Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[KopitarGOAT420]

The Kings drafted a pure sniper 33rd overall then proceeded to ruin him through a series of development decisions (Or really, 1 development decision in particular). Let's go through it...

D+1 year: Kaliyev plays in the OHL and seemingly takes a modest step forward. Puts up 44 goals and 98 points in 57 games (4 less points than his draft year, but in 10 less games). Also plays in the world juniors and puts up 4 goals and 6 points in 5 games.

D+2 year: Kaliyev spends most of the year in the AHL where he puts up very respectable numbers for a 19 year old 1st year professional. 14 goals and 31 points in 40 AHL games. Plays in the world juniors again and this time puts up 3 goals and 8 points in 7 games while helping Team USA to win gold. Kaliyev also appears in 1 NHL game this season and pots 1 goal in that game.

D+3 year: This is where things REALLY went wrong. Kaliyev had been progressing pretty nicely. He showed he could play solid hockey in the AHL, was a key player for Team USA winning gold at the world juniors, and probably had the best shot in the organization at this time. In hindsight, it's clear Kaliyev should've spent another year in the AHL during his D+3 season. He would've been able to continue working on the defensive details of the game while building his confidence offensively. In the AHL he would've been utilized in a top 6 role and likely would've seen 1st unit powerplay time. Instead, the Kings proceeded to play Kaliyev in 80 NHL games on the 4th line where he averaged just 12 mins 39 secs of ice time per game playing mostly with Lizotte as his center. This is when the Kings began forcing Kaliyev into a role he was never drafted to be in. You don't draft a pure sniper 33rd overall to play him for 12 mins a night on your 4th line. So why did that end up being EXACTLY what the Kings did to Kaliyev in his D+3 season???

D+4 year: Kaliyev is again largely limited to 4th line minutes/responsibilities. Puts up half decent totals - 13 goals and 28 points in 56 games. Looks a bit better defensively but still has some issues.

D+5 year: Many (myself included at the time) are predicting a Kaliyev breakout this season. "This has to be the year they finally place him in a top 9 scoring role, right?" Many of us say. Kaliyev gets off to a pretty decent start but then starts to struggle as the Fiala/Dubois fiasco causes the Kings to move the lines around. Ultimately, Kaliyev ends up back on the 4th line where he starts to struggle. Then the Kings sour on him and the rest is history.

When you look back at it, it's really that D+3 year that sticks out as the TERRIBLE development mistake. WHY draft a pure sniper just to throw him on your 4th line with grinders as a 21 year old?? You KNEW this was a player with defensive deficiencies yet you rush him to the NHL and then act like the guy's a failure for not playing a 4th line checking role to perfection?

This wouldn't be too bad if Kaliyev was the only player the Kings made these kinds of mistakes with. But he's not. Bjornfot is another player they RUSHED to the NHL then failed to develop in any way/shape/form. Turcotte rushed from college to pro hockey which was likely a significant mistake in his development. These mistakes start to add up and can have massive implications down the road. Hopefully the Rangers put Kaliyev in a position to be successful because the Kings sure as hell didn't.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think by the time Hiller took the reins the damage was done.

For being supposedly a good teaching coach and players guy McLellan sure loved motherf***ing the kids.

 

[Omni Owl]

First I've heard about Arthur being on the autism spectrum, I've always wondered which players in the league were on the ASD. That's gotta make it super tough to play in such a public setting and deal with media with interviews and the like. I hope he's able to stay in NY's lineup and find a role on their team, they definitely need the f***ing help. Still think McLellan did him dirty and sabotaged his career here...

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

McLellan definitely didn't help but I certainly think more of the blame is on Rob Blake for the Kaliyev situation.

Everyone knew what Kaliyev was at the draft. A pure sniper with an insanely good shot but maybe not the best skater and a player with some defensive deficiencies. This profile is why he slipped to the 2nd round when the Kings snagged him.

The Kings knew exactly what they were getting themselves into when they drafted Kaliyev. Blake is the one who drafted a player that clearly didn't fit the system they wanted to play. Blake is also the one who put Kaliyev on the NHL roster to start his D+3 season when he clearly could've used more time in the AHL. And he's the one who sat on Kaliyev as an asset until his value completely diminished and we lost him for nothing.

