Player Discussion: Anders Lee

[crasherino]

Only way I trade Lee or Eberle for that matter is if both refuse to sign by the TDL. I'd lock both up if at all possible.

And there's no reason for either of them not to sign. Eberle should be the easier one. Lee may be a little more difficult as he'll probably want term longer than 5 years and may hold out for 7. That's something the team shouldn't do but I think they can reasonably land on 6 years.

I can understand the FO wanting to see how the makeup of the team coming out of the gates and make sure that each are guys that they want long term. For Lee, I'm not really sure what they want to see as they know what they're dealing with from over the past few years. He's a bull in front of the net and in the corners and is limited in other ways. I doubt anything transpires that will change their view one way or another. If they want to see how he produces away from Tavares, they'll have to wait a while as you can judge a guy like Lee in a short period of time. His body of work is too large.

For Eberle though, his biggest positive is his connection with Barzal. If they find a connection beyond Eberle that seems to work (or it becomes apparent that MB makes everyone on his wing look great), the utility of keeping Eberle around likely drops. He probably is also aware that his value on the open market is somewhat limited and if he can get a long term deal here in the neighborhood of his old deal, he probably should go ahead and take it.

I would try and lock up Lee for 5-6 years at an AAV of between $6m - $7m after camp and perhaps hold off for a bit on Eberle with an eye towards re-signing him if he continues to produce.

 

[blinkman360]

And there's no reason for either of them not to sign. Eberle should be the easier one. Lee may be a little more difficult as he'll probably want term longer than 5 years and may hold out for 7. That's something the team shouldn't do but I think they can reasonably land on 6 years.

I can understand the FO wanting to see how the makeup of the team coming out of the gates and make sure that each are guys that they want long term. For Lee, I'm not really sure what they want to see as they know what they're dealing with from over the past few years. He's a bull in front of the net and in the corners and is limited in other ways. I doubt anything transpires that will change their view one way or another. If they want to see how he produces away from Tavares, they'll have to wait a while as you can judge a guy like Lee in a short period of time. His body of work is too large.

For Eberle though, his biggest positive is his connection with Barzal. If they find a connection beyond Eberle that seems to work (or it becomes apparent that MB makes everyone on his wing look great), the utility of keeping Eberle around likely drops. He probably is also aware that his value on the open market is somewhat limited and if he can get a long term deal here in the neighborhood of his old deal, he probably should go ahead and take it.

I would try and lock up Lee for 5-6 years at an AAV of between $6m - $7m after camp and perhaps hold off for a bit on Eberle with an eye towards re-signing him if he continues to produce.

Yeah I don't see Lee taking a huge hit with JT gone. He's still the go-to-guy in front of the net on PP1 and should continue to rack up goals there with Barzal taking over. He's got chemistry with Bailey as far as ES time goes, so it's just a matter of finding the 3rd wheel to that line. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't at least hit 30 next year, but I'm expecting closer to 35. I don't see how that wouldn't be a player that Lou and Barry would want to keep around.

Also, in regards to Eberle - absolutely. He won the lottery with Barzal and I don't see him looking to give that up unless the Isles really low-ball him.

 

[crasherino]

Yeah I don't see Lee taking a huge hit with JT gone. He's still the go-to-guy in front of the net on PP1 and should continue to rack up goals there with Barzal taking over. He's got chemistry with Bailey as far as ES time goes, so it's just a matter of finding the 3rd wheel to that line. I'd be pretty surprised if he doesn't at least hit 30 next year, but I'm expecting closer to 35. I don't see how that wouldn't be a player that Lou and Barry would want to keep around.

Also, in regards to Eberle - absolutely. He won the lottery with Barzal and I don't see him looking to give that up unless the Isles really low-ball him.

Nelson and Lee did pretty well together back in the day. Unless Kovar comes in and kills it, lets put Nelson as the Center to that line and see what happens. Obviously a huge downgrade from the previous tenant, but we play with what we have. Its a team game and if that line can be effective, that's what we need.

