Andreas Athanasiou

[Bench]

Unless AA suddenly has the ability to rip off 30-40g seasons somewhere... he'll do as well or better earnings wise in Detroit than he would anywhere else.

I think you're right... In the long run. But if you're a pro athlete and you want to collect as much as possible as soon as possible because you never know when the next big injury will hit.

It also doesn't sound like either side is in love with one another.

 

[Shaman464]

I think you're right... In the long run. But if you're a pro athlete and you want to collect as much as possible as soon as possible because you never know when the next big injury will hit.

It also doesn't sound like either side is in love with one another.

With Brown and Bennett signing around 1.9-2.1 million dollars, AA doesn't have a leg to stand on. He can demand 10 million a season, but, given his production, his contract status, and what maybe some animosity with the team, him getting anything above market value was a pipe dream.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

With Brown and Bennett signing around 1.9-2.1 million dollars, AA doesn't have a leg to stand on. He can demand 10 million a season, but, given his production, his contract status, and what maybe some animosity with the team, him getting anything above market value was a pipe dream.

Basically. Even ignoring any potential animosity with the team. Teams are getting smarter about RFA deals. Certain players get certain ranges of contracts. You want more, you do what you have to in terms of ingratiating yourself to the coaching staff to get opportunities.

 

[Winger98]

So who would you expect us to ice on defense in 18/19 under proper offseason execution from Holland (presuming a full rebuild is on)?

Since we've already signed Daley? Without knowing how kids do in the lower leagues this year, my best guess is this:

Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Daley, XO, Jensen, Russo

I'd buy Ericsson out to make a stronger run at De Haan, but I don't think the Wings are going to interest him much.

I think you're right... In the long run. But if you're a pro athlete and you want to collect as much as possible as soon as possible because you never know when the next big injury will hit.

It also doesn't sound like either side is in love with one another.

In the short term, I'm not sure he loses anything much salary wise in the NHL if he goes to Russia. He's likely seeing the same salary when he comes back, but he'll have pocketed an extra million or two from Russia.

Agree about the lack of love, too. I'm wondering if Athanasiou also doesn't expect to be put into a position to earn a higher paycheck. It's hard to keep putting up numbers getting 13 minutes and change with no power play time.

 

[Shaman464]

Since we've already signed Daley? Without knowing how kids do in the lower leagues this year, my best guess is this:

Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Daley, XO, Jensen, Russo

I'd buy Ericsson out to make a stronger run at De Haan, but I don't think the Wings are going to interest him much.



In the short term, I'm not sure he loses anything much salary wise in the NHL if he goes to Russia. He's likely seeing the same salary when he comes back, but he'll have pocketed an extra million or two from Russia.

Agree about the lack of love, too. I'm wondering if Athanasiou also doesn't expect to be put into a position to earn a higher paycheck. It's hard to keep putting up numbers getting 13 minutes and change with no power play time.

Well, that's not what Custance is reporting:

While Athanasiou has the leverage of the KHL to bring to these negotiations, the Red Wings can counter with the reality that nothing changes when he returns in a year. In fact, one NHL executive not with Detroit said he'd tell Athanasiou that if he left for the KHL this year, his best offer coming back next year would be his qualifying offer, which is 110 percent of last season̢۪s salary. In Athanasiou̢۪s case, not much.

 

[Winger98]

Well, that's not what Custance is reporting:

No, Custance is reporting what some other anonymous NHL exec claims he would do. Unless Athanasiou blows out a knee or something, Holland's going to leave that $1.9m on the table, and that's what Athanasiou will come back to.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I think you're right... In the long run. But if you're a pro athlete and you want to collect as much as possible as soon as possible because you never know when the next big injury will hit.

It also doesn't sound like either side is in love with one another.

Signing with us for 2 years at 1.9M per is more money overall than the 3M the KHL is offering. I don't know about as much as possible as soon as possible; I think if he's wise he should concentrate on just the first part "as much as possible" unless he or his family are in dire financial need. He could end his career via injury the first game of the season and our contract would pay out more than his 1 year KHL deal.

I think this has more to do with ego and petulance than the actual financial figures, as he's been offered a fair deal by his NHL club. A decision was to have been made already, not sure what's the hold up. Maybe working out a trade, which would be fine by me at this point.

