Post-Game Talk: An unenthusiastic PGT - Predators 6, Jets 5

[Ippenator]

Merely pointing out that it's rather rich to tell someone to contact naturalstattrick when that person, unlike you, were correct when it came to the minutes played.

That was already in my second post where I mentioned about the exact minutes. And there I anyway admitted that after all the 2nd line had some seconds more of ice time against Josi. Not much more than the 3rd line. Still the first line played much less against Josi. And both, the 1st line and the 2nd line got trashed by Josi, while the 3rd line shut down Josi and scored a goal against him. My main point was anyway that Stastny’s line didn’t really have so easy matchups as some people here tried to claim. And that Josi absolutely killed the two top lines while Stastny’s line was not at all killed by him, although Ducky10 claiming that Josi killed practically everyone of the Jets last night. Just corrected that false claim.

 

[Ducky10]

That was already in my second post where I mentioned about the exact minutes. And there I anyway admitted that after all the 2nd line had some seconds more of ice time against Josi. Not much more than the 3rd line. Still the first line played much less against Josi. And both, the 1st line and the 2nd line got trashed by Josi, while the 3rd line shut down Josi and scored a goal against him. My main point was anyway that Stastny’s line didn’t really have so easy matchups as some people here tried to claim. And that Josi absolutely killed the two top lines while Stastny’s line was not at all killed by him, although Ducky10 claiming that Josi killed practically everyone of the Jets last night. Just corrected that false claim.

I said Josi killed pretty much everyone last night, meaning not just the forward lines. I did not quote +/- at all, you are free to do so if you wish, it matters little to me.

 

[Ippenator]

Our forward lines or their TOI was not the difference in the game last night, for those who need that pointed out.

It for sure was part of the problem. Only a biased follower can really say that the first and second line forwards didn’t have an atrocious game defensively last night. Only Roslovic gets kind of a pass from me on this. But especially Wheeler and Little were very bad defensively, just themselves, even though for sure the Jets defencemen were really bad too, despite Buff and Morrissey.

But seriously the positional play from Wheeler and Little both was unbelievably bad, and also Little’s effort was nowhere near to what it should be (of course if he was already getting ill, that could explain it in that game). Both made also sloppy decisions with the puck at their own end. Just simply put, they both sucked BIG TIME at their own end last night. And anyway I have to say that CSW has not convinced me at all with their defensive play in general. Honestly it seems to me that Scheifele and Wheeler are not at all good together defensively. Occassionally they can be, but the amount of easy mistakes happen just way too often for a line that gets such a great amount of minutes.

And Little does not convince me at all with his offensive play in general. The Jets will not be in my opinion a serious cup contender as long as Little is not upgraded for a clearly offensively better number 2 center. Of course for the rest of this season Stastny could be that upgrade, and he hopefully is it.

If Little is clearly put to a 3rd line center’s role with 10-13 minutes per game, then I can see him being still maybe useful, but if he is used like he is being used right now, he is just an offensive black hole, whom simply keeps offensively dragging down his linemates, unless those linemates happen to be Perreault or Wheeler. But as we all know, Wheeler and Perreault will help any players get better offence, and this has been the case when they have played with Little too.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Merely pointing out that it's rather rich to tell someone to contact naturalstattrick when that person, unlike you, were correct when it came to the minutes played.

The minutes Ippenator listed appear correct & are parallel with those posted by Aavco.

Whereas Aavco's were in a graph, Ippenator's were exact numbers.

While his point is true, that Stastny's line outperformed both the Little line & the Wheeler line when Josi was on the ice, he's failing to take the forwards into account. Coming over the boards against Johansen, Forsberg & Arvidsson like Wheeler did is a tad different than doing the same against Bonino, Hartneel & Jarkrok like Stastny did.

 

[Ducky10]

The minutes Ippenator listed appear correct & are parallel with those posted by Aavco.

Whereas Aavco's were in a graph, Ippenator's were exact numbers.

While his point is true, that Stastny's line outperformed both the Little line & the Wheeler line when Josi was on the ice, he's failing to take the forwards into account. Coming over the boards against Johansen, Forsberg & Arvidsson like Wheeler did is a tad different than doing the same against Bonino, Hartneel & Jarkrok like Stastny did.