A vast majority of the blame is on Blake here.

And sure, yeah the Kings are doing great and may not miss Kaliyev a ton but it's yet another mistake you can add to Blake's list.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Kings took Turcotte, Bjornfot, and Kaliyev at #5, 22, and 33 respectively in 2019.

Today, over half a decade later, Turcotte is top dog. Funny how this worked out.

Will be interesting to compare that year to 2003. That year saw DT take Brown, Boyle, and Tambellini in the first round at 13, 26, and 27. Plus there was Pushkarev at 44 in the second round.

 

[BigKing]

Just talking hypothetically as we have no idea but in of itself autism isn’t necessarily a barrier. There might need to be some understanding of the condition by an NHL team but it is certainly isn’t a major problem IMO. The Kings in general seem like they would be open to managing someone with the condition but that’s just a general perception based on the attitude to pastoral care.

ASD would probably likely produce a very high game IQ (special interest) plus a desire to perfect their game. There may be a tendency to be too hard on themselves but equally a desire to fit in, please. All generalisations obviously. Awkward with media would be likely, but much less so with familiar people.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head from personal experience. Sorry for going off at a tangent.

I've banged the drum on the potential autism spectrum being his biggest issue, and not an on-ice one.

Is he out with all the guys at the concert a bunch of them went to and out pictures up? Is he over at Trevor Moore's place in Manhattan Beach hanging with the guys?

Reminds me of a guy you'd work with, he's fine around the office but you aren't interested in ever hanging out with him outside of work and, even in the office, you'd prefer to not get cornered in a convo you couldn't get out of.

If you aren't producing and aren't a part of the group, you aren't brining much to the table.

We talk about the culture on this team being an issue. I love Kaliyev's game and hate how this turned out but who is in his spot now, Foegle? Even if he plateaus, that's a win for the locker room, the culture, and the style of play the Kings use.

 

[Herby]

Kings took Turcotte, Bjornfot, and Kaliyev at #5, 22, and 33 respectively in 2019.

Today, over half a decade later, Turcotte is top dog. Funny how this worked out.

Will be interesting to compare that year to 2003. That year saw DT take Brown, Boyle, and Tambellini in the first round at 13, 26, and 27. Plus there was Pushkarev at 44 in the second round.

If Turcotte ended up being as good as Brown, all would be forgiven with this draft (as Taylor's blunders in 2003 were).

But I think sometimes our fanbase understates just how good the core-four was, Brown especially gets criminally underrated by a lot of people.

This was shown on NBC right before Game 1 of that years finals, this was in 14 games vs the 3 top seeds in the Western Conf. He was a dominant player in that run.

 

[Surf Nutz]

He's this boards Kaliyev

Really Sean Avery?

 

[Lt Dan]

I've banged the drum on the potential autism spectrum being his biggest issue, and not an on-ice one.

Is he out with all the guys at the concert a bunch of them went to and out pictures up? Is he over at Trevor Moore's place in Manhattan Beach hanging with the guys?

Reminds me of a guy you'd work with, he's fine around the office but you aren't interested in ever hanging out with him outside of work and, even in the office, you'd prefer to not get cornered in a convo you couldn't get out of.

If you aren't producing and aren't a part of the group, you aren't brining much to the table.

We talk about the culture on this team being an issue. I love Kaliyev's game and hate how this turned out but who is in his spot now, Foegle? Even if he plateaus, that's a win for the locker room, the culture, and the style of play the Kings use.

I am pretty sure you are right on about kaliyev being on the spectrum. It explains a lot

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If Turcotte ended up being as good as Brown, all would be forgiven with this draft (as Taylor's blunders in 2003 were).

But I think sometimes our fanbase understates just how good the core-four was, Brown especially gets criminally underrated by a lot of people.

This was shown on NBC right before Game 1 of that years finals, this was in 14 games vs the 3 top seeds in the Western Conf. He was a dominant player in that run.

View attachment 957409

Will never forgive Mike Smith for the chop that stopped his run.

