Anti-French bias in the Canadian Junior National team?

[alko]

Have heard that Mario Lemieux didnt want to play for Canada on the WJC also because of some Anti-French atmosphere.

Here is something about that:

Every December, just before the World Junior hockey Championships, Canada’s hockey decision-makers pick the country’s Junior Team Canada, and every December Quebec hockey players are told that they just don’t make muster. Canada’s hockey brass even managed to keep the great Mario Lemieux off that team when he was still a junior in the Quebec hockey league. It was said that Mario Lemieux was unable to adapt to the Canadian hockey style.

So, Canadian friends, how is it?

Click to read more...

 

[Phil Parent]

Lemieux didn't bother teaching his kids the language, so...

 

[Eisen]

Have heard that Mario Lemieux didnt want to play for Canada on the WJC also because of some Anti-French atmosphere.

Here is something about that:

Every December, just before the World Junior hockey Championships, Canada’s hockey decision-makers pick the country’s Junior Team Canada, and every December Quebec hockey players are told that they just don’t make muster. Canada’s hockey brass even managed to keep the great Mario Lemieux off that team when he was still a junior in the Quebec hockey league. It was said that Mario Lemieux was unable to adapt to the Canadian hockey style.

So, Canadian friends, how is it?

Didn't Lemieux skip the WJC to set junior records? Or am I misremembering that.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Have heard that Mario Lemieux didnt want to play for Canada on the WJC also because of some Anti-French atmosphere.

Here is something about that:

Every December, just before the World Junior hockey Championships, Canada’s hockey decision-makers pick the country’s Junior Team Canada, and every December Quebec hockey players are told that they just don’t make muster. Canada’s hockey brass even managed to keep the great Mario Lemieux off that team when he was still a junior in the Quebec hockey league. It was said that Mario Lemieux was unable to adapt to the Canadian hockey style.

So, Canadian friends, how is it?

You could provide the source so that we could judge its credibility.

 

[namttebih]

As far as the current team, our coach is French as well as the Captain two years ago so so doubt that there’s any bias.

 

[filip85]

Anti-French bias in Canada and NHL is well known and documented. Bob Sirois book is nice source.

 

[alko]

You could provide the source so that we could judge its credibility.

Please, focus to the word "Here".

 

[JackSlater]

That paragraph looks like crap. Lemieux was not cut from the 1984 WJC team, he declined. Lemieux was not offered a spot on the 1984 Olympic team, but it seems almost very likely that he would have declined had he been offered a spot anyway.

Le Grand Lemieux

Greatest Hockey Legends.com: Dave King Did Not Invite Mario Lemieux To 1984 Olympic Team

Équipe Canada junior: la discrimination, un mythe?

Mario Lemieux

Lemieux didn't like King or his 1983 exprience and wanted to set QMJHL records so he didn't go. King didn't do himself or Hockey Canada any favours but no one was cutting Lemieux from the 1984 WJC team. We don't know if Lemieux would have gotten along with Kilrea, but we do have plenty of instances of Lemieux not being inclined to play internationally until his comeback.

I don't know if French speaking players are really discriminated against in the Canadian world junior teams. I do think that QMJHL players in general have a harder time making the team in depth roles as the coaches prefer OHL and WHL players, but that's also true of NCAA players.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Patrick Roy said the same thing. He was cut in favor of three non-Francophone goaltenders. Ron Lapointe defended it as a butterfly thing: “The other three goalies didn’t do any better than he did, but they stay on their skates and are more in tune with the style of team we’re trying to build.”

Roy’s response was “I think I’ve just realized why Mario Lemieux didn’t want to have anything to do with Junior Team Canada last year... Why cut me instead of a guy from Ontario who let in 6 goals? We Francophones are at a disadvantage. I thought Ron Lapointe could hold his own, but on the other hand, he’s by himself and the further we went, the more we could see that the players from the West and from Ontario had an edge.”

