Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[KopitarGOAT420]

I would be VERY hesitant to trade Spence unless it's part of a package for a true 1st line/pair player.

This guy is still only 23 years old and already has 130 NHL games under his belt. The point totals don't necessarily jump out to you but this is a very good/useful/effective young defenseman who could absolutely still improve over the next season or two.

Kings have traded so many RHD that end up being great on other teams. Let's not repeat the same mistake with Spence.

 

[Schmooley]

If gav gets resigned Spence is moveable when dd gets back. Anderson-gav, movare-dd, Edmundsom- Clarke. That said only would move him for an overpay like tuch

How about in a deal for Byram? Byram and Doughty would make a good pair if you want to keep Anderson and Gavrikov together.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Moore has yet to figure out how to transfer his game to the post season, and although I do agree that he is worth what he is paid, that value all but disappears come playoff time.

He doesn’t move the needle forward when it counts, and would be coveted by other teams. It’s an easy move to make in a vacuum.

Same logic that was applied to Lizotte can be applied to Moore

 

[AbsentMojo]

I know at this moment in time, a lot wont think this graph is accurate in regards to the Kings, but I still think its correct. Unless you want to play games with DD LTIR, this team is not going do a damn thing... even with that extra cap, I dont think they can make a big enough impact.

Original article.. scroll down to find the detaied analysis of LAK

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5815613/2024/10/10/nhl-contention-cycle-player-tiers/

 

[Herby]

If that really is the 'problem', then the root of the problem is ownership for keeping those guys on.

The Kings likely have absentee ownership, which isn't always an awful thing (see Jones, Jerry) but it sure seems like Robitaille has been given free reign to do as he sees fit and the only time things will be up for evaluation is when the GM's contract is up and they evaluate the entire process. With Blake's poor results on the ice since taking over, and his crazy financial mistakes it's hard to imagine an ownership group that was more hands on would not have made a move.

Turcotte is better than his trade value. That's the problem with moving him. But I can understand if you think he's going to get injured again.

The contract makes it really tough to trade him, because the value is incredible. I get why him and Brisson went this path, but if he were an RFA this summer he would probably get 3-4x what he will make the next two seasons.

I would be VERY hesitant to trade Spence unless it's part of a package for a true 1st line/pair player.

This guy is still only 23 years old and already has 130 NHL games under his belt. The point totals don't necessarily jump out to you but this is a very good/useful/effective young defenseman who could absolutely still improve over the next season or two.

Kings have traded so many RHD that end up being great on other teams. Let's not repeat the same mistake with Spence.

Nobody is giving a first line player for Spence. He's a very solid third pairing defender, and a feather in the cap for the Kings in evaluation and development, but he just doesn't have the type of ceiling where he returns a significant asset to the Kings.

I hope the Kings don't trade him though, he's a good player with a good cap hit.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Nobody is giving a first line player for Spence. He's a very solid third pairing defender, and a feather in the cap for the Kings in evaluation and development, but he just doesn't have the type of ceiling where he returns a significant asset to the Kings.

I hope the Kings don't trade him though, he's a good player with a good cap hit.

Oh I wasn't suggesting Spence alone could return a 1st line/pair player - I was just saying I wouldn't trade Spence unless it was necessary to include him in a package for a 1st line/pair player.

It would definitely take Spence ++++ to return a true difference maker.

 

[SundherDome]

Jack Quinn.

Tuch also fits what we need.

What would be added to Spence if Peterka was dangled.

 

[Kurrilino]

I know at this moment in time, a lot wont think this graph is accurate in regards to the Kings, but I still think its correct. Unless you want to play games with DD LTIR, this team is not going do a damn thing... even with that extra cap, I dont think they can make a big enough impact.

View attachment 946743

Original article.. scroll down to find the detaied analysis of LAK

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5815613/2024/10/10/nhl-contention-cycle-player-tiers/

This is exactly how it is.
The window was closing in 2019.
At this point a rebuild was due but never seriously done and ended way to early.
We are2nd or 3rd in our division because everyone else is actively rebuilding.
There is no worse place than we are right now, way to high for decent picks but not even remotely close to go for the cup.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

There is no worse place than we are right now, way to high for decent picks but not even remotely close to go for the cup.

How many fanbases would you like me to list off that would beg to differ with your opinion?

 

[Lt Dan]

How many fanbases would you like me to list off that would beg to differ with your opinion?

1,716,762.3 anything less would be uncivilized

 

[Herby]

How many fanbases would you like me to list off that would beg to differ with your opinion?

Depends. Do most fans think like you, "I'd rather lose in the 1st round with very little or no realistic chance at a championship than have a Top 5 pick" or would most fanbases rather suck for an unknown amount of time and maybe come out of it with a championship caliber core (while also acknowledging the risk of being Buffalo)

I think on HFBoards, with more passionate and hardcore fans in it for the long-run most would prefer the traditional rebuilds that Pittsburgh, LA, Tampa and Chicago used to build multi-time cup winners. I've been on this forum for over two decades and I have seen many fanbases wish for tear down rebuilds, so you can't say that many fanbases haven't wanted that.