 

[chris05]

I'm wondering if Athanasiou also doesn't expect to be put into a position to earn a higher paycheck. It's hard to keep putting up numbers getting 13 minutes and change with no power play time.
______________________________________________________________________________-____

The most useless pp in the NHL. Marazek and Jimmy should have earned twice the pay when the pp specialists took to the ice. Let's have are most skilled player by miles watch... no hands no vision and no comparison in athletic ability try to make plays (except for Vanek). The kicker is having a player with all that speed having to make full stops because they can't get him the puck. the game is more enjoyable to watch and also translates to more team success when a real athlete like AA is playing the game of hockey as opposed to all those so called top hockey players that are considered athletes because they play. That is why with so limited playing time AA can produce and why over rated first rounders who need to be surrounded with a supporting cast and an abundance of playing time have a hard time keeping up. Anticipating when AA is going to come on the ice for his next shift builds more excitement than watching the wings front office "hot garbage" trying to play the game. Comparables are for those over rated under performing first rounders who produce numbers a fifth rounder produces and provide 1/10 the entertainment value.

 

[RedWingzz]

I love AA, one of my favorite players to watch, but this is now getting ridiculous. Make up your mind kid. 1.9 over 2 years is fair value. If you want the extra money then go to the KHL, but this needs to end. This certainly does raise questions about his character.

 

[jkutswings]

If he signs here, he continues to play on a bad team, with little opportunity to improve his stock.

If he signs in the KHL on a team with any supporting talent whatsoever, he should put up better stats, and be more marketable. Or at least be attractive enough to stay over there at a decent salary until Detroit trades his rights.

And maybe it's not just about the money. I'd sooner play for a whole lot of other teams than this one right now.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And maybe it's not just about the money. I'd sooner play for a whole lot of other teams than this one right now.

This line of thinking is so ridiculous. Detroit has been a playoff team 25 of the last 26 years and now all of a sudden they're supposed to be a team that players should be desperate to get away from? They're still moving into a new building, they have good ownership, they spend money, they still have Henrik frickin' Zetterberg as the captain. If AA is so determined to be on a better team maybe he should step up and become the consistent star-caliber forward he has potential to be. If he wants to be traded, Wings can trade him to Arizona or Vegas where he'll have a close to zero chance of ever winning anything.

 

[Frk It]

This line of thinking is so ridiculous. Detroit has been a playoff team 25 of the last 26 years and now all of a sudden they're supposed to be a team that players should be desperate to get away from? They're still moving into a new building, they have good ownership, they spend money, they still have Henrik frickin' Zetterberg as the captain. If AA is so determined to be on a better team maybe he should step up and become the consistent star-caliber forward he has potential to be. If he wants to be traded, Wings can trade him to Arizona or Vegas where he'll have a close to zero chance of ever winning anything.

Datsyuk left, Babcock left, our RFA's are starting to become more difficult negotiations... it's not ridiculous at all.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Datsyuk left, Babcock left, our RFA's are starting to become more difficult negotiations... it's not ridiculous at all.

Lots of good teams have had trouble with certain RFAs. Trying to make it seem as though all good teams have an easy time signing everyone they want, and anyone the Wings have some issues signing is obviously desperate to get out is silly.
Yeah players like winning but they generally like money more.
And for RFAs to try to force their way out of a team it generally takes other circumstances that have a lot less to do with team success. I don't think AA is necessarily there yet, right now it likely has a lot more to do with taking bad advice from his agent.
If AA wants to find team success in the NHL, the most shortsighted thing he could do would be to bolt to Russia so it's a very, very poor excuse for not signing a fair offer.

 

[Shaman464]

If he signs here, he continues to play on a bad team, with little opportunity to improve his stock.

If he signs in the KHL on a team with any supporting talent whatsoever, he should put up better stats, and be more marketable. Or at least be attractive enough to stay over there at a decent salary until Detroit trades his rights.

And maybe it's not just about the money. I'd sooner play for a whole lot of other teams than this one right now.

No, going to a lesser league, pissing off the FO, and being a year divorced from your last NHL play does not improve your stock. It objectively depresses your value.

 

[StargateSG1]

Datsyuk left, Babcock left, our RFA's are starting to become more difficult negotiations... it's not ridiculous at all.

Of course it's not ridiculous,
no one will take any "hometown discounts to win" anymore.
If they stay on the bad team, they'll want to get paid the max
they can.
And with the 8 overpaid players, you can't even make any argument about the "salary structure", because there isn't one.

 

[Shaman464]

Of course it's not ridiculous,
no one will take any "hometown discounts to win" anymore.
If they stay on the bad team, they'll want to get paid the max
they can.
And with the 8 overpaid players, you can't even make any argument about the "salary structure", because there isn't one.

Yes there is, RFAs get league RFA contracts. And KH gives market value to all of his UFAs. He doesn't know how to pass any vet on the team up and let them hit the market. He doesn't like to trade them at the TDL (save for Smith and Vanek), and he doesn't like to play hardball with his boys.

