Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024 season thread)

[Herby]

Dude, how many times and examples have to shoved in your face to show that a 'full rebuild' isn't the only way to win a Stanley Cup. Jesus Christ, do you ever get bored with this topic?

Oh, he's getting angry, so mad that somebody is discussing hockey on a hockey forum. Getting mad at being asked a simple question about his beloved Lucky saying something that contradicts his latest narrative to excuse the failures. The guy who spends his time here posting 1-sentence replies throwing insults at people is asking if I am bored talking about hockey?

Tell me the ones who have done it the Kings way?

Here are the cup winners that resulted from tear down rebuilds that allowed teams to draft star rosters.

Pittsburgh (3 cups)

Crosby (#1 2005)
Malkin (#2 2004)
Fleury (#1 2003)
Letang (#62 2005)

Chicago (3 cups)

Kane (#1 2007 )
Toews (#3 2006)
Keith (#54 2002)
Seabrooke (#14 2003)

Tampa (2 cups)

Hedman (#2 2009)
Stamkos (#1 2008)
Kucherov (#58 2011)
Vasilevsky (#19 2012)

Los Angeles (2 cups)

Doughty (#2 in 2008)
Kopitar (#11 in 2005)
Quick (#72 in 2005)
Brown (#13 in 2003)

Colorado (1 cup)

MacKinnon (#1 in 2014)
Makar (#4 in 2017)
Landeskog (#2 in 2011)
Rantanen (#10 in 2015)

The Kings could have done the Florida model and traded for the stars, like Florida did with Tkachuk and Reinart, but Blake chose not to pursue an MVP caliber 1C, remind me again what your stance on that was?

 

[Herby]

Would Thomas Chabot be a good target should we lose Gavrikov.

Would also like Noah Dobson but he may still be young enough for the Islanders rebuild.

Bringing up these types of guys as I can’t see LA rebuilding and I think we need more offense from top pairing.

Trade for one of these guys and sign Marner. Call it a day.

Ottawa is closer to contending than LA is, he is signed for three more years at $8m. I don't see them trading him.

Dobson is a bit tricker, since it would appear the Isles are just going to be entering the teardown stage and probably won't be out of it until he is close to or even beyond 30.

I'm not sure he's a 70 point guy, that was probably a career year, but he would immediately give the Kings by far their best defenseman, and an actual 1D.

I'm guessing Clarke would be going the other way, a long with a couple of other valuable assets.

 

[funky]

Ottawa is closer to contending than LA is, he is signed for three more years at $8m. I don't see them trading him.

Dobson is a bit tricker, since it would appear the Isles are just going to be entering the teardown stage and probably won't be out of it until he is close to or even beyond 30.

I'm not sure he's a 70 point guy, that was probably a career year, but he would immediately give the Kings by far their best defenseman, and an actual 1D.

I'm guessing Clarke would be going the other way, a long with a couple of other valuable assets.

I agree. Just reading the tea leaves if Holland’s coming in I can see Clarke and our first going for immediate help. Especially at the draft to make headlines.

The reason I mentioned Chabot is they still have Sanderson and thought they also had Chychrun as well, but just realized that he’s in Washington. Work is getting in the way of my hockey life.

The reason I like Dobson is it knocks Drew down to the second pairing

The reason I like Chabot is it would allow Drew to stay on first pairing, but relinquish the offensive load to Chabot. Nobody can convince me that Mikey Anderson should be at top pairing defenseman when he cannot move the puck and kills every offensive play as soon as the puck hits his stick.

In a perfect world, I would like to get a guy like Dobson while retaining Clarke then moving Drew. It’s time to get younger, more skilled, and give the kids more freedom and leeway. just cannot see that happening with this leadership group. Plus without using Clarke as an asset we wouldn’t have the ammo to do it

 

[BaileyFan]

Ottawa is closer to contending than LA is, he is signed for three more years at $8m. I don't see them trading him.

Dobson is a bit tricker, since it would appear the Isles are just going to be entering the teardown stage and probably won't be out of it until he is close to or even beyond 30.

I'm not sure he's a 70 point guy, that was probably a career year, but he would immediately give the Kings by far their best defenseman, and an actual 1D.

I'm guessing Clarke would be going the other way, a long with a couple of other valuable assets.

I’m on board with that. If Holland comes on then we’re probably 2-3 years out from even starting the rebuild and Clarke will be too old to be part of the next youth movement anyway. Having Dobson or a similar win-now player to get 8 and 11 to the fabled 2nd round of the playoffs is gonna be preferable to seeing Clarke/Spence/Greentree get scratched or subjected to the ELC slide again next year.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Oh, he's getting angry, so mad that somebody is discussing hockey on a hockey forum. Getting mad at being asked a simple question about his beloved Lucky saying something that contradicts his latest narrative to excuse the failures. The guy who spends his time here posting 1-sentence replies throwing insults at people is asking if I am bored talking about hockey?

