In Lemieux's biography "Mario" by Lawrence Martin, he discusses Lemieux declining to play for the 1984 WJC team because (1) Mario wanted the extra 4 or 5 games to break the goals and points records in the QMJHL (which he did in his last game of the season) and (2) he had a terrible experience under Dave King at the 1983 WJC in Cold War Prague. Lemieux didn't like Central European food (he was sheltered growing up and only lived off of his mom's burgers and fries), the beds were a foot too short for 6'4" Mario, the shower water was rust-coloured, he didn't appreciate Prague's architecture or history (again, very sheltered), and King benched him because he didn't think Mario played hard enough on the defensive end.
Anti-French bias in the Canadian Junior National team?
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MXD
Partying Hard
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Bergeron played Top-6 minutes for a full season for a very good team prior to making the team. I'd say that this one doesn't quite belong with the rest, or that Bergeron NOT making that team would've been clear cut evidence of bias. Bergeron making it proves absolutely nothing.
To be honest, I don't think there's much (or any) bias against French Canadians that isn't otherwise explained by coaches opting for players they know (which is issue if French Canadians head coaches aren't as frequently chosen to the lead Team Canada, and they aren't).
But there's probably, and has been, some bias against the Q.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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To be fair though, both Mario and Patrick grew up in a Quebec that was coming out of the Quiet Revolution and there was a certain percentage of people who always complained of Anglo bias (which existed to be sure but it's hard to quantify).
Also the "threat of separation" is something both guys grew up with as well so it was part of Quebec culture in some limited sense to always complain about stuff like this. much like in Vancouver alot of people still complain about Toronto centric bias, which is ironic because outside of Vancouver people in BC treat Vancouverites much like how Vancouverites complain about people in Toronto.
Maybe it's a Canadian thing eh?
MXD
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The Tampa Bay Lightning are such an obvious, easy-to-spot trend, with three players in their Top-9 coming from Q after being drafted much later than they should've been (or even drafted at all). One of them even won the Art Ross, something only two non-first rounders did since 1980 (and also the first drafted off the CHL!).
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One team does not make a trend, especially when that team destroys every other team in other leagues, too. They've stolen even more from the WHL in Braydon Point and Tyler Johnson.
Also listing Gourde as a guy who was 'drafted later than he should have been' is a bit iffy given that he was a minor-league journeyman who figured something out when he was 25. He was 5'9 and scored 28 points in his draft year - that isn't getting drafted from any league.
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
MXD
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That's funny considering he would have a GAA of 4.44 that year (his lowest in the QMJHL).
Obviously different circumstances and all, but still.
Big Phil
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Let's face it, there is a history of this in the NHL, back especially in the Richard days. Baseball had the colour barrier issues, but in the NHL it was the French-English rivalry that was still very real. Did Richard lose out on the scoring title because of a couple of phantom assists given to the other players? Who knows, but there was definitely that bias at different times.
Now, my thought in recent years is this, Hockey Canada has screwed up on a lot of teams, in fact even when they win I rarely think they won because the best team was picked, but in spite of it. That being said it has gotten too political for my liking in that they almost say: "Okay, we need a french guy here, an Ontario guy here and a western guy here..............." to the point where it isn't always balanced all of the time. The QMJHL is stepping up a lot better now, but for several years they were clearly the worst of the three leagues producing the least amount of talent. So I think the teams have been picked with almost TOO much political correctness so to say, almost as if they are overcorrecting themselves so that no one feels left out. That's not right either.
But the honest truth about Lemieux is that maybe he had a sour experience in 1983 but his goal was to beat Lafleur's goal record.
There is the odd time when I wonder about Patrick Roy. Maybe he deserves to be in the 1987 Canada Cup over Kelly Hrudey, but either way it was Fuhr playing all the minutes regardless.
Now, my thought in recent years is this, Hockey Canada has screwed up on a lot of teams, in fact even when they win I rarely think they won because the best team was picked, but in spite of it. That being said it has gotten too political for my liking in that they almost say: "Okay, we need a french guy here, an Ontario guy here and a western guy here..............." to the point where it isn't always balanced all of the time. The QMJHL is stepping up a lot better now, but for several years they were clearly the worst of the three leagues producing the least amount of talent. So I think the teams have been picked with almost TOO much political correctness so to say, almost as if they are overcorrecting themselves so that no one feels left out. That's not right either.
