Another NHL/Olympics disaster...
- Thread starter Beukeboom Fan
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Vancouver will be the last time. Why can't the NHL and NHLPA just come to an agreement to have a World Cup (best on best) every 4 years? They don't have to shut down their seasons for that, and they could hold the finals in Europe and North America in alternate years.
I just don't get it. Tell the IOC and IIHF to take a hike. I mean, look at the NBA and Summer Games right now, the "Dream Team" is hard pressed to even get players now.
Shutting down your season (after a lock-out no less) to showcase your game to Canadians who are already rabid fans, to Europeans, who are already big fans, and the Americans who will always be niche fans is silly. Imagine if Jagr's neck had been broken in an Olympic game! I'm sure the season ticket holders in New York would be tickled that the NHL ensured NHL players could be seen on tape delay even if it cost their team the season!
I just don't get it. Tell the IOC and IIHF to take a hike. I mean, look at the NBA and Summer Games right now, the "Dream Team" is hard pressed to even get players now.
Shutting down your season (after a lock-out no less) to showcase your game to Canadians who are already rabid fans, to Europeans, who are already big fans, and the Americans who will always be niche fans is silly. Imagine if Jagr's neck had been broken in an Olympic game! I'm sure the season ticket holders in New York would be tickled that the NHL ensured NHL players could be seen on tape delay even if it cost their team the season!
Jussi
Registered User
Jussi
Registered User
Hemsky4PM said:
Because the media outside of Canada doesn't care about the World Cup. And neither do the fans. IIRC, none of Finland's home games were sold out in the World Cup.
A "disaster"? Don't you think everyone's overreacting just a little? Russia and Finland iced skilled teams that played as teams . Why can't the NA teams ever lose a game without people going completely overboard?
No NHL players at the Olympics would be a disaster, because the European teams would annihilate Canada and the U.S, and everyone would be *****ing at the NHL to let them play.
No NHL players at the Olympics would be a disaster, because the European teams would annihilate Canada and the U.S, and everyone would be *****ing at the NHL to let them play.
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why is everything a disaster when US/Canada loses? There are other good countries than those two.
Hockey in August is just a total joke. I'm a hockey player and fan, but i would not go to see a World Cup match in august if it was free of cost. I'm swimming in some lake in summer, or scuba diving on holliday! August and Ice is just a total contradiction. Its just amazing what cultural differences come up here!
People want to be cold, drink hot-wine (i lack the word ^^), jump around and sing when they come to the rink. North american fans have the best players over there but when it comes to atmosphere they can't even imagine in their wildest dreams whats going on in europe.
You should ask lockout players about that...
People want to be cold, drink hot-wine (i lack the word ^^), jump around and sing when they come to the rink. North american fans have the best players over there but when it comes to atmosphere they can't even imagine in their wildest dreams whats going on in europe.
You should ask lockout players about that...
Kritter471
Registered User
So.... poor results from the NA teams mean is an NHL disaster? From what I'm aware of, a significant portion of the remaining teams have NHL players (and are thrilled to have them)...
I don't get this mentality. Hockey's not just a North American game, and since the NHL proports to have the best players from around the world, shouldn't the success of the NHL players (Selanne, Koivu, Lehtinen, Ovechkin, Bondra, Gaborik, Jagr, Sundin, etc) be all their looking for from a hockey standpoint?
I understand the marketing opportunity for the NHL isn't as large without the built-in North American audience, but I wouldn't call it an NHL failure by any stretch.
I don't get this mentality. Hockey's not just a North American game, and since the NHL proports to have the best players from around the world, shouldn't the success of the NHL players (Selanne, Koivu, Lehtinen, Ovechkin, Bondra, Gaborik, Jagr, Sundin, etc) be all their looking for from a hockey standpoint?
I understand the marketing opportunity for the NHL isn't as large without the built-in North American audience, but I wouldn't call it an NHL failure by any stretch.
Beukeboom Fan said:
Wait a minute : every country member of the big 7 was in the same conditions. And Canada or the US could have selected a couple of players from European leagues.