The answer is probably different for the casual fan who only goes to the rink when it's playoff time and only watches the Kings when the Lakers and Dodgers aren't on tv.

If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup the answer is easy, a total rebuild is not a guarantee of Stanley Cups (As GBH always points out), but it presents a much better opportunity to do it than 5-6 years as a middling in the black hole does, nobody (not even you) could look at the evidence and argue otherwise.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Depends. Do most fans think like you, "I'd rather lose in the 1st round with very little or no realistic chance at a championship than have a Top 5 pick" or would most fanbases rather suck for an unknown amount of time and maybe come out of it with a championship caliber core (while also acknowledging the risk of being Buffalo)

I think on HFBoards, with more passionate and hardcore fans in it for the long-run most would prefer the traditional rebuilds that Pittsburgh, LA, Tampa and Chicago used to build multi-time cup winners. I've been on this forum for over two decades and I have seen many fanbases wish for tear down rebuilds, so you can't say that many fanbases haven't wanted that.

No f***ing way…..I repeat, NO f***ING WAY are the majority ‘hardcore fans’ of a 3-year and running playoff team, screaming for a tear down rebuild.

That’s the f***ing greatest thing I’ve heard all week, lol.

 

[Herby]

No f***ing way…..I repeat, NO f***ING WAY are the majority ‘hardcore fans’ of a 3-year and running playoff team, screaming for a tear down rebuild.

That’s the f***ing greatest thing I’ve heard all week, lol.

Axl, half the league makes the playoffs, you continue to act like finishing 3rd in the Pacific Division and being trucked by Edmonton is some huge accomplishment. Many of us lived through this already from 97-02 and were happy to do a tear down rebuild to try and win a Stanley Cup.

Do you really think winning a Stanley Cup isn't important to most fans on HF?

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

What would be added to Spence if Peterka was dangled.

Kings really need a right shot scoring winger right now - That's why the OP mentioned interest in Quinn or Tuch.

If it were a deal involving Spence for Peterka that would be a pretty interesting one. And pretty tough to evaluate in terms of trade value.

Peterka is definitely the better player right now - But Spence is very very solid in his own right. Peterka probably could end up being a consistent 30 goal, 70 point player in his prime. Spence could end up being a very solid, mobile, top 4 puck moving D man in his prime (who maybe puts up 40-ish points consistently). Peterka definitely has a bit more upside - But it's tough.

Maybe Spence and a 2025 3rd rounder? But that feels a bit low for Peterka (more speaks to how highly I view Spence).

Maybe Spence and a 2025 2nd round pick would be more fair?

Also though, you guys should probably just keep Peterka lol. Spence doesn't solve any of your problems and Peterka could be a Pavel Buchnevich like player IMO.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Depends. Do most fans think like you, "I'd rather lose in the 1st round with very little or no realistic chance at a championship than have a Top 5 pick" or would most fanbases rather suck for an unknown amount of time and maybe come out of it with a championship caliber core (while also acknowledging the risk of being Buffalo)

I think on HFBoards, with more passionate and hardcore fans in it for the long-run most would prefer the traditional rebuilds that Pittsburgh, LA, Tampa and Chicago used to build multi-time cup winners. I've been on this forum for over two decades and I have seen many fanbases wish for tear down rebuilds, so you can't say that many fanbases haven't wanted that.

The answer is probably different for the casual fan who only goes to the rink when it's playoff time and only watches the Kings when the Lakers and Dodgers aren't on tv.

If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup the answer is easy, a total rebuild is not a guarantee of Stanley Cups (As GBH always points out), but it presents a much better opportunity to do it than 5-6 years as a middling in the black hole does, nobody (not even you) could look at the evidence and argue otherwise.

See, I don't even think this fanbase was that unreasonable about it. Some advocated ripping it down to the studs sure but there was an extremely vocal contingent of us that were just fine keeping Kopitar Doughty Quick and even a few others as mentors for the lottery picks.

The problem we had when everyone got to this point was when they suddenly decided 'rebuild over' after a first round loss and went scorched earth on all their assets leaving us too old and not good enough to compete with the window open teams and yet getting close to getting caught by the younger teams...hence, black hole.

 

[Herby]

See, I don't even think this fanbase was that unreasonable about it. Some advocated ripping it down to the studs sure but there was an extremely vocal contingent of us that were just fine keeping Kopitar Doughty Quick and even a few others as mentors for the lottery picks.

The problem we had when everyone got to this point was when they suddenly decided 'rebuild over' after a first round loss and went scorched earth on all their assets leaving us too old and not good enough to compete with the window open teams and yet getting close to getting caught by the younger teams...hence, black hole.

I mentioned this over on the main board. I think Blake's plan was to draft high for 3 years, swing for the fences that all the picks were big hits and hope to do something similar to what Dallas has done the previous couple of years, have the old guard stick around and be really good secondary pieces. It was having his cake and eating it too, didn't have to have the PR of moving on from Mount Rushmore players, instead was hoping to draft their replacements and have another kick at the can.

