Kings News: And your new head coach is...

[johnjm22]

They've had 4 coaches in that time frame (Therrien, Bylsma, Johnston, Sullivan) and the Kings are moving on to their 4th coach as well entering next season, after Crawford, Murray and Sutter.

5 coaches since Crosby has been there. 2 cups in 12 years.

That's some nice cheery picking you're doing with the Pens. They were often handicapped by an injured Crosby's cap hit. They couldn't do anything long term to address that situation, because they were banking on him coming back.

Crosby has missed one playoffs due to injury. I'm just curious why you feel the Kings group is weak and the Pens group isn't. Both times the Pens won they had to make coaching changes to get there. Or maybe I'm wrong and you think the Pens group is also weak? That would be consistent view.

I can cherry pick too, how many coaches has Chicago had over the last 10 years? Does Quenneville suddenly suck, or have Toews, Seabrook, etc. simply not performed up to their contracts?

I never said Sutter sucked. I think he's great. Good coaches get fired all the time. It's a natural cycle. Things get stale, so you have to make a change.

Sutter is great. This group of players isn't "weak". Both of these statements can be true.

 

[johnjm22]

Do teams changing coaches every 2.4 years ever win anything?

Penguins have had 5 coaches in 12 years. That's a 2.4 average.

 

[KINGS17]

5
Crosby has missed one playoffs due to injury. I'm just curious why you feel the Kings group is weak and the Pens group isn't. Both times the Pens won they had to make coaching changes to get there. Or maybe I'm wrong and you think the Pens group is also weak? That would be consistent view.

Pens supporting cast was extremely weak following their first cup.

A lot of that was due to not having enough cap space to get Crosby and Malkin the help they needed to compete for cups, which was due to the Crosby and Malkin contracts.

The same is true of the Kings right now, except Kopitar isn't performing to the level of Crosby or Malkin and never will. Yet he is paid as if he will.

No doubt a coaching change can jump start a talented squad if the players have the desire. The Kings are no longer a talented roster and some players don't seem to have the desire.

 

[KINGS17]

Penguins have had 5 coaches in 12 years. That's a 2.4 average.

Again you can cherry pick the Penguins, but why ignore the Blackhawks?

The Penguins have Crosby and Malkin. The Kings don't anything close to these two players.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I think this is a good hire. He knows the team, the players in the minors and he paid his dues being assistant all these years (could have easily left).

 

[johnjm22]

Pens supporting cast was extremely weak following their first cup.

A lot of that was due to not having enough cap space to get Crosby and Malkin the help they needed to compete for cups, which was due to the Crosby and Malkin contracts.

The same is true of the Kings right now, except Kopitar isn't performing to the level of Crosby or Malkin and never will. Yet he is paid as if he will.

No doubt a coaching change can jump start a talented squad if the players have the desire. The Kings are no longer a talented roster and some players don't seem to have the desire.

Again you can cherry pick the Penguins, but why ignore the Blackhawks?

The Penguins have Crosby and Malkin. The Kings don't anything close to these two players.

The Pens core is smaller and more talented than the Kings core. Crosby/Malkin/Letang vs. Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Carter/Brown. I don't include Kessel because they weren't around for the first cup.

Both cores have done really well. Each winning two cups. I just don't understand why one is considered weak and the other isn't. Especially when the Pens group has had more coaching changes, and you equated coaching changes to players being weak.

You asked if any team that's had a coaching change every 2.4 years is successful. The answer is yes. The Blackhawks have done really well, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-coach-stevens-20170423-story.html

A glance at Stevens’ coaching record with the Philadelphia Flyers shows he’s not allergic to scoring. He succeeded Ken Hitchcock nine games into the 2006-07 season and the team finished with 214 goals scored and 303 against. Those numbers improved to 248 goals for and 233 against in 2007-08 and a trip to the East final. The Flyers scored 264 goals and allowed 238 in 2008-09 before losing in the first round to the eventual champion Pittsburgh Penguins. Stevens was fired 25 games into the 2009-10 season after the Flyers had lost six of seven games, but it soon became public that goaltender Ray Emery had been playing with an injury that required surgery, undermining the team’s efforts.