Tell me the ones who have done it the Kings way?

Here are the cup winners that resulted from tear down rebuilds that allowed teams to draft star rosters.

Pittsburgh (3 cups)

Crosby (#1 2005)
Malkin (#2 2004)
Fleury (#1 2003)
Letang (#62 2005)

Chicago (3 cups)

Kane (#1 2007 )
Toews (#3 2006)
Keith (#54 2002)
Seabrooke (#14 2003)

Tampa (2 cups)

Hedman (#2 2009)
Stamkos (#1 2008)
Kucherov (#58 2011)
Vasilevsky (#19 2012)

Los Angeles (2 cups)

Doughty (#2 in 2008)
Kopitar (#11 in 2005)
Quick (#72 in 2005)
Brown (#13 in 2003)

Colorado (1 cup)

MacKinnon (#1 in 2014)
Makar (#4 in 2017)
Landeskog (#2 in 2011)
Rantanen (#10 in 2015)

The Kings could have done the Florida model and traded for the stars, like Florida did with Tkachuk and Reinart, but Blake chose not to pursue an MVP caliber 1C, remind me again what your stance on that was?

I’m not reading all of that.

 

[Sol]

The most dangerous thing in hockey is loyalty. It rarely helps and can only hurt for the most part.

Holding onto Richards killed the Kings. And now they held onto Kopitar and Doughty, for what exactly?

You should only be paid for what you're worth and maybe even a tinge of what you've done. But the Kings have been absolutely raked over the coals for these two who took leadership of the void. For what exactly? we have one of the most abysmal rebuilds and two dead stars at the helm. what was the benefit of any of this?

The way the Knights run their organization is truly impressive. No loyalty, if you dont perform, you're out. That's how it should be. It's a business, not a charity.

 

[funky]

I’m on board with that. If Holland comes on then we’re probably 2-3 years out from even starting the rebuild and Clarke will be too old to be part of the next youth movement anyway. Having Dobson or a similar win-now player to get 8 and 11 to the fabled 2nd round of the playoffs is gonna be preferable to seeing Clarke/Spence/Greentree get scratched or subjected to the ELC slide again next year.

I know Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but is Clarke's value high enough to be the centerpiece in a trade for Dobson. Clarke and a late 1st seems a bit light.

Plus I am having PLD flashbacks. PLD was suppose to be the polished Vilardi, bigger, stronger better, only a bit older. This could totally turn out the same way with Clarke being better then Dobson alone.

Of course Clarke could also be the next Durzi as well.

If ownership is really going for it for 11 and 8 and trading off the youth, a Dobson (25years old) type would probably be our best case scenario verses say a Erik Karlsson type. Signing Dobson 8 years gives us majority of his prime and into his early 30's before the falloff starts.

 

[King'sPawn]

A rebuild should never end until you have multiple locked in star players. The Kings rebuild ended in 2009 when it was apparent they had 2 for sure, and one that was likely to get there (and did)

2005
One rebuild produced Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, Simmonds*, Schenn*, Johnson*, Voynov, Lewis, Moller

Another one produced Byfield, Clarke, Vilardi*, Anderson, JAD*, Turcotte, Kaliyev* Spence, Helenius, Thomas, Kupari

But ya, looks totally the same, how could Blake have known in 2021 he wasn't going to have enough in the system?

HOW COULD HE HAVE KNOWN?

Just my opinion, and I'm sure we'll have discussion of semantics along the way, but these are my definitions:
- re-tool: moving big pieces but keeping the same core (which is what Blake did)

- rebuild: accumulating picks and prospects to take over the identity of the team, so you can ultimately build around them (Lombardi did this with Brown, Kopitar, and Quick, even if he didn't draft them. They were young pieces set to be the identity)

- building: supplementing the young core with low-cost vets (Scott Thornton, Trent Klatt, etc)

- status quo: moving pieces of any value to fill in team gaps where needed (Blake moving PLD for Kuemper, trading a third for Kuzmenko, etc). This also includes promoting your own prospects to fill the gaps (like Laferriere).

- go for it: spending a high pick+prospects on an older player with the expectation of some level of playoff success within three years of the trade (Faber+ for Fiala, Schenn+Simmonds for Richards, Johnson+ for Carter, Vilardi+ for PLD)

- tear down: selling anything of value so you can get as many potential picks as possible. Note: I do not subscribe to this approach, but it's a phase that can happen in team construction (Buffalo's a big culprit here). Note a team like Pittsburgh even kept Lemieux+Palffy during Crosby and Malkin's formative years.