Kovar, Filppula and Nelson are all on 1 year deals. Let them fight it out for the #2/3C but lets see what Lee/Nelson/Bailey can do at the outset. Nelson has everything in the world to prove....

 

[steveat]

Kovar is an actual centre that is a PPG player in the K. Why on earth would we be putting Lee with Nelson who cannot create a play to save his life???

 

[blinkman360]

Nelson and Lee did pretty well together back in the day. Unless Kovar comes in and kills it, lets put Nelson as the Center to that line and see what happens. Obviously a huge downgrade from the previous tenant, but we play with what we have. Its a team game and if that line can be effective, that's what we need.

Kovar, Filppula and Nelson are all on 1 year deals. Let them fight it out for the #2/3C but lets see what Lee/Nelson/Bailey can do at the outset. Nelson has everything in the world to prove....

I'm fine with that but I think I'd try Bailey at C before going with Nelson. I'm curious to see how he fares there at this point in his career now that the lightbulb has turned on. If it works, it solves a huge need while opening up a top-six RW spot for either JHS this year or Wahlstrom potentially next year. If it doesn't work, slide him back - no harm no foul. Go with Brock or Kovar in the short-term. Perhaps even Beauvillier depending on how things look on that first line, and whether or not we want to open up a LW spot for Bellows at some point.

 

[crasherino]

Kovar is an actual centre that is a PPG player in the K. Why on earth would we be putting Lee with Nelson who cannot create a play to save his life???

Because Nelson is an actual center who's played in the actual NHL. He's also played with Lee in the past and had success. So, I'd give it a try. If it doesn't work, sure - give Kovar a try. And as Blink suggests, I'd also give Bailey a try. That's what training camp is for - working out different possibilities.

But I wouldn't put Kovar in the lineup in ink just yet. I know Nelson is everyone's favorite whipping boy here but he is a 20 goal scorer in this league. Kovar is a wildcard - low risk lottery ticket. If he works out - great, we get a legit player for free. But its not like the team is truly invested in him.

 

[ndgolden]

Nelson and Lee did pretty well together back in the day. Unless Kovar comes in and kills it, lets put Nelson as the Center to that line and see what happens. Obviously a huge downgrade from the previous tenant, but we play with what we have. Its a team game and if that line can be effective, that's what we need.

Kovar, Filppula and Nelson are all on 1 year deals. Let them fight it out for the #2/3C but lets see what Lee/Nelson/Bailey can do at the outset. Nelson has everything in the world to prove....

Nelson and Lee last played together nearly 5 years ago, and both ended up getting scratched in the play-offs. Brock has to play wing to maximize his talents and offensive production.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Kovar is an actual centre that is a PPG player in the K. Why on earth would we be putting Lee with Nelson who cannot create a play to save his life???

You mean it is not time to reinvent the wheel?
Neither Bailey nor Nelson are good enough to center one of our top two lines.

 

[Seph]

But I wouldn't put Kovar in the lineup in ink just yet. I know Nelson is everyone's favorite whipping boy here but he is a 20 goal scorer in this league. Kovar is a wildcard - low risk lottery ticket. If he works out - great, we get a legit player for free. But its not like the team is truly invested in him.

Nelson and Kovar will both be UFA at the end of this year, so it's not like there's any reason to be any more invested in Nelson than Kovar.

You mean it is not time to reinvent the wheel?
Neither Bailey nor Nelson are good enough to center one of our top two lines.

I don't see how one can have a strong opinion on Bailey playing center, seeing that he hasn't done so other than spot duty in over 5 years and is clearly not the same player as then. No reason not to give him a chance to earn the spot in camp.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Nelson and Kovar will both be UFA at the end of this year, so it's not like there's any reason to be any more invested in Nelson than Kovar.

I don't see how one can have a strong opinion on Bailey playing center, seeing that he hasn't done so other than spot duty in over 5 years and is clearly not the same player as then. No reason not to give him a chance to earn the spot in camp.

