... and your nominees are ...

Brock

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Brock you are referring to New Jersey, Buffallo, Carolina, and yourself. All of these teams had some value players, prospects and cash when they were rebuilding. The only team that I can think that was in similar position like Atlanta was Columbus which Doug took over and turned it around. Although, Columbus had some cash to acquire talent.

Speaking only for myself here. I had only 4 players above 70OV when I took over the Panthers. These players were Shawn Maceachern (75OV), Steve Shields (75OV), Trevor Kidd (72), and Aki Berg (70). That's no value players. All four were also pending UFA's, making any little value they did have obsolete.

In terms of prospects, I did not have much at all. I had one quality prospect in Pascal Leclaire. I had a few other decent ones, and then longshot ones who ended up working out like Svatos and Jussi Jokinen despite the fact that in 2002, they weren't considered much of anything.

So I had a roster full of complete scrubs, and very few prospects.

I did however have money in the bank at over $18 million. That I was fortunate with.

But as long as you are patient, you can turn **** into gold.

I just feel that if we start giving teams money for the sake of it, it could take away some of the reality in the league, and in turn promote GM lazyness and less caution.

Perhaps, I could be in favor of a one time cash advance to a new GM taking over a team near bankruptcy. But a constant babysitting, I'm not in favor of.
 

Wildman

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Speaking only for myself here. I had only 4 players above 70OV when I took over the Panthers. These players were Shawn Maceachern (75OV), Steve Shields (75OV), Trevor Kidd (72), and Aki Berg (70). That's no value players. All four were also pending UFA's, making any little value they did have obsolete.

In terms of prospects, I did not have much at all. I had one quality prospect in Pascal Leclaire. I had a few other decent ones, and then longshot ones who ended up working out like Svatos and Jussi Jokinen despite the fact that in 2002, they weren't considered much of anything.

So I had a roster full of complete scrubs, and very few prospects.

I did however have money in the bank at over $18 million. That I was fortunate with.

But as long as you are patient, you can turn **** into gold.

I just feel that if we start giving teams money for the sake of it, it could take away some of the reality in the league, and in turn promote GM lazyness and less caution.

Perhaps, I could be in favor of a one time cash advance to a new GM taking over a team near bankruptcy. But a constant babysitting, I'm not in favor of.

I am not saying we should give one time cash advance but we need to revisit the revenue meter. I don't think making $20M per season is enough to run HFNHL team and be competitive. Also, in order for a team to be competitive, they need to moderately deep into free agency and build their prospect pool and in order to do this, we need both cash and time.
 

Toronto_AGM_Adil

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Adil, I think the reality is that rebuilding teams are always going to be in a tough position. I don't think in any sport, is the rebuilding process kind to the owners, the GM, or anyone else in a position of authority. The rebuilding phase is more a necessary evil, if you will. In the NHL, a team will go into rebuilding phase and quite often lose many fans, go through a G.M. and coaching change, and most likely lose much money. But you do it because you like to think that 3 years or 5 years down the road it will be worth it. You'll be winning again, the fans will return, the management will be stabilized, and you'll return to sound economic times.

Rebuilding isn't a kind phase to anyone involved. I don't think you can reward a team financially for rebuilding, because in reality that would not happen. We try to make this league as realistic and as close to the NHL as possible, and if we start throwing money around to teams who are rebuilding and encourage 'losing', well than I don't think that would resemble the NHL very much.

To me, the Mountain Dew endorsement, as well as the standing improvement endorsement are more than enough to help a rebuilding team get through some tougher times. It was enough for me. It was enough for the Canucks, Devils, Avs. And we did primarily without the help of endorsements, because those are a new introduction.

Okay, I'm not suggesting we reward teams for rebuilding, merely that each team should be able to afford at least a 35M payroll... the sum total of all NHL payroll are 1.45B, while the HFNHL has 1.13B... if you want salaries to be inline with NHL salaries then that 320M difference will have to be reduced in the future. I know the minimum OV was meant to help reduce that difference, however I don't know see how some of the rebuilding teams will be able to afford it given how revenues sit today.

Additionally, to be fair, most teams today have to meet the minimum OV rule which does not facilitate the traditional rebuild mode done in the HFNHL in the past...
 

The old geezer

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I am not saying we should give one time cash advance but we need to revisit the revenue meter. I don't think making $20M per season is enough to run HFNHL team and be competitive. Also, in order for a team to be competitive, they need to moderately deep into free agency and build their prospect pool and in order to do this, we need both cash and time.

