An idea to remove the cap advantage for no tax states

[DistantThunderRep]

Just dropping this here for anyone who tries to downplay the tax advantage.

Because I know you wouldn't even bother looking.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1307480088800182272

This is just a basic level of one thing a player does to lower tax burdens. It gets massively more complicated when residency comes into play. But you know what complicates the situation the most? THE FREAKING CRA. For example Canada and the State of California doesn't have a tax treaty. When Kawhi Leonard was offered a contract by the Raptors, as a resident of California, he would have had to pay Canadian Taxes, Ontario Taxes, California Taxes, and US Federal Taxes. Because there is No Treaty with California, his effective Income Tax would have been about 68%. How is this the Raptors or NBA's problem? This is a problem with the State of California and Canada.

You have a problem, go cry to Parliament and your local MP and tell them that you want to lower taxation on your millionaire hockey players to cover for absolute terrible management.

 

[BrokenFace]

LOL who is this? Also this has been provably false and exaggerated. But ok, keep on going. You want more proof proving other wise? Go through the thread and look at the player agents and actual accountants and tax law specialists talking about it. Jesus christ,, you notice its TSN constantly crying about it? Have a problem with facts? Take it up with the CRA because they are the ones "screwing" the millionaires.


Don't even bother, to these absolute morons, only the last 5 years matter. Because of confirmation bias.

Completely agree. Since the cap was implemented, 4 teams have won multiple cups: LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Tampa. 3 of those teams have state taxes (including California, which is the state with the highest taxes, or so I've heard) and 1 doesn't. But which one do these people who want to change the cap focus on?

If a team is unsuccessful, it's not because of local taxes. Just look at the drafting record of some of these teams. The Lightning were famous for finding effective players with later draft picks while Edmonton is famous for drafting like crap outside of the 1st round. That has nothing to do with taxes and impacts success far more than a higher tax rate

 

[tucker3434]

Not too long before that, California teams won 3 cups in 7 years. In fact, if taxes are such a detriment, why did California teams out perform Canadian teams so badly from 2007 until a few years ago when the California teams finally needed to rebuild? I bet players avoid Canadian teams due to the scrutiny they face in those cities. Not just for their own sake, but for their families too

The dirty little (not so) secret is that LA and NYC have zero problem attracting talent despite being easily the most expensive cities in the NHL, because players feel the benefits are worth the cost. And if Canada isn’t worth the cost to live there, why is that the NHL’s problem? This has never been a tax issue.

And I say that as someone that lives in an extremely average city. But with fairly average cost of living too.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Completely agree. Since the cap was implemented, 4 teams have won multiple cups: LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Tampa. 3 of those teams have state taxes (including California, which is the state with the highest taxes, or so I've heard) and 1 doesn't. But which one do these people who want to change the cap focus on?

If a team is unsuccessful, it's not because of local taxes. Just look at the drafting record of some of these teams. The Lightning were famous for finding effective players with later draft picks while Edmonton is famous for drafting like crap outside of the 1st round. That has nothing to do with taxes and impacts success far more than a higher tax rate

I've made this point before, of looking at management and ownership of these no tax teams. And for the last decade or more, Dallas, Tampa, and Nashville have had good to great management. Florida now has great management and ownership. Vegas has had great ownership and great management since inception. Seattle sucks for management but has decent ownership. Guess which team is the worst out of all of them?

 

[Xanlet]

LOL who is this? Also this has been provably false and exaggerated. But ok, keep on going. You want more proof proving other wise? Go through the thread and look at the player agents and actual accountants and tax law specialists talking about it. Jesus christ,, you notice its TSN constantly crying about it? Have a problem with facts? Take it up with the CRA because they are the ones "screwing" the millionaires.


Don't even bother, to these absolute morons, only the last 5 years matter. Because of confirmation bias.

You mean California where the state income tax maxes out around 13% compared with B.C. where the provincial income tax is over 20%? This is your big "gotcha"?

I don't see how you can even make an argument against this, if you play in certain markets, you save millions on taxes, and how well a team does is directly tied to how low they can pay players in order to maximize the quality of the team for the same cap hit dollars. If low taxes make your payroll go further, it's a very basic consequence that your team will perform better.