Blake didn't give his picks time to take over the identity. And we heard Luc say that stuff like that is determined by what you do on the ice... but we see how they put young players out there in reduced roles so they don't really have as much of an impact, so that opportunity never comes.

So, to me, the team is just settled in going for it and retooling on the fly until Kopitar and Doughty age out. If youth steps up, great, but if not, let's just make sure we can pretend the pieces we get while going for it will form a new core.

Ideally, not all your players are locked down in a rebuild, as far as contracts are concerned. Hopefully you have a premier star playing either during his ELC or his second/bridge contract.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I’m not reading all of that.

This is wildly disrespectful.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Jesse, please tell Zach that none of Lee, Thomas, or Malott are even comparable to Tanner Jeannot.

The Oilers bullied the Kings for the 4th year in the row mainly because they have Nurse, Perry, Kane, and Frederic and the Kings didn't have a healthy Jeannot. You can't put the entire team toughness on a 22 year old Samuel Helenius playing under minutes a night. Tanner has a reputation and is an intimidating player. Malott is not a fighter - he barely hung in there with a non fighter in Brandon Carlo. He is a skilled player who had to learn to fight.

The Kings need to get more skilled and tougher and losing Jeannot hurts the latter.

If the Kings lose Jeannot, I would sign someone like Frederic.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Jesse, please tell Zach that none of Lee, Thomas, or Malott are even comparable to Tanner Jeannot.

I don't remember the specifics of the conversation but i"m reasonably certain that wasn't the point that was being made...

 

[Johnny Utah]

I don't remember the specifics of the conversation but i"m reasonably certain that wasn't the point that was being made...

I'm listening now to the latest pod and he basically said he would welcome Jeannot back BUT that a 4th line of any combination of Lee, Thomas, Helenius, Turcotte, and Malott would suffice and they make combined what Jeanott makes in money.

Helenius is my fav Kings player, but he is 22 years old - and he needs a wingman - he had Doty in Ontario and Jeannot in LA. The Kings someone to play that role - and Jeannot is that player. He proved it this year while leading the team in hits, standing up for his teammates and being a great teammate.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A potential new #1 center for the Kings. A rusty old player who doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

A potential new #1 center for the Kings. A rusty old player who doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

He'll go to the Ducks to play with Q.

 

[King'sPawn]

A potential new #1 center for the Kings. A rusty old player who doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

Ducks can sign him, reunite him with Quenneville, and continue bringing in sexual assault enablers.

 

[Bandit]

Bye! Take Hiller and Doodoo Brown with you.

 

[Piston]

Ken Holland is my choice to lead the franchise. The idea of him having to report to Luc makes me puke. It's probably enough for him to think twice about taking the job. He should be put in a position like Rutherford in Vancouver and Gorton in Montreal.

Meanwhile, Florida is slowly grinding down Toronto. Johnny Utah is right, team toughness can take on and even beat superior skill.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Florida is playing both Greer and Gadjovich.

 

[funky]

A potential new #1 center for the Kings. A rusty old player who doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he hooked up with coach Q in Anaheim. Zegras would last three shifts before Toews chewed him a new one.

 

[Nasti]

In what fantasy world does that ever happen? I mean seriously, can we just start talking as if we live in reality?

This team had a 105 points last year, they aren't trading away their best player. FFS

Florida traded 100 point scorer Huberdeau and became an instant contender. No one but you cares about the regular season.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Florida traded 100 point scorer Huberdeau and became an instant contender. No one but you cares about the regular season.

When we can get out of the first round, you can start comparing Kempe to Huberdeau, lol.

 

[Nasti]

When we can get out of the first round, you can start comparing Kempe to Huberdeau, lol.

So what are you saying? Get out of the first round before making bold moves even though it’s the lack of bold moves that is keeping us from advancing past the first round? Yes, I’m sure adding a couple of grinders and journeymen defensemen is all we need to win four rounds.

By the way, the Panthers also won the Presidents Trophy that year and still traded a 100 point scorer.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

By the way, the Panthers also won the Presidents Trophy that year and still traded a 100 point scorer.

I'm sorry, what point are you trying to make? That FLA traded a 100-point scorer (Huberdeau)......for a 100-point scorer (Tkachuk)?

Bold move!

 

[Kudelski37]

The Kings need to trade Kopitar and Doughty if they want to contend this coming season. Their presence prevents the team from filling out the roster as needed to contend in the playoffs.

 

[Schrute farms]

The Kings need to trade Kopitar and Doughty if they want to contend this coming season. Their presence prevents the team from filling out the roster as needed to contend in the playoffs.

You are about 4-7 years too late.
Serious or not, i'm not sure why anyone mentions Kopi as a trade. It's NEVER going to happen.
Same with Drew in that it is not happening -- unless it is Drew that wants to leave and forces their hands to trade him.