He was moved to Wing because of his play at C. I do not see what has changed since then, besides him being the third cog in our top line.

 

[Seph]

He was moved to Wing because of his play at C. I do not see what has changed since then, besides him being the third cog in our top line.

Yes, but that was over 5 years ago. He also was a 21 year old being asked to carry Matt Martin and an over the hill Rolston. Shockingly, he played better when he was moved to Nielsen's line and got to play with better linemates. I don't think that necessarily means he will never be able to play center well. I mean, ideally we'd play someone with a history of success as a 2nd line NHL center, but since we don't have one on the roster who fits that description, it makes sense to give multiple guys a look and see who does the best.

But I guess if you don't think he's improved at all as a player in the past 5+ years, then apparently we're just watching different players.

 

[crasherino]

Yes, but that was over 5 years ago. He also was a 21 year old being asked to carry Matt Martin and an over the hill Rolston. Shockingly, he played better when he was moved to Nielsen's line and got to play with better linemates. I don't think that necessarily means he will never be able to play center well. I mean, ideally we'd play someone with a history of success as a 2nd line NHL center, but since we don't have one on the roster who fits that description, it makes sense to give multiple guys a look and see who does the best.

But I guess if you don't think he's improved at all as a player in the past 5+ years, then apparently we're just watching different players.

This. All of it.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Yes, but that was over 5 years ago. He also was a 21 year old being asked to carry Matt Martin and an over the hill Rolston. Shockingly, he played better when he was moved to Nielsen's line and got to play with better linemates. I don't think that necessarily means he will never be able to play center well. I mean, ideally we'd play someone with a history of success as a 2nd line NHL center, but since we don't have one on the roster who fits that description, it makes sense to give multiple guys a look and see who does the best.

But I guess if you don't think he's improved at all as a player in the past 5+ years, then apparently we're just watching different players.

So Josh has learned to be a better center by playing wing? Sorry, not buying it. That ship sailed eons ago.

 

[crasherino]

So Josh has learned to be a better center by playing wing? Sorry, not buying it. That ship sailed eons ago.

No....he learned to be a better hockey player by getting experience in the NHL. I don't think anyone is suggesting that he's a shoe in to be our #2C - not by a long shot. Rather, we have a number of options - why not put him as one of them and see how it pans out? It's not like our other options are so fantastic. They're all somewhat to mostly flawed.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

Lee needs to be traded before other teams catch on that Tavares made him a 40 goal scorer. Away from the front of the net Lee is a huge detriment. All one has to do is look at Lee, Tavares and Bailey's +- . Tavares and Bailey carried Lee. If Lee isn't paired with Barzel, he won't score 20 goals this year. See Matt Moulson.

 

[Seph]

So Josh has learned to be a better center by playing wing? Sorry, not buying it. That ship sailed eons ago.

You really don't see any skills that might be developed while playing wing that would be transferable to center? Especially for a wing that's been main defensive player on his line and is a natural playmaker? None of that at all would be applicable for a center?

Real question, and I don't mean it as an insult, but have you ever played ice hockey? You can absolutely develop your ability for playing center by playing wing. If you can acknowledge that Bailey is a much better player today than he was at 21, then it's illogical to assume he wouldn't be any better at playing center today than he was at 21.

And if nothing else, just having better linemates than Rolston and Martin alone, not to mention a better coach than Gordon/Capuano, would help out a lot.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Lee needs to be traded before other teams catch on that Tavares made him a 40 goal scorer.

As opposed to a 30 goal scorer? You are blind if you think that Lee's finishing abilities aren't excellent. Tavares helped him reach 40 but he is definitely a good goal scorer. I also disagree with you, Lee isn't nearly as bad as Moulson away from the puck

 

[steveat]

Lee is actually a pretty smart player. Notice how few people bitch about his play? He doesn't make a whole lot of mistakes and he can play without John Traitores.