Revenue meter does not help Hasnain, we've been through this. If we increased the meter 10% (assuming you could actually select the % you wanted which you can't) the bottom teams earn an extra $2M and the top team earns an extra $4M or so. The revenue meter only increases the difference between the rich and the poor that's why we, reluctantly, gave in to the flat $4.4M TV revenue so that we did not further agrivate the difference.

You know the interesting part about these debates (that happen EVERY year) is that each year that passes you have GM's from the from the formerly struggling teams that were saying it can't be done in the past telling the new guys in that situation how bad their teams were and how they did turn things around ;)
 

The old geezer

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Additionally, to be fair, most teams today have to meet the minimum OV rule which does not facilitate the traditional rebuild mode done in the HFNHL in the past...

One thing you'll learn in the Admin Team Adil is that some decisions need to be made to alter activity. I.e Wimsical decisions to rebuild are not encouraged and therefore making rule changes or revenue decisions etc. that make it less painful to rebuild are not in the leagues best interest.

Are there GM's that inherit shambles of teams? Yes but while it's not publicly known these are managed on a case by case basis and where necessary 'temporary' exceptions have been granted. The challenge is that there are more instances of GM's (I can name a couple of current one's now but won't) that just arbitrarily decide for various reasons to blow up playoff capable teams and we try to dissuade that. Are there one or two teams that possibly need help that is not of their own making? Yes. Do you relax the rules for 30 teams to help those one or two? No.
 

Wildman

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The challenge is that there are more instances of GM's (I can name a couple of current one's now but won't) that just arbitrarily decide for various reasons to blow up playoff capable teams and we try to dissuade that. Are there one or two teams that possibly need help that is not of their own making? Yes. Do you relax the rules for 30 teams to help those one or two? No.

Drew, I for one admit that I blew up my team and decided to rebuild from bottom up. I did this for for simple reason - NHL Cap. I had several players that were signed before the cap came and did not have a chance to be competitive in a long run so I decided to rebuild.

As for revenue meter, I am well aware of all the debates that took place last season and didn't want to comment anymore on this issue. But after seeing few post from Atlanta I feel that they need some help. Also, how do we expect them sign any incentive contract when they have a balance of below $2 million.
 

Hossa

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Additionally, to be fair, most teams today have to meet the minimum OV rule which does not facilitate the traditional rebuild mode done in the HFNHL in the past...

The minimum OV rule has been around for quite a few years now. Many teams (including my own and the Panthers for example) were rebuilt under the minimum OV rule.
 

Toronto_AGM_Adil

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One thing you'll learn in the Admin Team Adil is that some decisions need to be made to alter activity. I.e Wimsical decisions to rebuild are not encouraged and therefore making rule changes or revenue decisions etc. that make it less painful to rebuild are not in the leagues best interest.

Are there GM's that inherit shambles of teams? Yes but while it's not publicly known these are managed on a case by case basis and where necessary 'temporary' exceptions have been granted. The challenge is that there are more instances of GM's (I can name a couple of current one's now but won't) that just arbitrarily decide for various reasons to blow up playoff capable teams and we try to dissuade that. Are there one or two teams that possibly need help that is not of their own making? Yes. Do you relax the rules for 30 teams to help those one or two? No.

Let me clarify my point of view... I'm not for the traditional, tear it down and start from scratch approach to rebuilding... my statement was meant to reflect that by increasing the minimum OV (which would happen if we correlate it with the average OV) then the financially strapped, rebuild teams won't have the necessary cash on hand to successfully meet the minimum OV without compromising their future growth. Again, I don't want to promote the traditional rebuild philosophy, NHL teams today rebuild and while staying somewhat competitive and I believe the same should hold true for HFNHL teams. I'm pretty sure the minimum OV rule was meant to accomplish that, and it has led to a more competitive league.

Drew, you do bring up a good point... how do you disuade teams from blowing up a viable team, tanking and picking up low draft picks for a few years before even trying to compete. I think a good start is to make UFA season as competitive as possible and make the teams as competitive as possible (ie. minimum OV). If that means adjusting revenues (and I'm not saying we increase the revenue generator in the sim) so that the low end teams make alittle more money that would faciliate that goal.... rebuild teams could then afford to be more active in UFA season, they wouldn't have to build strictly from prospects, minimum OV would go up and the league would be more competitive... again these are just my thoughts, I'm not trying to force my opinions on anyone, just trying to facilitate some healthy discussion
 

Ville Isopaa

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I guess it's time for me to enter the discussion.