 

[popo]

Probably depends on the coach for a bias. They select the teams. And the program has had coaches from all regions.
From a west perspective I remember there was the opposite sentiment in the year they took Mike Ribeiro over Mike Comrie.

 

[Voight]

That paragraph looks like crap. Lemieux was not cut from the 1984 WJC team, he declined. Lemieux was not offered a spot on the 1984 Olympic team, but it seems almost very likely that he would have declined had he been offered a spot anyway.

Le Grand Lemieux

Greatest Hockey Legends.com: Dave King Did Not Invite Mario Lemieux To 1984 Olympic Team

Équipe Canada junior: la discrimination, un mythe?

Mario Lemieux

Lemieux didn't like King and wanted to set QMJHL records so he didn't go. King didn't do himself any favours and was probably a bad choice to coach the team but no one was cutting Lemieux from the 1984 WJC team.

I don't know if French speaking players are really discriminated against in the Canadian world junior teams. I do think that QMJHL players in general have a harder time making the team in depth roles as the coaches prefer OHL and WHL players, but that's also true of NCAA players.

Thats because the QMJHL has historically been the weakest of the 3 CHL leagues.

As for Lemieuxs comments.... if there was a bias, maybe it had to do with the troubles that were caused in the 70s? I can imagine some of the old school coaches would hold the sovereignty stuff against them (not to get overly political).

 

[JackSlater]

Thats because the QMJHL has historically been the weakest of the 3 CHL leagues.

As for Lemieuxs comments.... if there was a bias, maybe it had to do with the troubles that were caused in the 70s? I can imagine some of the old school coaches would hold the sovereignty stuff against them (not to get overly political).

I know the reasons that get thrown around with regard to the QMJHL. The style of play is probably the bigger issue. Coaches don't want role players from the league that's viewed as offence only.

I don't know that a coach would need to look to the FLQ issue in order to find an issue with French speaking Canadians if they so desired, as English and French conflicts are pretty central to Canada's history. There really isn't any way to know what King thought in 1983. We do know that Lemieux was given good linemates in Yzerman and Andreychuk, that Lemieux often came across as temperamental when he was young, and that he wasn't particularly committed to defence. There is a long history of 16 or 17 year old Canadian junior stars getting less ice time that you'd think at the WJC with experience and defensive commitment often cited as the reasons. Since Canada started sending real national junior teams in 1982 Lindros is the only player younger than 18 who was the star of the team. Given the result of the tournament King should have used Lemieux more in 1983 but regardless the insinuation in the opening post that Lemieux wasn't wanted for the 1984 team is clearly wrong.

 

[MS]

I can’t speak for the mid-1980s, but from the 1990s onward the reverse is generally the case, where there are 1-2 very suspect QMJHL players on the squad most years in what is seemingly an attempt to provide more even representation.

 

[FerrisRox]

Have heard that Mario Lemieux didnt want to play for Canada on the WJC also because of some Anti-French atmosphere.

This is absolutely not true.

Lemieux didn't want to play for Dave King, who benched Lemieux previously for a lack of interest in defensive play.

Lemieux passed on the playing in the Juniors the next year and said he wanted to stay home to have one last Christmas with his family because he knew he'd be turning pro and away from home and he wanted to set records in Junior, something he couldn't do if he was on the WJ team.

Where did you get the idea that he passed on joining the team because of an "Anti-French atmosphere?"

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Patrick Roy said the same thing. He was cut in favor of three non-Francophone goaltenders. Ron Lapointe defended it as a butterfly thing: “The other three goalies didn’t do any better than he did, but they stay on their skates and are more in tune with the style of team we’re trying to build.”