Put him with Zeeker and Ho-sang, I think he can do well. He'll be able to work on just about any line that is not centered by Nelson.

If he plays with Nelson, I would not be surprised that he ends up sub 40 points (POINTS not goals) for the whole season.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

As opposed to a 30 goal scorer? You are blind if you think that Lee's finishing abilities aren't excellent. Tavares helped him reach 40 but he is definitely a good goal scorer. I also disagree with you, Lee isn't nearly as bad as Moulson away from the puck

I know it's all opinion, but I feel very strongly about my claim.
When the Isles were in their own zone and the JT line was on the ice, the opponents knew the puck would rarely be passed to Lee's wing, because his own teammates didn't trust him to get the puck out of the zone. JT and Bailey rarely passed the puck to Lee in the neutral zone, because Lee is such a bad skater, he would just shoot the puck in and essentially turn the puck over to a defensemen. Essentially when the JT line was on the ice, it was like playing shorthanded in 2 of the 3 zones. I would urge you to watch games from last year (I think you can if you have NHL.TV)
and focus on Lee away from the puck, in both the defensive zone and neutral zone. It will become very apparent how bad a skater he is and how much of a detriment he was on the whole. Puck possession time is what it's all about and Lee was a handicap in that sense.

 

[PWJunior]

I know it's all opinion, but I feel very strongly about my claim.
When the Isles were in their own zone and the JT line was on the ice, the opponents knew the puck would rarely be passed to Lee's wing, because his own teammates didn't trust him to get the puck out of the zone. JT and Bailey rarely passed the puck to Lee in the neutral zone, because Lee is such a bad skater, he would just shoot the puck in and essentially turn the puck over to a defensemen. Essentially when the JT line was on the ice, it was like playing shorthanded in 2 of the 3 zones. I would urge you to watch games from last year (I think you can if you have NHL.TV)
and focus on Lee away from the puck, in both the defensive zone and neutral zone. It will become very apparent how bad a skater he is and how much of a detriment he was on the whole. Puck possession time is what it's all about and Lee was a handicap in that sense.

Completely agree with this.

Lee is a lumbering post up big in a game that's trending towards speed. He's a throwback to an older era. He's much better than Moulson, but he is the same type of one dimensional player that benefitted from big minutes in favorable conditions. He is probably the best at what he does in the league, that type of player can score goals in any era. He ideally should be on the 3rd line at ES and on the top PP, he can score 30 goals in that deployment strategy easily.

Paying him like a #1LW with the majority of his contract involving his 30's gives me serious pause. He's got the best one dimension you can have, we can get a lot for him in the trade market and we change the dynamic of one of scoring lines.

 

[ndgolden]

Completely agree with this.

Lee is a lumbering post up big in a game that's trending towards speed. He's a throwback to an older era. He's much better than Moulson, but he is the same type of one dimensional player that benefitted from big minutes in favorable conditions. He is probably the best at what he does in the league, that type of player can score goals in any era. He ideally should be on the 3rd line at ES and on the top PP, he can score 30 goals in that deployment strategy easily.

Paying him like a #1LW with the majority of his contract involving his 30's gives me serious pause. He's got the best one dimension you can have, we can get a lot for him in the trade market and we change the dynamic of one of scoring lines.

Gotta laugh at the detractors as PW and LA guy clearly feel he is a forty goal scoring slough. The Islanders really need to let this kid go if he truly is so one dimensional, especially when he can be easily replaced. Hopefully some team can use someone who simply can score goals. I tend to rely on facts, and you two clearly do not. Maybe spend some time researching first before simply throwing this stuff out there. It just makes you look foolish.

 

[PWJunior]

Gotta laugh at the detractors as PW and LA guy clearly feel he is a forty goal scoring slough. The Islanders really need to let this kid go if he truly is so one dimensional, especially when he can be easily replaced. Hopefully some team can use someone who simply can score goals. I tend to rely on facts, and you two clearly do not. Maybe spend some time researching first before simply throwing this stuff out there. It just makes you look foolish.