I'm currently working as a lawyer for the Finnish state at a board of appeals, so you know I'm a fair and trustworthy guy. :teach:

- I started out with the Hersey Bears of the HFAHL league and moved up quickly to become the AGM of Colorado. After a few years as an AGM Martin Trembley stepped down and I took over as the full time GM. I went for two playoff runs before finally having to trade in all the stars for whatever I could get for them just to keep the team alive. Back in 01-02 my top prospect was Mikhail Kuleshov. At one point I was already in the red financially and I had 1-2 weeks to turn it around and get the budget back on track. It was really tough to see the team being picked apart as I just had to move big names for whatever I could. So, I know how hard it is to rebuild with no money and no prospects to start with. Then, after about 3 seasons on the bottom, I was able to bring Colorado back to the playoffs, where I plan to keep the team with a better financial planning.

- My activity in the league has been on and off a bit depending mostly on internet access dring various periods in the past. However that's not a problem anymore. For the past few years I've been more active in the league and I'm ready to put down the time needed as an Admin.

- I've also been part of a few other HLS2/FHL leagues and been part of the admin team in two of them. I've done ratings, prepared the drafts, etc. so I know how much time these things can and will take.

Things that I'd like to get done in HFNHL.

1) Have our own ratings unless we can find better ones than DVHL.
2) Make it easier for the bottom teams to improve their teams without killing the budgets or selling off all the future. It can be done now, but it's a long process.
3) Have the endorsement requirements checked on a yearly basis.
4) Get the seasons to start in October instead of December(or later)


1) Have our own ratings unless we can find better ones than DVHL.
I'm not happy with the DVHL ratings, and while the re-ratings and challenges made them better, they are still off in my opinion on a lot of players. I would like to see the league have our own ratings and that they would be finished by the start of the FA's if possible. Then we could have rating challenges after FA's are done and have our season start on time. I know the work it takes to create ratings, I've done it from scratch once for a league based on DEL and also created the draft-egliable players for 5 round drafts as well. Even so, I'm ready to take on the task of creating HFNHL's own ratings in time for July 1st. I probably would need some help with that at some point, but so far there has seemed to be GM's ready to step up to the tasks when needed.

2) Make it easier for the bottom teams to improve their teams without killing the budgets or selling off all the future.

It can be done now, I know it, I've done it, but it's a long process. I think the OV-rule is a good one. It makes trading hard when you're close to it, but it also forces the GM's to dress a (somewhat) competitive team. It would be good to tie it to the OV-average of the league instead of having it as a fixed 70. OV is a better measure for the bottom teams than a salary floor would be. That would only lead to bigger contracts in the UFA's just to meet the salary floor requirements. NHL-salary re-signings help to keep players at a reasonable salary, but more can be done. Here are some suggestions:

a) Make full use of the free agency rules.
I noticed in the offseason that we've been using only rules for the Type I-III Free Agents, that is rookie contracts, restricted and Unrestricted Free Agents. However in the rules we also have Groups IV-VI which are "Defected Free Agents", "+10 year veterans earning less than league average" and "+25 year olds with less than 80 HFNHL games".
This fall there were several FA's that would have qualified for these categories and could have been on the free market to help teams that needed to add players to their roster instead of staying as depth/farm players on deeper teams or even on the prospect lists. I know it would take a bit more work to get these guys listed, but if started in time, it shouldn't be too much.

2) Introduce re-entry waivers.
I think it would be a good idea to have re-entry waivers in the HFNHL. It would give the bottom teams a chance to claim the guys that are now kept in farm when they are called up. There could be an exception to call up someone as an injury reserve in case of an injury, but to have re-entry on HFNHLers that are kept on the farmteam. The split cost of the contract would also help the team to pick up a guy with a bigger contract.

3) Allow bigger money transferes as salary compensation.
This could work in the intrest of the bottom teams in cases where they pick up a player with a salary that they normally wouldn't afford to pay for. They get the extra salary up front, which makes the financial issue a non-factor for the bottom team. While stocking overpaid players isn't always a good thing to do, it could help boost the OV and competition in the league, instead of the bottom teams being AHL-player quality and barely making the OV requirements. This should however not be a way for rich teams to buy draftpicks or prospects from the poor teams.

3) Have the endorsement requirements checked on a yearly basis.
Especially the Mountain Dew. I think I already said I'd be willing to do this, as I keep track of most junior and european leagues already.