But the honest truth about Lemieux is that maybe he had a sour experience in 1983 but his goal was to beat Lafleur's goal record.
There is the odd time when I wonder about Patrick Roy. Maybe he deserves to be in the 1987 Canada Cup over Kelly Hrudey, but either way it was Fuhr playing all the minutes regardless.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
He was referencing an intrasquad game in which one of the goaltenders let in 6 goals, while the others allowed 0-3.
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
From the WHL:
Parker AuCoin
Patrick Bajkov
Jordy Bellerive
Parker Bowles
Cam Braes
Brayden Burke
Chad Butcher
Trevor Cox
Macoy Erkamps
Justin Feser
Todd Fiddler
Alex Forsberg
Jason Fram
Reid Gardiner
Reid Gow
Jayden Halbgewachs
Wacey Hamilton
Mitch Holmberg
Adam Hughesman
Dryden Hunt
Ty Lewis
Jonathan Martin
Justin Maylan
Tim McGauley
Brennan Menell
Luke Philp
Steven Owre
Jonathan Parker
Mark Rassell
Tyler Sandhu
Cole Sanford
Lane Scheidl
Brendan Shiniminn
Cody Sylvester
Curtis Valk
Shane Wiebe
Josh Winquist
Chase Witala
Tyler Wong
Dylan Wruck
Zab Zbrosky
This isn't all of them, just the ones that finished top 10 in points, goals or assists.
MXD
Partying Hard
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I think I've really badly worded my question as I was looking for undrafted players who scored 60+ points in the NHL!!
Voight
#winning
I believe all of this.
& I have heard the story before of his sheltered upbringing, they were a very traditional family who did not go out to eat much nor try anything out of the ordinary.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
I don't know if the bias is still there, but it is still perceived to be there by players.
My parents live in Victoriaville and when I used to go out, I saw Tigres players in bars all the time. I ran into Danault just after he was cut from Team Canada (first time he went to camp, second he made the team). Danault is a great guy and easily approachable, so I went to him, shook his hand and said I was a big fan and sorry he was cut from Team Canada. Told him I thought his game was mature enough for team Canada and I thought they made a mistake. He said "Thank you, they chose some English guy instead".
He did not say it with anger or hate towards the player, he said it as if "meh, it happens all the time".
So, I would not say there is bias, but I would argue that players, at least some, perceive a bias. Are they making excuses? Maybe, but the feeling is still there.
My parents live in Victoriaville and when I used to go out, I saw Tigres players in bars all the time. I ran into Danault just after he was cut from Team Canada (first time he went to camp, second he made the team). Danault is a great guy and easily approachable, so I went to him, shook his hand and said I was a big fan and sorry he was cut from Team Canada. Told him I thought his game was mature enough for team Canada and I thought they made a mistake. He said "Thank you, they chose some English guy instead".
He did not say it with anger or hate towards the player, he said it as if "meh, it happens all the time".
So, I would not say there is bias, but I would argue that players, at least some, perceive a bias. Are they making excuses? Maybe, but the feeling is still there.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Comes down to perspective. There is also some back story to why Mario did not play in more World Jr games and it has more to do with French politics than anything else(reportedly the Q said if they wanted Mario they had to take a couple of other guys as well)
While the Q is good at teaching scoring and fighting, over all they have a bad rep when it comes to teaching other aspects of the game. While they have gotten better over the past few years. IN the 80's and 90's the Q had bad rep when players played out of the Q and being able to play the full ice. Like I said the Q has gotten better because they worked on actually playing the full game and not just scoring and fighting.
There is a great doc on youtube from the 80's that shows the mentality of not just Q teams but the fans. If I can find it, I will post it.
BTW--no matter how the world juniors gets put together you will always have people pissed that "their" guy did not make the team
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There are obviously very few.
And if Gourde had scored 90 points in his draft year and then been passed over, this would support your argument that there is a bias against Q players.
But he didn’t. He was a 5’9 guy who scored 28 points in his draft year. Nobody performing at that level in the WHL or OHL gets drafted either.