Brown wasn't the same for at least a year and a half after that, arguably ever.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

a better example would be a baseball analogy.
A hitter that was doing amazingly well until the league figured out how to pitch to him. Mett James Outman. Known for his power and even better haircut, James looked like the next great MLB power hitter

View attachment 957072

View attachment 957071


In both cases a "hole" was found and it's been exploited and the player hasn't been able to recover.

I'm not gonna go too deep into analogy land but the dodgers had a serviceable replacement in andy pages waiting in the wings. What have the kings done with kaliyev's spot/role? The PP sucks ass

 

[AbsentMojo]

Will never forgive Mike Smith for the chop that stopped his run.

Brown wasn't the same for at least a year and a half after that, arguably ever.

Wait thats not how he tore his PCL is it? I thought that was from something else

 

[Surf Nutz]

I am pretty sure you are right on about kaliyev being on the spectrum. It explains a lot

Thank you from the originator of that.

NHL too high pres. for it, at least early on.

He could triumph eventually.

And what a story that would be.

 

[Lt Dan]

I'm not gonna go too deep into analogy land but the dodgers had a serviceable replacement in andy pages waiting in the wings. What have the kings done with kaliyev's spot/role? The PP sucks ass

Laferriere

 

[Surf Nutz]

Will never forgive Mike Smith for the chop that stopped his run.

Brown wasn't the same for at least a year and a half after that, arguably ever.

 

[King'sPawn]

Exclusive: Lombardi and Others Reflect on Trevor Lewis Playing 1000 NHL Games

mayorsmanor.com

I know there are a lot of misgivings about Hoven and Lewis, so maybe this will double annoy some of you. But there are some good interview pieces about Lewis, making 1000 games, and why he's respected in the org. Includes quotes from Stothers, Lombardi, and Mark Morris.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Exclusive: Lombardi and Others Reflect on Trevor Lewis Playing 1000 NHL Games

mayorsmanor.com

I know there are a lot of misgivings about Hoven and Lewis, so maybe this will double annoy some of you. But there are some good interview pieces about Lewis, making 1000 games, and why he's respected in the org. Includes quotes from Stothers, Lombardi, and Mark Morris.

This quote really stands out:

"He’ll likely finish his career sitting seventh on the list of most games played in a Kings uniform. Only names like Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Taylor, Robitaille, and Dionne have suited up more times for the franchise."

My favorite Lewis moment: him running interference for Martinez to help create the breakout that led to A-Mart scoring the cup winning goal. Sort of an apt metaphor.

 

[Statto]

I've banged the drum on the potential autism spectrum being his biggest issue, and not an on-ice one.

Is he out with all the guys at the concert a bunch of them went to and out pictures up? Is he over at Trevor Moore's place in Manhattan Beach hanging with the guys?

Reminds me of a guy you'd work with, he's fine around the office but you aren't interested in ever hanging out with him outside of work and, even in the office, you'd prefer to not get cornered in a convo you couldn't get out of.

If you aren't producing and aren't a part of the group, you aren't brining much to the table.

We talk about the culture on this team being an issue. I love Kaliyev's game and hate how this turned out but who is in his spot now, Foegle? Even if he plateaus, that's a win for the locker room, the culture, and the style of play the Kings use.

I have ASD, my kids both have ASD. We all like being social, love a concert etc. Two of us find social situations with strangers stressful but once we know people it’s fairly easy. I was the unofficial social secretary in the IT group, but IT wasn’t my ‘special interest’ (hockey is) so I’m not all that nerdy. There are a lot of invalid and over stated stereotypes about ASD and a hell of a lot of misunderstandings.

Yes some have challenges in that area but if they were major I think it’d be blocking hockey development before someone even hit junior. Again, all just opinion.

 

[Statto]

I have ASD, my kids both have ASD. We all like being social, love a concert etc. Two of us find social situations with strangers stressful but once we know people it’s fairly easy. I was the unofficial social secretary in the IT group, but IT wasn’t my ‘special interest’ (hockey is) so I’m not all that nerdy. There are a lot of invalid and over stated stereotypes about ASD and a hell of a lot of misunderstandings.

Yes some have challenges in that area but if they were major I think it’d be blocking hockey development before someone even hit junior. Again, all just opinion.

Just to add further.. where it may be a challenge is ambiguous instructions. So for evxample, “play good D” might cause someone with ASD to seriously over think things. So instructions might need to be broken down into more detail than for someone neurotypical.