4) Get the seasons to start in October instead of December(or later)
I guess the big issue has been the ratings. If we can have them done in July, there's nothing stopping us from starting on time.
 
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Wildman

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Ville, very nice article on the issue and I agree with all your points. However, Colorado was a bit different case because you had a quite a bit of talent with Forsburg, Jagr and other high profile players on your roster. I am just looking at Atlanta's roster and I see nothing that can be traded away for future and no money in the bank to acquire any players via free agency.

Also, before the cap we had waiver process where teams picked up few decent players to fill their roster needs. I know this is not part of NHL but it might help teams who are looking to fill the spot.

The question that always comes to my mind is how do we prevent this kind of problems for the future and based on what I have seen, the best way is to monitor all the trades that GM has made over few months rather than 1 trade at time.

It is just matter of time that we see the same Atlanta situation again with another team and I thnk we ar eon the way with couple of teams that heve depleted all their futures just to make playoffs this season.
 

Hossa

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It is just matter of time that we see the same Atlanta situation again with another team and I thnk we ar eon the way with couple of teams that heve depleted all their futures just to make playoffs this season.

But is this really the league's place to intervene, if a team mortgages their future to try and make the playoffs this season. It's rediculous to suggest that *anything* should be done by the league to help teams that make decisions like that.

If we're talking about the Atlanta situation from the perspective of new GMs taking over an old GM's mess, that's one issue. In another league I was in, when I took over my team, there were four of us taking over teams. For one thing there was a four-team dispersal draft (not always an option, but it could be), so that all four new GMs had the same chance, depending on their abilities, to field a competitive roster and/or stockpile young talent. And any team without at least 10M in the bank, saw their finances raised to that minimum standard. So if you're talking about helping out new GMs in bad situations, that's one issue, and there are solutions for that.

But if you're talking about GMs making bad decisions or rebuilding in a bad way, I think the suggestion of doing anything other than enforcing a minimum OV limit requiring them to stay at a certain level of competitiveness. If they (to steal Brian Burke's words) 'run their team into the sewer', then so be it, they should be removed by the league if it gets bad enough, and somebody new will start over. And at that point, we return to the other problem I talked about above.
 

Toronto_AGM_Adil

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1) Have our own ratings unless we can find better ones than DVHL.
I'm not happy with the DVHL ratings, and while the re-ratings and challenges made them better, they are still off in my opinion on a lot of players. I would like to see the league have our own ratings and that they would be finished by the start of the FA's if possible. Then we could have rating challenges after FA's are done and have our season start on time. I know the work it takes to create ratings, I've done it from scratch once for a league based on DEL and also created the draft-egliable players for 5 round drafts as well. Even so, I'm ready to take on the task of creating HFNHL's own ratings in time for July 1st. I probably would need some help with that at some point, but so far there has seemed to be GM's ready to step up to the tasks when needed.

I agree with you Ville that the current re-rating scheme is not perfect but creating ratings from scratch would be very time intensive. I've always been an advocate for stat based ratings. Either way, whether we decide to do re-rates, our own formula or ratings from scratch we need to pick one before the end of the season so that the new ratings would be in before october. Which ever way is decided I'll gladly help where I can, and I'm sure a few more GM's would as well.

OV is a better measure for the bottom teams than a salary floor would be. That would only lead to bigger contracts in the UFA's just to meet the salary floor requirements.

I'm not suggesting we should enforce a salary floor, but merely allow any team to at least field a financially viable franchise at 35M rather then 20M. The reason for this is to make up for the 300M salary gap between the NHL and the HFNHL in order to facilitate the parity between NHL salaries and HFNHL salaries. I believe if we raise the minimum OV, lower tier teams will have to carry more talent on their rosters and the salary floor would increase (just how you've said) however I don't know if those teams could still remain financial viable if that happened.

NHL-salary re-signings help to keep players at a reasonable salary, but more can be done. Here are some suggestions:

a) Make full use of the free agency rules.
I noticed in the offseason that we've been using only rules for the Type I-III Free Agents, that is rookie contracts, restricted and Unrestricted Free Agents. However in the rules we also have Groups IV-VI which are "Defected Free Agents", "+10 year veterans earning less than league average" and "+25 year olds with less than 80 HFNHL games".
This fall there were several FA's that would have qualified for these categories and could have been on the free market to help teams that needed to add players to their roster instead of staying as depth/farm players on deeper teams or even on the prospect lists. I know it would take a bit more work to get these guys listed, but if started in time, it shouldn't be too much.