Roy’s response was “I think I’ve just realized why Mario Lemieux didn’t want to have anything to do with Junior Team Canada last year... Why cut me instead of a guy from Ontario who let in 6 goals? We Francophones are at a disadvantage. I thought Ron Lapointe could hold his own, but on the other hand, he’s by himself and the further we went, the more we could see that the players from the West and from Ontario had an edge.”

do you have a link?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

of all the best francophone qmjhl players i can think of since 1982,

roy - didn't play but his brother did

lemieux - played

robitaille - played

sylvain cote - played, as did his brother

claude lemieux - played

richer - played

damphousse - didn't play, but he jumped right into the NHL from junior and only one underage player made the team in his draft year, joe murphy, who went first overall

both turgeons - played

daigneault - played

desjardins - played

gelinas - played

brodeur - didn't play, but felix potvin played on the team he would have been on

marty lapointe - played

brisebois - played

theodore - played

luongo - played

briere - played

MSL - didn't play but wasn't drafted either

lecavalier - played

gagne - played

tanguay - played

jp dumont - played

bergeron - played

vlasic - didn't play

burrows - didn't play

letang - played

giroux - played

PLD - played

not seeing anything here that suggests a bias

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I can’t speak for the mid-1980s, but from the 1990s onward the reverse is generally the case, where there are 1-2 very suspect QMJHL players on the squad most years in what is seemingly an attempt to provide more even representation.

i remember being a big fan of yannick dube and martin gendron. those little guys were awesome.

 

[MS]

i remember being a big fan of yannick dube and martin gendron. those little guys were awesome.

Oh, absolutely. But your WHL equivalent like a Todd Robinson wasn’t getting anywhere near that team.

The players representing the Q have been a consistently lower level of prospect, on average, than the WHL and OHL, as long as I’ve been following this tournament.

 

[Staniowski]

There was talk in Quebec at the time of the '83 WJC that there was an anti-French bias towards Lemieux. I'm not sure if Lemieux thought there was or not.

And, as mentioned, Patrick Roy apparently believed there was such a bias when he was cut from the '85 team.

Lemieux actually had to take the Q to court in '84, as the league said he couldn't play league games if he didn't show up to the Team Canada junior team. Lemieux won in court.

It's difficult to point to specific incidents unless you actually have sufficient knowledge of the situation.

But there is certainly lots of anti-French and anti-Quebec feelings in Canada. There has been historically, and still is today. Lots of it in the West, lots of it in ON, lots of it in NB, and elsewhere. It's decreased over time, though.

So, it is very likely that some people in the hockey world have had such biases.

 

[MXD]

Oh, absolutely. But your WHL equivalent like a Todd Robinson wasn’t getting anywhere near that team.

The players representing the Q have been a consistently lower level of prospect, on average, than the WHL and OHL, as long as I’ve been following this tournament.

And they were lower level prospects based on ...?

 

[MXD]

Coaches will trust the guy they know if they bring similar qualities. I personally think that's the main issue here.

 

[MS]

And they were lower level prospects based on ...?

Draft position?

 

[MadLuke]

not seeing anything here that suggests a bias

If there is bias you are more likely to see it has of equal or near equal talent you do not go for the french Canadian, it will not be high to the level of not taking a Turgeon's, same would go for an anti-Russian bias, you still take Ovechkin on your team if you have one.

 

[JackSlater]

of all the best francophone qmjhl players i can think of since 1982,

roy - didn't play but his brother did

lemieux - played

robitaille - played

sylvain cote - played, as did his brother

claude lemieux - played

richer - played

damphousse - didn't play, but he jumped right into the NHL from junior and only one underage player made the team in his draft year, joe murphy, who went first overall

both turgeons - played

daigneault - played

desjardins - played

gelinas - played

brodeur - didn't play, but felix potvin played on the team he would have been on

marty lapointe - played

brisebois - played

theodore - played

luongo - played

briere - played

MSL - didn't play but wasn't drafted either

lecavalier - played

gagne - played

tanguay - played

jp dumont - played

bergeron - played

vlasic - didn't play

burrows - didn't play

letang - played

giroux - played

PLD - played

not seeing anything here that suggests a bias

Vlasic had a very good chance of playing had he not made the NHL as a 19 year old.

 

[quoipourquoi]

do you have a link?

It was in the biography by Michel Roy.