I don't know how this tight schedule could have affected the US and Canada more than the other countries.
lisario said:
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Canada win back-to-back silver medals in Albertville and Lillehammer before the NHL decided to send its players??
The fact that the USA and Canada did not advance is a disaster for USA Hockey and Hockey Canada. The NHL isn't going to suffer as much. Allowing European players to play in the Olympics helps the popularity of the NHL in Europe. Jagr even said so during an interview this past week. NBC and CBC already showed the majority of the hockey games live anyway, and the Gold Medal Game is one of only two events scheduled for Sunday so it's not as if the media isn't going to cover hockey now that Canada and the US are gone. There is still value to the NHL participating in the Olympics. They just need to figure out how to properly schedule the shutdown so players who play in the Olympics aren't completely exhausted or injured when they finish playing. I guess all the Canadians and Americans and Slovaks will be really well rested now that they have pretty much a week off.
Having a hockey World Cup every 4 years just does not work, particularly when there's a World Championship and World Junior Tournament every year. There's a reason there's only been 2 World Cups in the last 10 years...because there's little interest in it. If they canceled the World Championships and had only World Cups, then that would be different, but I doubt that will happen. Hockey is the only sport that has annual World Championships, so that's why picking between Olympics and World Cups is being discussed. I would rather see the NHL continue in the Olympics. Regardless of the outcome, it's more fun to see players that you know representing your country.
Having a hockey World Cup every 4 years just does not work, particularly when there's a World Championship and World Junior Tournament every year. There's a reason there's only been 2 World Cups in the last 10 years...because there's little interest in it. If they canceled the World Championships and had only World Cups, then that would be different, but I doubt that will happen. Hockey is the only sport that has annual World Championships, so that's why picking between Olympics and World Cups is being discussed. I would rather see the NHL continue in the Olympics. Regardless of the outcome, it's more fun to see players that you know representing your country.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
Kritter471 said:
I think it's pretty apparent that the NHL is/was hoping for the Olympics to introduce new fans (in NA - aka - people that might be tickets) to the sport. That doesn't happen when both of the NA teams get bounced in the quarterfinals. People that aren't hard-core hockey fans really don't care that Selanne is playing some FABULOUS hockey right now. It's sad, but true.
I'm not a bitter NA fan BTW. I am genuinely happy for the Russians & the Finns - they played a great game and deserved to win. Props to them and their fans.
The NHL doesn't squeeze the their schedule and risk injuries to their star players for philanthropic reasons. They were hoping the additional expose would help the NHL. Think of how much crappy hockey people watch this year because their team is playing 4 games in 6 nights. I refused to pay to go see some of these types of games this year, because the product is crap.
shawn_kemp said:
It isn't that the shutdown is an excuse for Canada and the US...it's that if the entire point of NHL participation in the Olympics is to showcase the game, not having the North American teams participate in the medal round takes away the North American audience (in theory) which is the NHL's core audience. So what is the NHL getting out of participating beyond letting the European teams load up with their best players? They aren't getting increased media exposure, increased marketing or increased viewership from their target North American market.
Personally, I don't agree with that mentality, but the thinking is not that the North American teams were at any disadvantage.
Pepper
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2004
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- 274
Jussi said:Would of?
"would have"
Common mistake especially among native-english speakers thanks to the non-phonetic pronounciation of english language, they sound pretty same when said fast but have totally different written form.
We non-native english speakers don't fall to that one as often because our pronounciation is simpler ("more crude" if you will).
These are of course purely my own personal observations and I have absolutely zero scientific evidence to back them up.
abev said:
That's not the point of the thread, at least as I take it. The point (which I don't agree with entirely) is that why should the NHL bother allowing its players to play in the Olympics if it doesn't get any marketing or material benefit out of it...as a result of having Canada and the US out before the medal round?
Frankly, some would probably argue that the Canada-US final in Salt Lake City had a negligible effect on the NHL anyway.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
abev said:
Just to reiterate - I'm not bitter about the results. I'm happy for the teams, and their fans, that won. They played the best, and dserved to win.