Well, I think the problems with groups IV-VI is that they are usually based on circumstances that are somewhat uncontrollable by the owning team. Implementing these rules would be tricky and would require a lot of discussion...

3) Allow bigger money transferes as salary compensation.
This could work in the intrest of the bottom teams in cases where they pick up a player with a salary that they normally wouldn't afford to pay for. They get the extra salary up front, which makes the financial issue a non-factor for the bottom team. While stocking overpaid players isn't always a good thing to do, it could help boost the OV and competition in the league, instead of the bottom teams being AHL-player quality and barely making the OV requirements. This should however not be a way for rich teams to buy draftpicks or prospects from the poor teams.

I agree that larger money transfers would help some teams, however I don't know how you can prevent teams from selling long-term assets (like prospects/picks) considering that the buying team is already taking a large contract on their hands and they'll be unwilling to move more cash in the process unless futures are included.

3) Have the endorsement requirements checked on a yearly basis.
Especially the Mountain Dew. I think I already said I'd be willing to do this, as I keep track of most junior and european leagues already.

I agree with this 100%. Maybe we should think about the endorsement related to a percentage performance of the peak performance of the entire league (ie. top 30 in goals, or maybe top 30 in points) That way we don't have to adjust the endorsement every year.
 

Brock

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I agree with you Ville that the current re-rating scheme is not perfect but creating ratings from scratch would be very time intensive. I've always been an advocate for stat based ratings. Either way, whether we decide to do re-rates, our own formula or ratings from scratch we need to pick one before the end of the season so that the new ratings would be in before october. Which ever way is decided I'll gladly help where I can, and I'm sure a few more GM's would as well.

This is one issue I completely disagree with. I'm strongly against a purely stat based rating system. In the other FHL league I'm in, they use a stat based rating system every year. And the ratings are absolutely terrible (MXFHL if anyone is curious to see). It's the old cliche that stats aren't everything. Also, the stats based rating system really makes life difficult for teams who've had a season ending injury to one of their players. If Alex Ovechkin gets injured in the NHL, tears a knee ligament, plays 5 games, he'd be rated for those 5 games and it would ultimately really hurt the HFNHL franchise.

If Ville wants to do the rating system from scratch, I'd be willing to help. Hell I redid every forwards DF, SK, and LD this offseason. But I really think the stats based rating systems are really bad, even though in theory you'd think theyd work out well.
 

PasiK

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If Ville wants to do the rating system from scratch, I'd be willing to help. Hell I redid every forwards DF, SK, and LD this offseason. But I really think the stats based rating systems are really bad, even though in theory you'd think theyd work out well.

Good work .. this season rerates are better than original DVHL.

I am with Ville if he wants to do new rerates. DVHL ratings have some attributes which are ok and some which need to be changed. So maybe we should use DVHL rerates for some attributes and then make a formula which we use for others.

But GMs need to know how the ratings will be given (formulas need to be available for all as soon as possible).
 

SPG

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This is one issue I completely disagree with. I'm strongly against a purely stat based rating system. In the other FHL league I'm in, they use a stat based rating system every year. And the ratings are absolutely terrible (MXFHL if anyone is curious to see). It's the old cliche that stats aren't everything. Also, the stats based rating system really makes life difficult for teams who've had a season ending injury to one of their players. If Alex Ovechkin gets injured in the NHL, tears a knee ligament, plays 5 games, he'd be rated for those 5 games and it would ultimately really hurt the HFNHL franchise.

If Ville wants to do the rating system from scratch, I'd be willing to help. Hell I redid every forwards DF, SK, and LD this offseason. But I really think the stats based rating systems are really bad, even though in theory you'd think theyd work out well.

I'll keep my response short... but I'm in complete agreement with you, Brock.
 

Hossa

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I'll keep my response short... but I'm in complete agreement with you, Brock.

Same here.

Most of the contested ratings every year (including this year based on the DVHL pack) are categories that statistics wouldn't alone account for. We've had this discussion before.
 

Toronto_AGM_Adil

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This is one issue I completely disagree with. I'm strongly against a purely stat based rating system. In the other FHL league I'm in, they use a stat based rating system every year. And the ratings are absolutely terrible (MXFHL if anyone is curious to see). It's the old cliche that stats aren't everything. Also, the stats based rating system really makes life difficult for teams who've had a season ending injury to one of their players. If Alex Ovechkin gets injured in the NHL, tears a knee ligament, plays 5 games, he'd be rated for those 5 games and it would ultimately really hurt the HFNHL franchise.