 

[Xanlet]

Because I know you wouldn't even bother looking.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1307480088800182272

This is just a basic level of one thing a player does to lower tax burdens. It gets massively more complicated when residency comes into play. But you know what complicates the situation the most? THE FREAKING CRA. For example Canada and the State of California doesn't have a tax treaty. When Kawhi Leonard was offered a contract by the Raptors, as a resident of California, he would have had to pay Canadian Taxes, Ontario Taxes, California Taxes, and US Federal Taxes. Because there is No Treaty with California, his effective Income Tax would have been about 68%. How is this the Raptors or NBA's problem? This is a problem with the State of California and Canada.

You have a problem, go cry to Parliament and your local MP and tell them that you want to lower taxation on your millionaire hockey players to cover for absolute terrible management.

You literally linked a former GM directly saying "we had to add $1M to any free agent signing to offset taxes". You can equivocate all you want, but the actual agents and GMs know that taxes benefit US teams and hurt Canadian teams.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

You literally linked a former GM directly saying "we had to add $1M to any free agent signing to offset taxes". You can equivocate all you want, but the actual agents and GMs know that taxes benefit US teams and hurt Canadian teams.

Do you not see who is actually tweeting? Its Allan Walsh, one of the most predominant NHL Agents in the NHL. The man who's job it is to milk out the most money from teams is effectively saying how taxes are over blown. The man's who career is dependant on his client KEEPING MOST OF THEIR MONEY. Jesus Christ, how dense are you? If you have a problem with Taxes effecting your precious team, go to Parliament and demand your millionaires get taxed less because it hurts your feelings. The fact is, no business gives a shit about employee taxes. They don't give a f*** if you are audited, paying your taxes, or not declaring or deducting shit. Its not their responsibility. Same rules apply to the NHL because they are a business. Your hurt feelings and any Canadian hockey fans hurt feelings don't freaking matter. I am born and raised in BC, and I am sick and tired of dumb ass Canadian fans constantly regurgitating misinformed, exaggerated, rhetoric from TSN and Sportsnet... Basically Fox News Canada.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

You mean California where the state income tax maxes out around 13% compared with B.C. where the provincial income tax is over 20%? This is your big "gotcha"?

I don't see how you can even make an argument against this, if you play in certain markets, you save millions on taxes, and how well a team does is directly tied to how low they can pay players in order to maximize the quality of the team for the same cap hit dollars. If low taxes make your payroll go further, it's a very basic consequence that your team will perform better.

Combined state and federal tax very similar between the CA teams and the Canucks.

The issue to me is that Marner pays a ton more taxes than Matthew's. That isn’t a league problem.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

You mean California where the state income tax maxes out around 13% compared with B.C. where the provincial income tax is over 20%? This is your big "gotcha"?

I don't see how you can even make an argument against this, if you play in certain markets, you save millions on taxes, and how well a team does is directly tied to how low they can pay players in order to maximize the quality of the team for the same cap hit dollars. If low taxes make your payroll go further, it's a very basic consequence that your team will perform better.

Yes, RCA's exist, Residency of players exist, Donations, Investments, exist to lower taxation, You think any rich person pays taxes like your common pleb? How many millionaires and billionaires constantly say "You don't stay rich by paying taxes". Taxation isn't like your pleb ass using Turbo Tax. Its vastly complicated and nuanced to the point of taking years of Schooling and practice to be able to manipulate it and make it work in your favour. Things we as broke ass people will never truly know or have access to. Holy hell....its like you think these NHL players are using H&R Block.

Combined state and federal tax very similar between the CA teams and the Canucks.

The issue to me is that Marner pays a ton more taxes than Matthew's. That isn’t a league problem.

These morons believe rich people pay taxes like us plebs. That they stay rich by constantly giving up over 50% of their income...

 

[dabeechman]

More crap to complain about. Yawn.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Another great bump for this thread!

Location: BC

 

[Golden_Jet]

LOL who is this? Also this has been provably false and exaggerated. But ok, keep on going.

From his Forbes column.

