Anze Kopitar vs Patrick Kane

[wetcoast]

Eh, engine more of a buzzword...Kane was a clearly better player than Toews in two of their cup winning seasons and pretty much equal in the lockout winning one.



Kane was Chicago's best player in 09-10(or at least best forward) and 14-15 both years they won the Cup

That's debatable unless you are solely using counting stats.

In 12-13 he was top 5 in scoring the only player in the West to do so while being held back playing with Dave Bolland and Michael Handzus

I'm not going to go back and watch the games but both those guys were centers in that run and looking at Bollands usage I doubt that he played a ton with Kane that year.

Did you mean Bickell?

 

[CokenoPepsi]

That's debatable unless you are solely using counting stats.



I'm not going to go back and watch the games but both those guys were centers in that run and looking at Bollands usage I doubt that he played a ton with Kane that year.

Did you mean Bickell?

Bolland was Kane's main center in 2013, then Hawks got Handzus and he started playing with Kane.

In 14-15 Kane was leading the league in scoring for much of the season and then missed the final 20 games of the year, he was absolutely the best player on the team.

Doing so playing with an ancient just bought out Brad Richards.

 

[x Tame Impala]

By weird sure if you mean that I'm a big picture guy not just a counting stats or trophy counting guy.

However you want to frame it friend. We’re all entitled to our opinions

 

[Regal]

Kopitar was always better than Toews, and was the 3rd best center in the league after Crosby and Malkin for a year or two in the early 2010s. The Kings teams he played on were very defensive-oriented in a low scoring time period. To me he clearly had the better prime, peak is much closer and I went with Kane due to his 2016 season but could be convinced otherwise.

Nonsense. Toews and Kopitar’s production was nearly identical through their primes with Toews being the better goal scorer. The Kings were more defensive and Kopitar had worse linemates but that was pretty much entirely accounted for by his worse 5v5 production and Kopitar having a more productive role on the Kings PP.

 

[wmupreds]

Kane for peak, went Kopitar for prime because it seems somehow his prime is still not over

 

[norrisnick]

If peak is synonymous with scoring totals, Kane has an argument. IMO Kopitar is and was the better player.

 

[wetcoast]

Bolland was Kane's main center in 2013, then Hawks got Handzus and he started playing with Kane.

In 14-15 Kane was leading the league in scoring for much of the season and then missed the final 20 games of the year, he was absolutely the best player on the team.

Doing so playing with an ancient just bought out Brad Richards.

Thanks for the clarification as your first sentence talked about SC runs and I was looking at the 12-13 playoffs.

That being said Kane had 7 more points than Toews does that really make him better that year?

Hart voting suggests otherwise.

 

[Felidae]

If peak is synonymous with scoring totals, Kane has an argument. IMO Kopitar is and was the better player.

I picked Kopitar for prime because most of the time, the offensive gap is pretty minimal on a season per season basis, and of course taking into account usage.

But Kane's peak was pretty damn high.

Kane had a 28 point gap over 7th in points and a 14 goal gap over 15th in goals.

Those specific placements is were Kopitar finished in his highest scoring season.

 

[norrisnick]

I picked Kopitar for prime because most of the time, the offensive gap is pretty minimal on a season per season basis, and of course taking into account usage.

But Kane's peak was pretty damn high.

Kane had a 28 point gap over 7th in points and a 14 goal gap over 15th in goals.

Those specific placements is were Kopitar finished in his highest scoring season.

Again, if offense is the one and only thing that factors into peak, Kane has an argument. I don't view a hockey player that way.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Thanks for the clarification as your first sentence talked about SC runs and I was looking at the 12-13 playoffs.

That being said Kane had 7 more points than Toews does that really make him better that year?

Hart voting suggests otherwise.

It certainly close, Toews was 4th, Kane 6th they were both elite that year.

I find people lump that whole time together, but with the Hawks they did have the lull there getting knocked out twice in the first round...which seemed to be the only time Toews was clear cut best player.

But when you actually go look at just those cup winning teams Kane does seem to have the edge there

 

[Herby]

I just don't know if the difference in offense makes up for just how much better an all-around player Kopitar was/is. Kopitar's game-sense in the defensive zone is off-the-charts good, and even at his advanced age he is still one of the best in the league. He did so much heavy-lifting defensively for the Kings, and was also expected to be the teams leading scorer, which he has been for all but three of his 19 NHL seasons (ranging from age 18 to 37)

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Nonsense. Toews and Kopitar’s production was nearly identical through their primes with Toews being the better goal scorer. The Kings were more defensive and Kopitar had worse linemates but that was pretty much entirely accounted for by his worse 5v5 production and Kopitar having a more productive role on the Kings PP.

Toews scored at around a 15% higher rate at 5v5 from 2010-2014, which is a point in his favor. However, Toews also played with significantly better linemates: over this time period his most common linemates were Kane, Hossa and Sharp. Kopitar did not have any hall of fame wingers on his line, he had Dustin Brown and Justin Williams. And when you take into account that Kopitar played under Darryl Sutter vs one of the best transition teams in Chicago at the time what Kopitar was able to produce looks more impressive. And Kopitar was always better defensively

 

[GettingYourMoms]

If i build my team from the scratch i am picking Kopitar and it is not even particulary close.

 

[Felidae]

Again, if offense is the one and only thing that factors into peak, Kane has an argument. I don't view a hockey player that way.

Sure.. but then I guess the question for everyone would be, at what point does a players offense become too significant for any two way play to overcome in player to player comparisons?

I guess their GA and GF would tell part of the story, but linemates and deployment still contribute heavily to those stats.

 

[Sol]

Kane peak, Prime Kopitar.

Maybe I think if we compare careers then Kopitar takes this. Elite center for an eternity while being a defensive stalwart. Hasn’t slowed down yet.

Reading some of these posts gassing up their production… do people not realize how much of a contrast there was in the the teams approach in tactics? Kings for an eternity were volume shooting team and extremely defensive to a point everyone hated to watch the Kings play while the Hawks tactics were to be extremely dynamic offensively.

 

[Rorschach]

I don't think the two players can be compared. It's like comparing a Veryon with a A-10 Warthog.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think the two players can be compared. It's like comparing a Veryon with a A-10 Warthog.

I've heard him called a raccoon, a zombie, and Frankenberry, but never a warthog!