I didn't mean to start up the whole argument of which rating system to use (my fault for stating my preference), I was only trying to say that these decisions need to be made before the end of the season in order to ensure the next season starts on time. If the concensus after discussion is a full rerate then I'll help however I can with that, again as long as we get those rerates done as soon as possible.

If Ville wants to do the rating system from scratch, I'd be willing to help. Hell I redid every forwards DF, SK, and LD this offseason. But I really think the stats based rating systems are really bad, even though in theory you'd think theyd work out well.

I'm well aware of the objections towards stat based ratings but I still think statistics is at least a good starting point for ratings. Again, I'll help however I can and I'm sure others will be willing to volunteer time as well.
 

Ville Isopaa

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Well, I think the problems with groups IV-VI is that they are usually based on circumstances that are somewhat uncontrollable by the owning team. Implementing these rules would be tricky and would require a lot of discussion...

Group IV and V are basicly non-existent today as the UFA age has been lowered, so I think we can scratch those as.
As for Group VI, it's actually the one free agent group that you can control as a GM. You have to play your +25 year old forwards for 80 HFNHL games or goalies for 28 games or they become UFA instead of RFA.
This also means that Group I FA's (aka prospects) become UFA's at the age of 25 if they are unsigned, as Group I is limited to players under 25 years old. Just like the current rules say.
 

MatthewFlames

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I think that whenever we talk about any rules changes we have to consider first and foremost "is this within the realm of administration possibilities?" which is a huge concern when it comes to implementing new things into the league or changing the way it all works.

Every new wrinkle and layer requires someone to take care of it. We just don't want to add in too much extra work because the league will become bogged down in constant administration duty that may not get done if at any time life takes over for the folks in the admin team.

Like the HFAHL that was tried before, and making sweeping changes to the rules and systems as some are offering, is that it can become a nightmare and take away from the fundamental duty of the league - which is to provide entertainment and fantasy fulfilment.

Obviously admin isn't always fun - but it can be if done right. For example I'm really enjoying the simming duties - its given me a way better insight and connection with some GM's - allowed me to be far more aware of what other teams are all about - and therefore increased my knowledge of the league and its players - and has been very rewarding so far.

Anyway - my main point here is that IT ISN'T BROKEN - the whole HF is a huge success and let's make changes conservatively right now because it just ain't broke.

I think the HF is in a very strong position because it is a league with very strong GM's, and TWO very strong Executive teams - those who have been carrying this league and those of us stepping up now - but we must always make choices that increase the strength of that league and not weaken it just for the sake of making us more NHL like or for appeasing a few GM's who are struggling financially or GM's who are unhappy with their ratings.

With that said I know we have discussions every year about the financial situation and the ratings - and all I can say about that is - GOOD. It shows how passionate GM's are and promotes the health of the league.

Here is my take on the issues:

RATINGS:

I think the system we have now is the best pitch out there. We use the basics of the DVHL ratings with a small team that addresses the weaknesses of the those ratings and then we allow GM's to challenge. I also disagree with a stats based ratings system.

WHY?: Time & Effort and consistency. This is by far the biggest single chunk of work and even if we have the GM's who insist they will do the work, the reality is that if something happens and life intervenes for those GM's we are screwed (and trust me, even if we have a handful of GM's do our ratings, every one of the other GM's will have an issue with the ratings of their teams!).

While I know that DF ratings were an issue this year, they affected EVERYONE, so in effect they affected nobody adversely. The playing field was level. What we need to fix is the timing, and with the new bodies we can do that. Once we get ratings done earlier, then we have more time to do more challenges and challenges are really the way for GM's to fix the inequities they feel that they may have.

I am against a stats based system because of the injury factor and because often a team will have a bad year, while an individual player will have a good one. Should that player be penalized his DF stat because he was a minus player, which really wasn't his fault since he actually made the all-star team?

FINANCES:

The finances of the league are still a bit off. I still maintain that every year, even with all the extra revenue, the playoff revenue, endorsements, that the amount of $$ within the league is actually less every year. That said, I've managed to stabilize my finances and many GM's have before. I was pretty hot under the collar last year when I was struggling and having to trade away prospects for $$, but I was lucky enough that the plan I put in place worked.