Stevens will hire assistants to replace himself and to replace Davis Payne, who was relieved of his duties. An offense-minded aide would fit in nicely. And as noted here before, goaltending coach Bill Ranford will stay, and that’s good.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No reason to think Stevens is a clone of Sutter or Murray just because he was an assistant under them. It's not even his voice in the room as an assistant.

Stevens got 161 goals out of his top 6 goal scoring forwards in 07-08, and 192 in 08-09. The Kings had 110 from the top 6 goal scorers this year. There were a few more goals scored around the league back in 2008 and 2009, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[deeshamrock]

No reason to think Stevens is a clone of Sutter or Murray just because he was an assistant under them. It's not even his voice in the room as an assistant.

Stevens got 161 goals out of his top 6 goal scoring forwards in 07-08, and 192 in 08-09. The Kings had 110 from the top 6 goal scorers this year. There were a few more goals scored around the league back in 2008 and 2009, but we'll see how it goes.

He's not. I get that because he was Sutter's and Murray's assistant and they had stifling defense style, you might assume that. But he's nothing like either of them, philosophy wise.

He was the last good Flyers coach (and my favorite) and fired way too soon. He was a good coach with an uptempo offensive style and a great PP. He was a players coach and he's lone fault was that he was a bit to green and young, with a lot of very young players on the team and didn't crack down on them when he should have. Snider, who never had patience, couldn't appreciate all that STevens did and how he turned the team around. I wasn't happy with Lavvy and glad to see him get the boot.

BEst of luck to JS, wish he'd have been hired by Hexy. If Blake can move the right pieces out and they draft well, JS will do fine.

 

[KINGS17]

The Pens core is smaller and more talented than the Kings core. Crosby/Malkin/Letang vs. Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Carter/Brown. I don't include Kessel because they weren't around for the first cup.

Both cores have done really well. Each winning two cups. I just don't understand why one is considered weak and the other isn't. Especially when the Pens group has had more coaching changes, and you equated coaching changes to players being weak.

You asked if any team that's had a coaching change every 2.4 years is successful. The answer is yes. The Blackhawks have done really well, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

I didn't equate a core being weak to coaching changes in all cases. I think the Kings core is weak in terms of leadership, and it has resulted in some coaching changes.

The fact Sutter was with the Kings for 5 years is a tribute to Sutter, and the tough minded vets who have since left the team.

Quick is the only remaining player with the kind of mental toughness it takes to win it all. That's my opinion, your's may differ.

The core of the Penguins according to your post is a cap hit of $25.45M. Add in Kessel and Matt Murray (next season) to make it fair and you have a cap hit of $36M.

The core you identified for the Kings has a cap hit of $34.148M. That's almost half the cap paid to 5 players. Throw in Gaborik and Doughty's raise in a couple of seasons and you can see a real problem.

While the percentage of the cap hit spent on the "top 5" players is about equal, the production is not.

When your top guy is making a cap hit of $10M a season, he better be one of the best in the NHL. The Penguins have two of the best in the NHL.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Press conference now. These questions are dreadful.

 

[kingskring]

Good so far.

 

[KINGS17]

Press conference now. These questions are dreadful.

Let me guess. Jim Hill asking something about how becoming the coach of the Kings and following Sutter is like Mike Brown following Phil Jackson.

Or maybe Jim had his A-game going today and brought up the Dodgers. How does it feel to replace a legend? I bet you hope it goes as well for you as when Lasorda took over for Walter Alston.

 

[theMajor]

I didn't equate a core being weak to coaching changes in all cases. I think the Kings core is weak in terms of leadership, and it has resulted in some coaching changes.

who? and what evidence other than your opinion? not saying you're wrong or that I disagree, genuinely curious

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Let me guess. Jim Hill asking something about how becoming the coach of the Kings and following Sutter is like Mike Brown following Phil Jackson.

Or maybe Jim had his A-game going today and brought up the Dodgers. How does it feel to replace a legend? I bet you hope it goes as well for you as when Lasorda took over for Walter Alston.

 

[BigKing]

who? and what evidence other than your opinion? not saying you're wrong or that I disagree, genuinely curious

There was a strong sentiment going into 2012 that the Kopitar/Brown leadership combo didn't have what it takes, hence the trade for Richards with his "intangibles" being a big part of why DL loved him.

Of course, Brown was a machine in the 2012 playoffs and Kopitar has performed tremendously in 2012 and '14.