Eric Macramalla is a partner at an international law firm, where he's practiced for over 20 years. Follow Eric on Twitter at @EricMacramalla. Eric is the sports legal analyst for TSN and also a contributor to CBS, NBC, ESPN, and Sirius XM, as well as host of the nationally syndicated TSN Radio show, Offside. Eric also teaches Sports Law at the University of Ottawa.

Eric Macramalla

Eric Macramalla's stories.

www.forbes.com

 

[Snotbubbles]

Why is this a problem for the employer? That's what some people refuse to understand. That is up to the player to decide. Plenty of players decide they would much rather pay high taxes to play in big cities.

I never said it was. I said you can't look at state income tax as the only determining factor that you need to correct since there are other monetary factors at play.

But if you want me to answer why it's a problem for employers, I will. In professional sports, you want a level playing field when it comes to ability to sign and/or retain players. It's a problem the NBA has been trying to deal with for some time. They keep messing with their cap rules to prevent a team from creating super teams and to help smaller markets to retain players.

 

[PromisedLand]

Trotz has something to say people LISTEN!

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811917747003208114

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I never said it was. I said you can't look at state income tax as the only determining factor that you need to correct since there are other monetary factors at play.

But if you want me to answer why it's a problem for employers, I will. In professional sports, you want a level playing field when it comes to ability to sign and/or retain players. It's a problem the NBA has been trying to deal with for some time. They keep messing with their cap rules to prevent a team from creating super teams and to help smaller markets to retain players.

Soft cap issue. The most competitive leagues are the NFL and NHL. Why? Hard cap. TSN and Sportsnet have pushed a narrative that it's because of taxes, because the other reality is that their teams have had shit management for decades and that's it's entirely their own faults for not winning cups.

 

[JPT]

They have an advantage in that area. Each team is going to have their unique advantages and disadvantages. The entire point has been that the so-called tax-free advantage isn’t such an unfair issue that there needs to be some hugely complex solution to the cap. The tax-free advantage a team like Nashville has could easily be offset by the endorsement advantage a team like Toronto has, and as has been mentioned you sometimes even see a tax discrepancy *on the same team* (e.g. Matthews and Marner). No one has shown any measurable advantage in winning that a no-income-tax team has by simple virtue of not having a state income tax, at least not without cherrypicking the data.

 

[Absolut]

Can't adjust the cap for sunshine, beach and happy people. I am from NYC, work in Tampa, and my kid plays in MA. People don't sign in Tampa because of taxes. It's a great place to live.

 

[Viqsi]

Many times I keep getting told that folks want to play in Canada because hockey up there is almost a way of life and therefore they're treated like superstar celebrities or something. I think this constitutes an unfair advantage and therefore those of us not in Canada deserve extra cap space to offset it.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Glad people within the NHL are finally saying something. Hopefully this issue is corrected in the next CBA or else just get rid of the cap. Thanks

 

[McVechkin]

Put it this way, if a place has no income tax, they can afford to do that because they tax everything else at a higher rate. In Texas for example, they have really high property taxes in comparison.

Right. That’s what I was getting at. The state still needs money somehow.. it just might be from a different tax than income tax.. which needs to be considered in any type of solution. But I think Florida is different as they rely a lot on tourism to generate the lack of tax dollars.

 

[JPT]

If there is some corrective action taken for this non-issue, I can’t wait to see what the next excuse is for poorly managed teams who have fan bases full of people who think their teams deserve more than others.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Right. That’s what I was getting at. The state still needs money somehow.. it just might be from a different tax than income tax.. which needs to be considered in any type of solution. But I think Florida is different as they rely a lot on tourism to generate the lack of tax dollars.

Florida has a high Property Tax and Sales Tax.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Glad people within the NHL are finally saying something. Hopefully this issue is corrected in the next CBA or else just get rid of the cap. Thanks

I guess you don’t know what the salary cap is for, do you? It’s cost control for the owners. The salary cap is not going anywhere fast.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I guess you don’t know what the salary cap is for, do you? It’s cost control for the owners. The salary cap is not going anywhere fast.

We know that, it was sarcasm about the cap but something needs to change so those teams dont have an advantage. Just like something had to change 20 years ago so the rich teams didnt have an advantage.

 

[Master P]

How about we just re-locate all of the teams to no tax states.

Problem solved. You're welcome.