SOLUTIONS: I would look at the proposals for new GM's of cash strapped teams to get a $$ infusion when they take over, but at no more than a small amount to keep the franchise viable for the very short term, and only on teams really in trouble because of bad financial management in the past. If the team has a 44 million dollar player budget etc I would lean more towards insisting the GM deal with the problem.

I also think the present track of TV revenue in the off-season needs to be addressed again because it keeps the amount of money within the league the same.

What I would propose is to set that $$ figure in the following way: establish the amount of money needed in the league. Perhaps even set it at the total amount in all the bank accounts at the end of 06/07. At the end of 07/08 - we look at how much money the league 'lost'. Total that up - and divide by 30. What you get is the same amount of money in the league. We'll never go bankrupt as a league, but that doesn't stop individual teams from suffering if GM's make bad choices.

EXAMPLE:
End of 06/07 - Total League $$ = 600 million.
End of 07/08 - Total Leauge $$ = 480 million.
Difference: 120 million.
Each team gets 4 million.

That is just an example - and I've not thought out the probabilities this will work or how it may fail us - lol - so maybe someone can shoot holes in it.

I also think the endorsements needs to have a serious discussion about an over-haul of both its system and structure and viability as I'm not convinced its working in its attended manner, but I think this is a discussion for the next off-season.

In the end the financial part of the HFNHL is actually one of the major features that makes being a GM a challenge and therefore adds to its interest. It keeps the league competitive and ensures responsibility on behalf of the GM's - believe it or not - and it was when this was pointed out to me last year that realized I was the one who needed to change my attitude about the finances.

Add to that fact that the Sim software just doesn't have very much flexibility and we have to work within that and within keeping admin down and keeping things competitive.

FREE AGENCY:

Group IV and V are basicly non-existent today as the UFA age has been lowered, so I think we can scratch those as.
As for Group VI, it's actually the one free agent group that you can control as a GM. You have to play your +25 year old forwards for 80 HFNHL games or goalies for 28 games or they become UFA instead of RFA.
This also means that Group I FA's (aka prospects) become UFA's at the age of 25 if they are unsigned, as Group I is limited to players under 25 years old. Just like the current rules say.

We need to look into the free agency situation (as far as the rulebook is concerned - since we are not implementing it to its fullest detail as it is and maybe we just remove certain Groups if we don't use them)

I have to admit the more I think about it - the more Ville has a good point on the Group I. It would take very little admin.

I'm not sure about the others because I think the admin of it would be a tough slog.

What I like about Ville's suggestion in the post above is that it will allow rebuilding teams a little more opportunity but not really hurt established teams - and not re-address it so much that rebuilding becomes a breeze and everyones doing it.

It would be easy to implement and administer as well. One of the things I think is key is to keep rosters down, keep minor signings down (I know I've been guilty) and keep control of the admin time for the agents, sim manager, DOPP etc when it comes to constant signings of players who have little change of being NHL regulars.
 
Last edited:

Brock

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
12,285
4,001
The GTA
ohlprospects.blogspot.com
FINANCES:

The finances of the league are still a bit off. I still maintain that every year, even with all the extra revenue, the playoff revenue, endorsements, that the amount of $$ within the league is actually less every year. That said, I've managed to stabilize my finances and many GM's have before. I was pretty hot under the collar last year when I was struggling and having to trade away prospects for $$, but I was lucky enough that the plan I put in place worked.

SOLUTIONS: I would look at the proposals for new GM's of cash strapped teams to get a $$ infusion when they take over, but at no more than a small amount to keep the franchise viable for the very short term, and only on teams really in trouble because of bad financial management in the past. If the team has a 44 million dollar player budget etc I would lean more towards insisting the GM deal with the problem.

I also think the present track of TV revenue in the off-season needs to be addressed again because it keeps the amount of money within the league the same.

What I would propose is to set that $$ figure in the following way: establish the amount of money needed in the league. Perhaps even set it at the total amount in all the bank accounts at the end of 06/07. At the end of 07/08 - we look at how much money the league 'lost'. Total that up - and divide by 30. What you get is the same amount of money in the league. We'll never go bankrupt as a league, but that doesn't stop individual teams from suffering if GM's make bad choices.

EXAMPLE:
End of 06/07 - Total League $$ = 600 million.
End of 07/08 - Total Leauge $$ = 480 million.
Difference: 120 million.
Each team gets 4 million.

That is just an example - and I've not thought out the probabilities this will work or how it may fail us - lol - so maybe someone can shoot holes in it.