View attachment 101353

No....................shit.

But you needn't bother.

 

[Ippenator]

The minutes Ippenator listed appear correct & are parallel with those posted by Aavco.

Whereas Aavco's were in a graph, Ippenator's were exact numbers.

While his point is true, that Stastny's line outperformed both the Little line & the Wheeler line when Josi was on the ice, he's failing to take the forwards into account. Coming over the boards against Johansen, Forsberg & Arvidsson like Wheeler did is a tad different than doing the same against Bonino, Hartneel & Jarkrok like Stastny did.


View attachment 101353

Depends really which of Nashville’s lines is their main shutdown line too. I at least know that Bonino was previously used in Nashville’s shutdown line this season, and at least the shutdown line they had then was used with very good results against exactly very difficult opposing lines. But I have to admit that I dont know that well about their present shutdown line, so I can’t claim anything about it right now. But what I just said about Bonino is anyway true from earlier this season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Tsn turning point was the offside challenge

This x1000.
With a penalty for a failed challenge they should never challenge unless it is obvious. Decision in under 30 secs. No goal - every time.

 

[ATLbound]

It for sure was part of the problem. Only a biased follower can really say that the first and second line forwards didn’t have an atrocious game defensively last night. Only Roslovic gets kind of a pass from me on this. But especially Wheeler and Little were very bad defensively, just themselves, even though for sure the Jets defencemen were really bad too, despite Buff and Morrissey.

But seriously the positional play from Wheeler and Little both was unbelievably bad, and also Little’s effort was nowhere near to what it should be (of course if he was already getting ill, that could explain it in that game). Both made also sloppy decisions with the puck at their own end. Just simply put, they both sucked BIG TIME at their own end last night. And anyway I have to say that CSW has not convinced me at all with their defensive play in general. Honestly it seems to me that Scheifele and Wheeler are not at all good together defensively. Occassionally they can be, but the amount of easy mistakes happen just way too often for a line that gets such a great amount of minutes.

And Little does not convince me at all with his offensive play in general. The Jets will not be in my opinion a serious cup contender as long as Little is not upgraded for a clearly offensively better number 2 center. Of course for the rest of this season Stastny could be that upgrade, and he hopefully is it.

If Little is clearly put to a 3rd line center’s role with 10-13 minutes per game, then I can see him being still maybe useful, but if he is used like he is being used right now, he is just an offensive black hole, whom simply keeps offensively dragging down his linemates, unless those linemates happen to be Perreault or Wheeler. But as we all know, Wheeler and Perreault will help any players get better offence, and this has been the case when they have played with Little too.

48 point pace as 2C and PP2 is a black hole? Keeping in mind ELL did nothing at all 5V5 so it is not like someone carried Little to even be at a 50ish point pace. He did that on his own. People so quick to forgot how big Little was with PLE and PLR when Scheifele and Lowry was out. We still won. Wheeler was pretty bad defence wise, says something about Little a bit doesn't it.

 

[Ippenator]

This x1000.
With a penalty for a failed challenge they should never challenge unless it is obvious. Decision in under 30 secs. No goal - every time.

This is definitely true. And it was kind of a turning point too. But, honestly the Jets got still after that a 5-3 lead, so it could be still argued that the real turning point was after all just the sloppy defending and bad goaltending, especially in the 3rd period.

 

[Aavco Cup]

It supports that we got outplayed. If our goaltending was poor, theirs was poorer.

7 vs 6 for the Jets is getting outplayed? What?

 

[Adam da bomb]

It for sure was part of the problem. Only a biased follower can really say that the first and second line forwards didn’t have an atrocious game defensively last night. Only Roslovic gets kind of a pass from me on this. But especially Wheeler and Little were very bad defensively, just themselves, even though for sure the Jets defencemen were really bad too, despite Buff and Morrissey.

But seriously the positional play from Wheeler and Little both was unbelievably bad, and also Little’s effort was nowhere near to what it should be (of course if he was already getting ill, that could explain it in that game). Both made also sloppy decisions with the puck at their own end. Just simply put, they both sucked BIG TIME at their own end last night. And anyway I have to say that CSW has not convinced me at all with their defensive play in general. Honestly it seems to me that Scheifele and Wheeler are not at all good together defensively. Occassionally they can be, but the amount of easy mistakes happen just way too often for a line that gets such a great amount of minutes.

