the unlikely scenario of a deal for a higher-end piece on D with some toughness necessitating Xhekaj to be included, our management should be ready to trade him (plus more obviously) if it is what it takes.
Click to expand...
I still gotta see the Xhekaj brothers in the lineup first before I even think of trading him. Skills and toughness throughout the lineup I think is the way to get to the next level. I believe Arber and Florian are going to be a big part of that. There's still room for improvement.

For me, the left side is set. Hutson, Guhle, Xhekaj.
 
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JadedRandom said:
Which is why you need guys with some toughness that can play, and pushback throughout your lineup.

We don't have enough of either right now, as the roster is currently constituted. But one tough guy alone can't make enough of a difference to offset a soft roster.

We need a more "collectively-tough" team culture, and to add middle-6 players and top-4 defensemen with gumption to fuel that identity.

Thing is, at this point in his career Xhekaj is a good #6 defenseman and that's it. He helps with depth, and when trying to balance-out teams with a lot of toughness, but Xhekaj currently can't really help our top-end be harder-to-play-against.

If Xhekaj was able to play 20-21 minutes of reliable hockey a night, we wouldn't be having this conversation and he'd be pretty close to an untouchable on our team considering his age, size, toughness, and physicality.

But Xhekaj hasn't shown the level of play required for that role long-term as of yet. Plain and simple.

And then there's the fact that Xhekaj HAS progressed here and there since his rookie year, but that he has yet to show any form of consistency for longer periods of time, which is exactly what you'd want to start seeing in a young D in his 3rd season in the pros.

Quantifiably-speaking, the improvements Xhekaj has shown also haven't been exactly earth-shaking in the last couple of years.

If we look at Xhekaj's usage, well, it's abundantly clear that he also hasn't been trusted on the PK, which I think is warranted considering that Xhekaj has some pretty glaring defensive lapses at times.

Moreover, the "fancy stats" also show that Xhekaj hasn't been a net-positive on puck-possession at 5-on-5 so that, combined with somewhat sheltered deployment 5-on-5 and what we've already talked about, kind of compounds the issue a bit in Xhekaj's case.

The thing Xhekaj has going for him is his toughness, how he IS good at helping break the cycle with his strength on the boards, how he can protect the front-of-the-net, and his overall physical abilities, as well as the flashes of potential on D that he sometimes shows (and frustrates me with at times).

But Xhekaj still needs a lot of development defensively, and some maturing-up to do on how to be a consistent pro before he becomes a legit top-4 defenseman and more than a complementary piece for us.

Unfortunately, at this point it isn't immediately evident if Xhekaj will in fact ever manage to reach that playing level. Some players simply don't progress much past certain thresholds. It just is what it is.

So yeah, I'd personally keep Xhekaj, continue giving him playing time and trying to see if he might not finally be able to take the next step for the Canadiens.

I'd also look at adding some guys with toughness and playing ability to shore the middle-6 and second defensive pairing. But that might be hard to do/gauge given the volatility of the UFA market and that EVERY team is looking to get tougher/better.

Incidentally, in the unlikely scenario of a deal for a higher-end piece on D with some toughness necessitating Xhekaj to be included, our management should be ready to trade him (plus more obviously) if it is what it takes.
Click to expand...

I agree that Xhekaj is a number 6 now and that the team needs more toughness in other parts of the lineup.
 
DAChampion said:
The Habs need a physical presence in order to be successful.

Do you remember when Boston had Lucic, Thornton, etc, the Habs had Kostpoulos and White and the fan motto/cope was "we'll make them pay on the power play"?

That Boston team won a Cup.
Click to expand...
Having a physical presence who has demonstrated that he's a below replacement level defenseman and hurts his team on the ice is not the kind of toughness you need.

One might as well sign Ryan Reeves.

And, no Arber is not Reeves, but he is a plug - the best comparison is a bigger defenseman Pezzetta.
 
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Walksss said:
That guy thinks Arber Xhekaj is the next Chara, I argued with him about it one time. Any time X isn't predictably able to develop into Zdeno he's gonna tee off on Marty's management style because it's Marty who is holding Xhekaj back from becoming Chara. (Insert 40 eye roll emojis)

The reality is that X provides basically zero offense. He has very little vision, mobility, first pass, creativity, or anything to generate chances at the NHL level. He has a huge shot which he never ever gets off because he has less mobility than I do at the blue line.

Thus, he needs to be an absolute rock defensively, and he has not been lately. When you're trying to stick around the NHL as a defensive defenceman you can't be making poor decisions and miscalculations because you obviously won't be making up for it on the offensive end. This is a very one dimensional player who doesn't have a ton of runway to develop into something more. He's not young and his skating is mid to put it kindly.

Other than his toughness it will be hard to keep him in the lineup, especially when someone like Adam Engstrom is ready. I really don't know if he'll be here for the long term but let's hope for some big time development and a crazy parabolic jump in his skating ability and then we're talking.
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I actually said that he has the shot and physical attributes of a Chara, not that he's actually going to be the next Chara. I also pointed out that Chara didn't develop to that level overnight. Which implied that X has potential of developing much further. Or not.

I know, reading is hard and limited IQ doesn't help you.
 
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No More Subban said:
I still gotta see the Xhekaj brothers in the lineup first before I even think of trading him. Skills and toughness throughout the lineup I think is the way to get to the next level. I believe Arber and Florian are going to be a big part of that. There's still room for improvement.

For me, the left side is set. Hutson, Guhle, Xhekaj.
Click to expand...

Prepare to be disappointed, Struble is already a much better player. Xhekaj is going to need to really develop in a massive way to stay in this lineup.

Engstrom is gonna take that spot long term imo, no question.
 
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HuGo Sham said:
and we saw what happened in NY where Tom Wilson got Gorton fired.
I wouldn't be giving up on Arber just yet - and when we lose this type of
player, everyone will start crying again that we lack toughness and legitimate
deterrent
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Who has TBay ever had whose only capability is as a pugilist? Stars? Avs? Canes?

Just as Harris fell down the ad depth cart last season, Xhekaj has been passed by Struble and Laval prospects this season
 
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