That sounds like a genius idea to me.
 

MatthewFlames

Registered User
Jul 21, 2003
4,713
840
'Murica
Thanks. And of course if I am wrong - and the league has more money at the end of a season - then I think every GM should turn in money into an escrow account and send it to me. In real dollars of course. :sarcasm:
 

Toronto_AGM_Adil

Registered User
Apr 9, 2006
337
9
I think that whenever we talk about any rules changes we have to consider first and foremost "is this within the realm of administration possibilities?" which is a huge concern when it comes to implementing new things into the league or changing the way it all works.

Every new wrinkle and layer requires someone to take care of it. We just don't want to add in too much extra work because the league will become bogged down in constant administration duty that may not get done if at any time life takes over for the folks in the admin team.

You're absolutely right in this Matt... although some of us may be willing to put time in now we can't guarantee that this will always be the case and therefor we should work towards making a sustainable set of admin responsibilites so that the next generation of admin team won't be overloaded with admin work.

I am against a stats based system because of the injury factor and because often a team will have a bad year, while an individual player will have a good one. Should that player be penalized his DF stat because he was a minus player, which really wasn't his fault since he actually made the all-star team?

Okay, keep in mind that DVHL is a stat based ratings system so we are currently using stat based ratings followed by re-rating based on expert opinions and challenges. Now, if you want to continue using DVHL for the stat rating base then that's fine, we can go ahead and continue using it and do our rerates as normal... My suggestions is though that rather than using DVHL as the stat base we should atleast consider making our own stat formula... why make our own formulas? because we'll have a better state base to start the rerates from and maybe in the future it'll reduce the number of rerates. I hate +/- as well, you don't need it to calculate DF, there are much better statistics to use. Also, the 3 year stat rule is meant to aliviate the problem of injuries, however there's nothing stopping us from keeping track of injuries and using the rerate process to adjust for those (that's pretty much what happens with DVHL ratings anyways... a player gets a crap rating due to injury, we rerate him back up)

The finances of the league are still a bit off. I still maintain that every year, even with all the extra revenue, the playoff revenue, endorsements, that the amount of $$ within the league is actually less every year. That said, I've managed to stabilize my finances and many GM's have before. I was pretty hot under the collar last year when I was struggling and having to trade away prospects for $$, but I was lucky enough that the plan I put in place worked.

SOLUTIONS: I would look at the proposals for new GM's of cash strapped teams to get a $$ infusion when they take over, but at no more than a small amount to keep the franchise viable for the very short term, and only on teams really in trouble because of bad financial management in the past. If the team has a 44 million dollar player budget etc I would lean more towards insisting the GM deal with the problem.

I also think the present track of TV revenue in the off-season needs to be addressed again because it keeps the amount of money within the league the same.

What I would propose is to set that $$ figure in the following way: establish the amount of money needed in the league. Perhaps even set it at the total amount in all the bank accounts at the end of 06/07. At the end of 07/08 - we look at how much money the league 'lost'. Total that up - and divide by 30. What you get is the same amount of money in the league. We'll never go bankrupt as a league, but that doesn't stop individual teams from suffering if GM's make bad choices.

EXAMPLE:
End of 06/07 - Total League $$ = 600 million.
End of 07/08 - Total Leauge $$ = 480 million.
Difference: 120 million.
Each team gets 4 million.

That is just an example - and I've not thought out the probabilities this will work or how it may fail us - lol - so maybe someone can shoot holes in it.

I also think the endorsements needs to have a serious discussion about an over-haul of both its system and structure and viability as I'm not convinced its working in its attended manner, but I think this is a discussion for the next off-season.

In the end the financial part of the HFNHL is actually one of the major features that makes being a GM a challenge and therefore adds to its interest. It keeps the league competitive and ensures responsibility on behalf of the GM's - believe it or not - and it was when this was pointed out to me last year that realized I was the one who needed to change my attitude about the finances.

Add to that fact that the Sim software just doesn't have very much flexibility and we have to work within that and within keeping admin down and keeping things competitive.

Okay, I like the idea of dynamically adjusting revenues based on the year-end result as compared to the previous years. My only suggestion is rather then adjust revenue based on the previous HFNHL season, maybe we should look to adjust revenue as it relates to the NHL... I know you can't do that interms of profit, however you could do it in terms of payroll expenses... maybe we can align HFNHL payroll's with NHL payrolls...

Keep in mind, every year the NHL grows, we need to show revenue growth as well...
 

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