His skating is an issue, always has been. I know Lee is your favorite player and all, but take a step back and take out your bias. I admire his ability to score goals, there are very few like him in the NHL and I do value his skillset. I never said he could be easily replaced, that's your issue not mine. Going forward, I'm not sure he's the best fit for our top line as he's a specialist. He should be a rock on the PP, but he doesn't bring much else to the table. We have to play a certain style to fully utilize his abilities, a style incongruent with where the game is going.

I don't feel comfortable giving Lee big money and big term because we'll be paying for what likely will be declining production once he hits 30, just like virtually every other big UFA signing or re-signing. His value is probably at it's highest and the return would be very beneficial long term for the organization IMO. I don't feel like wasting Lee's prime years that are left and then watch him degrade as the rest of the team around him takes flight. I root for the Isles Crest, sorry if that disappoints you.

 

[ndgolden]

His skating is an issue, always has been. I know Lee is your favorite player and all, but take a step back and take out your bias. I admire his ability to score goals, there are very few like him in the NHL and I do value his skillset. I never said he could be easily replaced, that's your issue not mine. Going forward, I'm not sure he's the best fit for our top line as he's a specialist. He should be a rock on the PP, but he doesn't bring much else to the table. We have to play a certain style to fully utilize his abilities, a style incongruent with where the game is going.

I don't feel comfortable giving Lee big money and big term because we'll be paying for what likely will be declining production once he hits 30, just like virtually every other big UFA signing or re-signing. His value is probably at it's highest and the return would be very beneficial long term for the organization IMO. I don't feel like wasting Lee's prime years that are left and then watch him degrade as the rest of the team around him takes flight. I root for the Isles Crest, sorry if that disappoints you.

None of your comments disappoint me, LOL Just the basis of your arguments are unfounded and full of holes. Lets just both agree that Lou will do whats right by the Isles Crest and whether he is traded or signed Lou probably knows more than you and I.

I do find it humorous that you were fine paying #91 12+ million over 8 years without any real concern for his declining play or speed despite 91 failing to outscore 27 the last two years. Also Lee had more primary assists to #91 than #91 to Lee during the last two years, but lets not let facts cloud our judgement.

 

[PWJunior]

None of your comments disappoint me, LOL Just the basis of your arguments are unfounded and full of holes. Lets just both agree that Lou will do whats right by the Isles Crest and whether he is traded or signed Lou probably knows more than you and I.

I do find it humorous that you were fine paying #91 12+ million over 8 years without any real concern for his declining play or speed despite 91 failing to outscore 27 the last two years. Also Lee had more primary assists to the #91 than #91 to Lee during the last two years, but lets not let facts cloud our judgement.

Judas was a very different story and situation than Lee. It's not just about production. There are other dynamics in play and that's what I'm focused on. I know Lee can score goals and will continue to score goals. I have never disputed that. His skating is an issue, that's not coming out of nowhere. He's a physical beast and can hold his own in the corners, that's a plus. He doesn't contribute in zone entry or in the transition game, he goes to his office where he's most effective. Those are minuses.

I think we should trade him for the reasons I've outlined many times. Just like we've had to do with Pajamas, we move on.

 

[crasherino]

None of your comments disappoint me, LOL Just the basis of your arguments are unfounded and full of holes. Lets just both agree that Lou will do whats right by the Isles Crest and whether he is traded or signed Lou probably knows more than you and I.

I do find it humorous that you were fine paying #91 12+ million over 8 years without any real concern for his declining play or speed despite 91 failing to outscore 27 the last two years. Also Lee had more primary assists to #91 than #91 to Lee during the last two years, but lets not let facts cloud our judgement.

I'm not sure if its ever been addressed, but what is your connection to Lee? Are you related, good friends, lovers....what? Is it just the ND connection? Gotta be more, me thinks. Were you an Islander fan before he came here? Will you be one after?

I happen to not agree with PWJ on Lee but at least his opinion is objective.

Just curious....