Exit Stoll/Williams/Mitchell/Richards/Regher and basically Greene and we have the past two seasons of choking down the stretch in '16 and then the horror of this season. This last season featured similar play to the kind of play that got Terry Murray fired so, if you buy in to the idea that these guys quit on two coaches, then the leadership can be questioned.

It's an opinion since it can't be confirmed that leadership is weak at this point. All you can do is form that hypothesis and then try to support it with facts. The case can definitely be made. I mean, let's just take a look at Iginla being the only guy with balls at the end of the season.

 

[KINGS17]

who? and what evidence other than your opinion? not saying you're wrong or that I disagree, genuinely curious

It is clearly my opinion.

The only evidence I have are the same quotes from Kopitar, Brown, and Doughty we have all read through the years. Doughty needs to grow up and gain some maturity. Kopitar needs to stop talking about how if everyone plays well, no one needs to play great.

Brown, well I give Brown credit he has busted his ass to be in the best shape possible, and he gives a solid effort, but the wear and tear on him due to his style are evident.

In terms of leadership, I look at a guy like Quick and he has the swagger, a confident attitude, and he backs it up. I look at Kopitar and I see a guy who shrugs and doesn't seem to know how to lead.

If you want an eye test or stats. The Kings in 2012-2014 rarely lost a game if they led entering the 3rd period. Since that time, this leadership group doesn't seem to know how to get it done when leading entering the 3rd period.

 

[theMajor]

It is clearly my opinion.

The only evidence I have are the same quotes from Kopitar, Brown, and Doughty we have all read through the years. Doughty needs to grow up and gain some maturity. Kopitar needs to stop talking about how if everyone plays well, no one needs to play great.

Brown, well I give Brown credit he has busted his ass to be in the best shape possible, and he gives a solid effort, but the wear and tear on him due to his style are evident.

In terms of leadership, I look at a guy like Quick and he has the swagger, a confident attitude, and he backs it up. I look at Kopitar and I see a guy who shrugs and doesn't seem to know how to lead.

If you want an eye test or stats. The Kings in 2012-2014 rarely lost a game if they led entering the 3rd period. Since that time, this leadership group doesn't seem to know how to get it done when leading entering the 3rd period.

to a large extent, I usually judge leadership ability by on-ice play and the will to 'lead by example' but even I know that the locker room environment is totally different and there are leaders on teams that you wouldnt necessarily see just from looking at a team from the outside. take Greene for example, not the best dman on the team by a long shot but widely regarded as a heart-and-soul leader on the Kings. Quick is obvious; he always gives it everything he's got when the team collapses around him and is the consummate pro and competitor. as for Doughty, he seems to genuinely care about winning and his effort isnt ever really in question (to me at least). hes a bit immature but keep in mind he's what, 26? 27? I think Brown shares a lot of the same fiery passion that Quick does, but like you said, his body is just worn down. that really just leaves me with Kopitar.hes gotten a lot of criticism about his quote re:Sutter's unsustainable,much-too-physical style of hockey, and he might have been a little too candid with his thoughts but I dont think hes wrong and I certainly dont hold him saying that against him. does that one quote take away from his leadership ability? most pros would say "we just werent good enough" and you'd certainly expect your captain to take more responsibility for failing, but he's human and he has a point. I dont think he'd be given the captaincy if he wasnt a leader. I dunno, I feel like there are a lot of leaders on this team still, even without the JDubs' and Mitchell's and Stoll's. this is the same core that came back from 0-3 against the Sharks and won 3 game 7's en route to their 2nd cup in 3 seasons. to write off the last few years of failing and subsequent coaching changes on lack of leadership is crazy to me

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[Reclamation Project]

Please, no credit where credit is due.

 

[KINGS17]

This isn't the same core that came back from 0-3 down to beat the Sharks in 7 games.

Gone are Stoll, Greene, Williams, Mitchell, Regehr, and yes Richards. These players were all guts leaders. I don't think I ever heard any of them discuss needing more help on their line, or anything other than they themselves or the entire team had to bring their best effort in the next game.

Drew Doughty is 27 years old. How much longer do we have to wait for him to grow up a little more?