So I will often spend hours over thinking something that is simple on the face of it, because I will work through every single scenario. It was a good trait when diagnosing an IT issue but not so good in other situations. It has certainly contributed to insomnia at times. So right now I know I’m currently over thinking this issue as ASD is a ‘special interest’ for me, but I have learned to be self aware of my traits so I know I’m doing it

 

[Bandit]

Its simple. It has little to do with his on-ice ability.

Kaliyev quit on the Kings. He quit on his teammates last year. The coach and GM told us. He did nothing to help the team, and that doesn't just mean scoring goals.

There is more to hockey than numbers, and there has been a lot of speculation about Kaliyev since his draft year. He doesn't earn the benefit of doubts. We will likely never know why he struggles to adapt, but we know that he does. That is apparently more than enough to decide it's no longer worth waiting.

The Kings quit on Kaliyev three years ago so… you get out of it what you put into it.

Also Edmundson is injured? Who could have guessed that would happen?

 

[BringTheReign]

Just to add further.. where it may be a challenge is ambiguous instructions. So for evxample, “play good D” might cause someone with ASD to seriously over think things. So instructions might need to be broken down into more detail than for someone neurotypical.

So I will often spend hours over thinking something that is simple on the face of it, because I will work through every single scenario. It was a good trait when diagnosing an IT issue but not so good in other situations. It has certainly contributed to insomnia at times. So right now I know I’m currently over thinking this issue as ASD is a ‘special interest’ for me, but I have learned to be self aware of my traits so I know I’m doing it

Thanks for sharing your experience; this is something I've seen at work and even in coaching experiences I've had, but I've never heard some put it into words as well as you did.

 

[Bandit]

This quote really stands out:

"He’ll likely finish his career sitting seventh on the list of most games played in a Kings uniform. Only names like Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Taylor, Robitaille, and Dionne have suited up more times for the franchise."

My favorite Lewis moment: him running interference for Martinez to help create the breakout that led to A-Mart scoring the cup winning goal. Sort of an apt metaphor.

“When we got him in our development program, and this is where those guys are so important,” explained Lombardi. “They’re the most underrated people in any organization”

Meanwhile development in 2024…

My favorite Lewis moment was him chasing Hamhuis down from behind and turning it over to Stoll for the OT winner against Vancouver in 2012. Summed him up perfectly and help propel the Kings to two cups in three years.

As much as I’m done with 2024 Lewis, he was absolutely crucial to this franchise’s greatest successes.

 

[Schmooley]

“When we got him in our development program, and this is where those guys are so important,” explained Lombardi. “They’re the most underrated people in any organization”

Meanwhile development in 2024…

My favorite Lewis moment was him chasing Hamhuis down from behind and turning it over to Stoll for the OT winner against Vancouver in 2012. Summed him up perfectly and help propel the Kings to two cups in three years.

As much as I’m done with 2024 Lewis, he was absolutely crucial to this franchise’s greatest successes.

Yea he was great in the cup runs. He was fine last year. This year hes even fine on the 4th line and some pk duty. Hiller just leans on him too much situationally like hes the 2012 Lewis.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Blake's managed 6 playoff wins since he took over. It's time for a GM with a plan.

At least it will be exciting to see what he comes up with this deadline.

Oilers might have lost enough last summer for the King's to sneak by!!!!

 

[bland]

The Kings quit on Kaliyev three years ago so… you get out of it what you put into it.

Also Edmundson is injured? Who could have guessed that would happen?

Did the Kings quit on Kaliyev, or did he consistently fail to respond to the coaching he needed in order to make the changes required to become a NHL player?

I saw a guy who was allergic to the corners and would consistently float to the top of the circles and let his teammates do the dirty work to set him up for the same shot every time. He would get scratched, come back in, battle hard and do exactly what they wanted for his first shift then slide right back into the same type of game they needed him to change.

Kaliyev never progressed. Folks complain about him being miscast as a 4th liner, which would be true if he were a fully developed offensive threat stuck in a bad situation - but it was clear as day that they were trying to get this kid to get more involved in the other 99% of things he needed to do but wasn't. This is a player with an NHL ability without NHL competitiveness. He never changed.