And Little does not convince me at all with his offensive play in general. The Jets will not be in my opinion a serious cup contender as long as Little is not upgraded for a clearly offensively better number 2 center. Of course for the rest of this season Stastny could be that upgrade, and he hopefully is it.

If Little is clearly put to a 3rd line center’s role with 10-13 minutes per game, then I can see him being still maybe useful, but if he is used like he is being used right now, he is just an offensive black hole, whom simply keeps offensively dragging down his linemates, unless those linemates happen to be Perreault or Wheeler. But as we all know, Wheeler and Perreault will help any players get better offence, and this has been the case when they have played with Little too.

I agree with you. But, let's talk about Mo for a second. If Little is on the 3rd line with Laine and Ehlers than it's ELL all over again. Perrault and Roslo are not getting the 3rd line treatment. One is a valued veteran and the other is a rookie who is not European.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is definitely true. And it was kind of a turning point too. But, honestly the Jets got still after that a 5-3 lead, so it could be still argued that the real turning point was after all just the sloppy defending and bad goaltending, especially in the 3rd period.

Sloppy defending and bad goaltending was a difference maker. They were not turning points. Different things.

The challenge cost us both a goal and the momentum.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Was Nashville missing any players? We were missing two of our top 4 D. As well as Lowry. If everyone is healthy it will be a good rematch (Ie Jets Win!)

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sloppy defending and bad goaltending was a difference maker. They were not turning points. Different things.

The challenge cost us both a goal and the momentum.

If Helle was bad Rinne was just as bad so maybe offense was just amazing?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Well, Naturalstattrick lists 5 on 5 ice times against Josi like this for the Jets top three lines:

Connor 5:10, Scheifele 6:21, Wheeler 5:01

Perreault 6:57, Little 6:22, Roslovic 7:07

Ehlers 6:36, Stastny 6:28, Laine 7:01

So clearly the first line played less against Josi than the 2nd and 3rd line. Sure, Little’s line played after all a bit more against Josi than Stastny’s line, but there the difference is really small (only 21 seconds in fact, while the 1st line played in fact 3 minutes and 33 seconds less against Josi than the 3rd line). And Laine was still playing the second most against Josi of all the players in the Jets top three lines.

Also nothing changes in that, that Stastny’s line won against Josi their game 1-0. While Wheeler and Little both lost their game against Josi 0-2.

If you want to argue the minutes that I posted, please contact Naturalstattrick.com ...

You said mostly against IIRC That's not true he played fairly evenly against all three lines and a little bit againstCopp. Only about 1/3 of his time against Stastny is not mostly. It's the opposite. Most of the time he played against the other two lines.

 

[Aavco Cup]

It for sure was part of the problem. Only a biased follower can really say that the first and second line forwards didn’t have an atrocious game defensively last night. Only Roslovic gets kind of a pass from me on this. But especially Wheeler and Little were very bad defensively, just themselves, even though for sure the Jets defencemen were really bad too, despite Buff and Morrissey.

But seriously the positional play from Wheeler and Little both was unbelievably bad, and also Little’s effort was nowhere near to what it should be (of course if he was already getting ill, that could explain it in that game). Both made also sloppy decisions with the puck at their own end. Just simply put, they both sucked BIG TIME at their own end last night. And anyway I have to say that CSW has not convinced me at all with their defensive play in general. Honestly it seems to me that Scheifele and Wheeler are not at all good together defensively. Occassionally they can be, but the amount of easy mistakes happen just way too often for a line that gets such a great amount of minutes.

And Little does not convince me at all with his offensive play in general. The Jets will not be in my opinion a serious cup contender as long as Little is not upgraded for a clearly offensively better number 2 center. Of course for the rest of this season Stastny could be that upgrade, and he hopefully is it.