AA is not the same situation. Even if it was, KH has offered the exact market value for AA (~2x2).

 

[StargateSG1]

Yes there is, RFAs get league RFA contracts. And KH gives market value to all of his UFAs. He doesn't know how to pass any vet on the team up and let them hit the market. He doesn't like to trade them at the TDL (save for Smith and Vanek), and he doesn't like to play hardball with his boys.

AA is not the same situation. Even if it was, KH has offered the exact market value for AA (~2x2).

I think you misunderstood what we are saying.
There are 30 other teams in the NHL, Wings are by far not THE destination anymore to want to be in.
Some of these RFAs might be looking to either get paid the max amounts OR get traded.
Not too difficult to understand.

 

[Shaman464]

I think you misunderstood what we are saying.
There are 30 other teams in the NHL, Wings are by far not THE destination anymore to want to be in.
Some of these RFAs might be looking to either get paid the max amounts OR get traded.
Not too difficult to understand.

Apparently its pretty difficult for you to understand one simple concept: RFAs have nearly NO ability to make demands, especially when they don't have arbitration rights. They either play for the contract offered for them, they risk their career in a lesser league where no transfer agreement exists (Read Russia or North Korea), or they sit. Trouba tried to turn the screws in Winnipeg last year, and he is by far a better player than AA and he ended up sitting out quite a few games and still getting a contract well below what he thought he would.

AA doesn't have any real control over where he plays. If he gets ****** and demands a trade he hurts his stock further because that will be the second time in 3 leagues that he's been a prima donna.

 

[Filppula]

If I were on a team where Helm and Abdelkader are making ridiculous money, I'd be asking for more than I'm probably realistically worth also.

 

[StargateSG1]

Apparently its pretty difficult for you to understand one simple concept: RFAs have nearly NO ability to make demands, especially when they don't have arbitration rights. They either play for the contract offered for them, they risk their career in a lesser league where no transfer agreement exists (Read Russia or North Korea), or they sit. Trouba tried to turn the screws in Winnipeg last year, and he is by far a better player than AA and he ended up sitting out quite a few games and still getting a contract well below what he thought he would.

AA doesn't have any real control over where he plays. If he gets ****** and demands a trade he hurts his stock further because that will be the second time in 3 leagues that he's been a prima donna.

But the tides will turn very soon, good luck signing them when arbitration rights and UFA rights kick in.

AA will be an NHL player no matter what, he is not a GM on the hot seat with ruined legacy.

 

[Ezekial]

But the tides will turn very soon, good luck signing them when arbitration rights and UFA rights kick in.

AA will be an NHL player no matter what, he is not a GM on the hot seat with ruined legacy.

Why would we have difficult signing RFAs with arbitration rights?

They go to an arbitrator, we pay them what was settled in court.

 

[jkutswings]

Think about this from Athanasiou's perspective.

You're a young, cocky forward, who loves to be flashy on offense, and would just as soon let defensive responsibilities go by the wayside. You've butted heads with the coaching staff on multiple occasions, and now the front office is making you an offer that you think is a tad low.

I see three scenarios that would be attractive to me:

1) I play for a championship caliber team. Maybe they let me be the niche scorer that I am, or maybe they ask me to play more defense than I'd prefer, but either way, we win a ton of games, and have a shot at a Stanley Cup.

Verdict: Detroit isn't even MAKING the playoffs, let alone doing any damage in them. This one's out the window.


2) I play for a team that, win or lose, lets me focus on what's most fun for me: being a human highlight reel, and not caring much about backchecking or other two-way play.

Verdict: The Wings have a coaching staff that would prefer to skate 4 lines of Luke Glendening out there. Strike two.


3) I might not like the team, or the style, or the win/loss record, but I get paid boatloads of money to play in the NHL. Make it rain, baby!

Verdict: I'm not saying the kid deserves more money, but it's pretty clear that Detroit isn't spending a dime more than they have to, and that they have AA locked in at a $2M cap on value.



So if the team is going to continue to stink, and going to continue to ask me to play defense, and going to continue to pay me less money than I can get elsewhere...

...what about Detroit is better than goofing around in the KHL for a few years? If I'm AA, even if they never trade my rights, there's no incentive to stick around and suffer through changing my game, just to keep losing either way.



The Wings are going to keep losing players that they place in the 'selective discipline' category, because, other than a new arena, they no longer have anything that's a draw to play here.

 

[vladdy16]

16 assists in 101 games.

 

[StargateSG1]

16 assists in 101 games.

Brett Hull?

 

[Shaman464]

Brett Hull?

When AA puts up 86 goals in a season, then he can slack on dishing it out.