The problem was, there was never any adjustment on the fly when circumstances changed, when it became painfully obvious that Turcotte and Byfield were not going to be anywhere close to Blake's Kane/Toews, Kopitar/Doughty, Hedman/Stamkos etc. there was never any thought of taking a step back and slowing things down to add those types of players (which for the better part of 2 decades now, have been prereqs to a contending team) and instead they dove head first into the black hole.

I think the summer of 2021 was the proverbial fork in the road, where Blake realized his original plan was cooked and he was presented with a full tear down that was going to result in trading those guys or just ending the rebuild and trying to win with those guys and added mercenary guys like Danault, Fiala and VA.

And hey, the original idea might have worked had Blake made different draft picks, the idea was risky and required you to hit on all your picks, but it was doable, LA is probably a legit contender right now if you add Stutzle, Boldy and Faber and subtract Byfield, Turcotte and Fiala. So the original vision wasn't a total disaster. But it's just really tough to hit on all your high picks three straight years.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I think some dont understand how. the window works.. you build your team and hope to have a 5 year window to knock on the door and see if it opens up for a cup - since there is plenty of luck involved. Now if you do a half ass rebuild, your window might open for a couple of years because you didnt get enough high end talent to sustain it. The window soon closes and sure you can struggle to stay above the 50% level to make it to the playoffs - but to get through 4 rounds? Thats like lotto level luck. The point is, making the first round and losing 3 years straight is not a sign you are on the right track, its a sign your days are numbered, you've already peaked before even having a real shot. That is why the Kings are in the rebuild quadrant.

 

[Lt Dan]

No f***ing way…..I repeat, NO f***ING WAY are the majority ‘hardcore fans’ of a 3-year and running playoff team, screaming for a tear down rebuild.

That’s the f***ing greatest thing I’ve heard all week, lol.

I am about to make your week way better

 

[FSL KINGS]

Blake needs to be run out of town on a rail.
That's all.

 

[shuchukfan]

I am about to make your week way better

And even better:

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

See, I don't even think this fanbase was that unreasonable about it. Some advocated ripping it down to the studs sure but there was an extremely vocal contingent of us that were just fine keeping Kopitar Doughty Quick and even a few others as mentors for the lottery picks.

The problem we had when everyone got to this point was when they suddenly decided 'rebuild over' after a first round loss and went scorched earth on all their assets leaving us too old and not good enough to compete with the window open teams and yet getting close to getting caught by the younger teams...hence, black hole.

Big facts. The main problem with the Kings is that they tried to accelerate the rebuild / ended the rebuild too early.

We've talked about it 1000 times on here - But we can all agree this team's future would look MUCH different if they had just held onto players like Vilardi, Durzi, Faber, etc and let a new core emerge with time.

Instead they started moving future assets (picks and players) at the first glimpse of success (the playoff berth in 2021/22) and those moves are proving to be quite costly.

That said, I still believe there could be a strong future core that emerges from this current Kings organization - But I'll admit they certainly need a lot to go right / a lot of young players to keep progressing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mentioned this over on the main board. I think Blake's plan was to draft high for 3 years, swing for the fences that all the picks were big hits and hope to do something similar to what Dallas has done the previous couple of years, have the old guard stick around and be really good secondary pieces. It was having his cake and eating it too, didn't have to have the PR of moving on from Mount Rushmore players, instead was hoping to draft their replacements and have another kick at the can.

The problem was, there was never any adjustment on the fly when circumstances changed, when it became painfully obvious that Turcotte and Byfield were not going to be anywhere close to Blake's Kane/Toews, Kopitar/Doughty, Hedman/Stamkos etc. there was never any thought of taking a step back and slowing things down to add those types of players (which for the better part of 2 decades now, have been prereqs to a contending team) and instead they dove head first into the black hole.

I think the summer of 2021 was the proverbial fork in the road, where Blake realized his original plan was cooked and he was presented with a full tear down that was going to result in trading those guys or just ending the rebuild and trying to win with those guys and added mercenary guys like Danault, Fiala and VA.

And hey, the original idea might have worked had Blake made different draft picks, the idea was risky and required you to hit on all your picks, but it was doable, LA is probably a legit contender right now if you add Stutzle, Boldy and Faber and subtract Byfield, Turcotte and Fiala. So the original vision wasn't a total disaster. But it's just really tough to hit on all your high picks three straight years.

So are you saying "we were right there"

 

[FSL KINGS]

So are you saying "we were right there"

We're Right Here!

 

[Statto]

3-year and running playoff team

Great if the best pieces are all under 25 and your vet core is 31-33. Unfortunately our best 2 players are near the end and nobody is close to replacing Kopitar.

If your ambition is to win a round then maybe you can be optimistic.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Great if the best pieces are all under 25 and your vet core is 31-33. Unfortunately our best 2 players are near the end and nobody is close to replacing Kopitar.

If your ambition is to win a round then maybe you can be optimistic.

It's fine, offer sheet Rossi & just replace Doughty with Risto. Totally work.