If Little is clearly put to a 3rd line center’s role with 10-13 minutes per game, then I can see him being still maybe useful, but if he is used like he is being used right now, he is just an offensive black hole, whom simply keeps offensively dragging down his linemates, unless those linemates happen to be Perreault or Wheeler. But as we all know, Wheeler and Perreault will help any players get better offence, and this has been the case when they have played with Little too.

Saying that crap about Wheeler and Little does not make it true

 

[Ippenator]

48 point pace as 2C and PP2 is a black hole? Keeping in mind ELL did nothing at all 5V5 so it is not like someone carried Little to even be at a 50ish point pace. He did that on his own. People so quick to forgot how big Little was with PLE and PLR when Scheifele and Lowry was out. We still won. Wheeler was pretty bad defence wise, says something about Little a bit doesn't it.

Ok, I admit that Little is pretty solid defensively. I had never in general much of bad things to say about his defensive play (although last night and even lately in other games he has been pretty bad even defensively), but to me he is just not an offensively good enough center to have for a second line where the center gets usually 15-18 minutes per game. Ok, I said probably too harshly that he is a complete offensive black hole, but for sure he is still clearly dragging down the offence for his linemates. Practically everyone produces better when they get to play with other centers than Little. Ok, not counting Hendricks to those centers though...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

7 vs 6 for the Jets is getting outplayed? What?

The Preds had 14 High Danger Chances For. The Jets had 9. The Preds had over 50% more High Danger Chances For. They had better Corsi numbers as well.

Or do we now judge games only on the periods that WE want to count?

 

[Ippenator]

Saying that crap about Wheeler and Little does not make it true

Being biased for them does not make their bad play untrue either...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If Helle was bad Rinne was just as bad so maybe offense was just amazing?

Helle .812 vs Rinne .871. Both bad, but 1 was worse. If Helle had allowed 2 fewer goals their sv% would have been almost equal.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

No....................****.

But you needn't bother.

I'm not sure what your response means.

Are the the numbers in the first graph not a clear representation of the numbers quoted numerically? They certainly appear so.

Am I not agreeing with Aavco as are you that the stats for three forwards coming over the boards opposite Stastny vs. Wheeler more of a factor than a lone defender?

So why the ?
Why the ****?
& why the extra 17 .'s? An ellipsis correctly punctuated is simply "..."

 

[Ippenator]

I agree with you. But, let's talk about Mo for a second. If Little is on the 3rd line with Laine and Ehlers than it's ELL all over again. Perrault and Roslo are not getting the 3rd line treatment. One is a valued veteran and the other is a rookie who is not European.

But Stastny playing with Laine and Ehlers as the second line should happen, if Maurice understands at all who are playing the best and most efficient offensive hockey at the moment (without allowing goals almost at all).

Of course by Maurice’s standards those things that you just pointed out could be meaningful, but if it is really so, then I can tell you, we should all just ditch the Jets then until Maurice is exchanged for another coach, because the Jets will be seriously doomed in the long run, if he does think exactly how you just posted, instead of really playing the most skilled and efficient players that he has.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Big difference is injuries. We have enstrom in the line-up we win this one.

 

[Adam da bomb]

But Stastny playing with Laine and Ehlers as the second line should happen, if Maurice understands at all who are playing the best and most efficient offensive hockey at the moment (without allowing goals almost at all).

Of course by Maurice’s standards those things that you just pointed out could be meaningful, but if it is really so, then I can tell you, we should all just ditch the Jets then until Maurice is exchanged for another coach, because the Jets will be seriously doomed in the long run, if he does think exactly how you just posted, instead of really playing the most skilled and efficient players that he has.

I completely agree. But, I am willing to ride the ride as far as it will go before Mo is scrapped. I like winning, but, I don't we win the cup with him as coach. I would much rather Roslo Stastny and Laine as our second line. After all, Ehlers for some reason thinks he is the star on that line instead of Laine.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Being biased for them does not make their bad play untrue either...

Playing bad is one thing. But the way you describe their positional play is what I was talking about. It's just not credible.

It wasn't Little best game but that whole line seemed to be outcompeted for pucks more than blaming it all on one player like you choose to do. They were also saddled playing a lot with complete tire fire pairing Myers an Kulikov.

On Wheeler you're just wrong. He did not play poorly

Also biased.......good one LOL