My point is that the NHL management was hoping to leverage the Olympics and hopefully introduce the sport to some new fans. These new fans would then buy tickets, thus increasing their revenue streams. That is why they shut the league down for 2.5 weeks, and subject their fans to some really poor hockey due to the compressed schedule. Obviously, all of that goes right out the window because you are not likely to get US non-hockey fans interested in a Finn/Russia.
Kritter471
Registered User
I agree with all of this. But I think it's a marketing problem, not an NHL issue.Beukeboom Fan said:
And I think people lose sight of people watching the quarterfinals and prelim rounds. People in my office who couldn't pick Modano out of a lineup (we live in Dallas, so it's easier that you'd think) were reacting to my USA hockey jersey I wore today. They knew the US team only won one game, they knew they got bounced yesterday by Finland, heck, they even knew Modano mouthed off after the game.
So from a marketing standpoint, it's not the ideal finish. But I wouldn't call it a disaster. People who aren't hard core hockey fans may not care about Selanne, but even casual sports fans will pick up on the Olympics and hear the players names and maybe tune in to watch the third period of the gold medal game, no matter who's playing. Those are the people the NHL wants to hook, and there's still a chance (not as big of a chance) that they'll get some.
bert
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2002
- 37,576
- 23,899
Force said:Hockey in August is just a total joke. I'm a hockey player and fan, but i would not go to see a World Cup match in august if it was free of cost. I'm swimming in some lake in summer, or scuba diving on holliday! August and Ice is just a total contradiction. Its just amazing what cultural differences come up here!
People want to be cold, drink hot-wine (i lack the word ^^), jump around and sing when they come to the rink. North american fans have the best players over there but when it comes to atmosphere they can't even imagine in their wildest dreams whats going on in europe.
You should ask lockout players about that...
Yeah ok you wouldnt go if it was free. Give me a break. I understand that you dont like the world cup format but this is ridiculous. We get your point ok.
When they say its a dissaster I think they mean from an nhl point of view. Which I dont think is the case but I understand the reasoning behind it. The NHL is a north american based hockey league and with neither team even playing for a medal it doesnt look so good.
I personally like that the players compete in the olympics but it is very unfortunate that it happens right in the middle of the nhl season. The Ottawa Senators window for winning the cup is very slim at this point due to the lowered unrestricted free agency age and this might be the last chance for a long time. With Hasek injured there is really no way they will win the cup without him. So yes as a season ticket holder in Ottawa I am pretty upset that he got injured. But going in I knew it was a risk and I was honestly willing to take it to watch the best on best countries in the world. I wanted my cake and to eat it too but it looks like that has doubly backfired for me as a fan. With Canada's early exit and Haseks injury. But hey thats hockey I dont think I would like it so much if it wasnt so risky.
SectionX said:
I would have to agree. Watching Canada get bounced wasnt great for me, but the teams that beat us deserved to.
As far as the NHL goes, it seems to me some top flight young Russian talent was showcased on the world stage. Alexander Ovechkin showed his skill and strong desire in the Canada-Russia game. Evgeni Malkin showed some great presence so far in this tournament as well.
One of the greatest things about world tournaments in hockey is the tremendous diversity of the competition. With seven elite hockey nations, claims of "gold medal favorites" by media dont mean much to me, especially under this format.
Ive always said that I will take Olympic hockey (with NHL'ers) over an All-Star game any day. Its an NHL All-Star talent showcase, with the intensity ramped up far beyond anything an All-Star game could hope to achieve. The level of hockey being played is in no way diminished by the elimination of Canada and the US.
From a marketing perspective, this has been an absolute disaster.
For hardcore hockey fans, who cares that Canada and the U.S. are out.
For hardcore hockey fans, who cares that Canada and the U.S. are out.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I agree with the premise of this thread. The results of the 2006 Olympic Hockey Tournament is a disaster for the NHL, which is a NORTH AMERICAN based hockey league made up of primarily NORTH AMERICAN players, at least percentage wise. Let's be honest, Gary Bettman and co were praying for 1) a strong U.S. finish, perhaps a miracle gold, 2) a strong Canada finish, probably gold. They got neither. Personally, I've been surprised by how much mainstream (mostly negative) coverage the U.S. hockey team has received. It's been a frontpage news story almost from day one.
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