Then you have Kopi with his, "If everyone plays well, no one has to play great.", comment. This inspires no one. I can assure you. Now, I will give Kopitar full marks for his play in the San Jose series. He was a beast, and there was a glimmer of leadership in that at least.

Maybe he can grow into his new role. He better, or the Kings aren't going much further than the 1st round for quite some time.

 

[KINGS17]

This is good news. I think Blake is intelligent. His boss?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is good news. I think Blake is intelligent. His boss?

I don't know about Luc's work behind the scenes, all I know is that he was brought in by Tim Leiweke to work on the business side around 2007 and has moved up the ranks since then.

He's the reason why Pat Brisson got into the business, and he's probably the most powerful man in the sport. I would think that Luc might have learned something about the business side from his years as a player and his work behind the scenes up until his most recent promotion.

In terms of making hockey decisions, we don't know his approach, but I would think that both him and Rob Blake want to build a championship caliber team, and they have learned from the best over the years.

I'm just more hopeful of what lies ahead now than I was last offseason. Last offseason a few of us knew this season was bound to be a disaster, and that's exactly how it turned out. So far, Blake has said all the right things and isn't sugarcoating exactly what is wrong with this team. Same goes with Stevens.

These guys are well aware and have repeated every one of the concerns we had when it comes to how this team performed last season, not going into the "hard" areas, playing the perimeter and relying too heavily on point shots, etc.

We have a draft lottery to look forward to this Saturday, the expansion draft, the entry draft, and free agency all in the upcoming three months. Plenty of time for Blake and his staff to prep for the offseason, and thus far he seems to be addressing the lack of prospects by restocking the cupboard by signing free agent prospects.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Obviously I have to see it in action to believe it, but I love the focus on attack the middle and be quicker in transition.

This isn't the same core that came back from 0-3 down to beat the Sharks in 7 games.

Gone are Stoll, Greene, Williams, Mitchell, Regehr, and yes Richards. These players were all guts leaders. I don't think I ever heard any of them discuss needing more help on their line, or anything other than they themselves or the entire team had to bring their best effort in the next game.

Drew Doughty is 27 years old. How much longer do we have to wait for him to grow up a little more?

Then you have Kopi with his, "If everyone plays well, no one has to play great.", comment. This inspires no one. I can assure you. Now, I will give Kopitar full marks for his play in the San Jose series. He was a beast, and there was a glimmer of leadership in that at least.

Maybe he can grow into his new role. He better, or the Kings aren't going much further than the 1st round for quite some time.

I think with Kopi, he's a leader by example and production. No one is going to question his leadership when we're winning and he's scoring at a Malkin-Conn-Smythe pace; but many are going to (and I can't blame you) place blame with him when he's wearing the C and has his worst season. He's never going to be a fiery leader/banger, but think Mats Sundin.

Now some of the other guys are more visibly fiery, and others we know are valuable behind the scenes--Greene, MItchell, for example--but in my opinion, it's more we had a full collection of absolutely beastmode leaders than the idea that Kopitar/Doughty aren't leaders on their own. The 2014 team was skilled, but Mitchell, Regehr, Stoll weren't outskilling people, right? Just a murderer's row of guts and will when you throw in guys like Williams, Richards, and so on. To me, that doesn't make Kopitar less of a leader just because those guys have departed or withered on their own. What makes Kopitar less of a leader is when he stops playing his game/doing what's made him successful to this point which is what happened for lots of last year (and we'll likely find out tomorrow if he has a procedure or not as per Rosen).

Honestly? I think a lot of it is simply personal perception. A ton of people loved it when carter called this team fragile; how would the reaction have been if Kopitar said that? Rhetorical question.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Great interview with Blake. He even jokes about his past contract negotiation with the Kings.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2017/04/blake-on-whats-ahead-for-kopitar-gaborik-lombardi-iginla/

On if he is anticipating any contract issues with Tyler Toffoli:
“I don’t know, there are issues with everybody’s contracts. I’m probably one to speak. [Laughter]. I think you know, with what Pat [Brisson], Luc [Robitaille] and I experienced through Anze [Kopitar’s negotiations] too, there’s a familiarity of what limits are – you know, ‘Hey listen, let’s get down and other stuff out and get this deal done.’ So yeah, Toffoli [Tyler] and Pearson [Tanner] they’re priorities right away here to get done.”