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Am I the only one that likes the fact that Carlyle is staying?

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chilfactor said:
What did Carlyle do well?
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He did an impeccable job of giving Jay McClement more minutes than Nazem Kadri even when we were down by a goal.

Oh yeah, he also did an excellent job of keeping Phaneuf-Franson on the power-play despite the other team totally abusing their lack of speed then us subsequently leading the league on SHG.
 
The Naz said:
Agreed. I figured it would be Carlyle that is moved because that is the easy answer, but it's true, this team needs changes to win and even Scotty Bowman would have trouble here. Dion needs help and we need a better 2nd line. Both those things could come with maturity, but I think Nonis won't bet his career on that. I think some serious changes are coming, or worse(best) yet, a rebuild is about to happen.

If I had to guess now, I'd think Kadri is out.
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Which is going to be a very big mistake three years down the road.
 
chilfactor said:
What did Carlyle do well?
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Win a Stanley Cup.

I think Carlyle coached to his teams best assets this year and worked well enough for 60 games. It was an up tempo, puck transition team. But that's not what traditionally wins. But this team isn't a defensively built team. It would fail worse if he tried to play a Hitchcock system.
 
You are not the only one who believes that Carlyle should be given another shot. The roster does need to change and Carlyle has acknowledged he needs to look at coaching differently.

Carlyle should be given another chance and if the team collapses again by mid-year then the Maple Leafs management can put an interim coach in before settling on another coach like Hitchcock, or another good coach that has their contract expire next year.

With the coach staying then the Maple Leafs will have to shake up this anaemic roster which will be a good thing for this franchise moving forward. At worst the Maple Leafs failure will have a shot at a franchise player in McDavid, so if the Maple Leafs wants to gamble then this is the year to do it! Win or lose the Leafs have a shot of winning no matter the outcome.
 
Possibly.

I'm indifferent. It could pay off, I suppose. Doesn't really spark confidence in a culture change at the moment, though.

Trying to figure out how he managed an extension, though, is giving me a migraine.
 
The Naz said:
Win a Stanley Cup.

I think Carlyle coached to his teams best assets this year and worked well enough for 60 games. It was an up tempo, puck transition team. But that's not what traditionally wins. But this team isn't a defensively built team. It would fail worse if he tried to play a Hitchcock system.
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He won a cup here?

Despite horrible stats and mostly everyone out there except leaf management expecting the wheels to fall off, he played to his team's assets!??!?!! :help:
 
The Naz said:
Win a Stanley Cup.

I think Carlyle coached to his teams best assets this year and worked well enough for 60 games. It was an up tempo, puck transition team. But that's not what traditionally wins. But this team isn't a defensively built team. It would fail worse if he tried to play a Hitchcock system.
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He won a cup with a hall of fame defence and all star goalie.

He didnt change his system at all this year, it's always relied on blocked shots or weak shots in order for us to get the rebound, he wants the team to collapse and give up shots.

It's a garbage system and I'm really, really dissapointed with this move, he's not winning with this team. He loses teams with his system ala Anaheim in 11-12 which was a very good team, and we played like individuals last season.
 
Leafswillrulesometim said:
He did an impeccable job of giving Jay McClement more minutes than Nazem Kadri even when we were down by a goal.

Oh yeah, he also did an excellent job of keeping Phaneuf-Franson on the power-play despite the other team totally abusing their lack of speed then us subsequently leading the league on SHG.
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While this was something I was also a big critic of, it was kind of ironic that basically the first time he split them up and put Gardiner with Phaneuf, we gave up a SHG against lol.
 
theIceWookie said:
Which is going to be a very big mistake three years down the road.
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Maybe. But I think right now we don't win with a 2C that makes big time turn overs in the offensive zone. I'd like to see a more 2 way C for that line that plays a slower, forechecking style. Jordan Staal would be my target if CAR is looking to shed some salary.

I think Kadri needs to learn to make quicker distribution decisions with the puck or he will always be a streaky 50-60 pt player that makes a lot of turn overs.

A line of Lupul - Staal - Clarkson could make the easy dump in play and go pound it out for possesion with their size and strength. All the while still being responsible defensively.
 
The Naz said:
Win a Stanley Cup.

I think Carlyle coached to his teams best assets this year and worked well enough for 60 games. It was an up tempo, puck transition team. But that's not what traditionally wins. But this team isn't a defensively built team. It would fail worse if he tried to play a Hitchcock system.
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Except the system kind of restricted Gardiner and Rielly's ability to actually tranisiton or carry the puck properly...
 
Carlyle won a cup with a stacked team headlined by two HHOF defense and a Conn Smythe winning goalie. As soon as Nieds and Pronger left the team sucked, they fired Carlyle and then they got better immediately.
 
Everyone can have their opinion on whether or not Carlyle staying is good, but I think we should be united in the thought that a two year extension was not even remotely warranted at all.
 
I'm not in love with Carlyle but do believe he deserves a chance to start the year unless we have a top coach comes on the market that forces us to act right away.

Randy is the first coach to get us in the playoffs in a long time and helped give this team some identity.

Any team that had Kessel-Kadri-Lupul-Raymond in their top 6 TOI well having Franson + Gardiner as a 2nd pair and also breaking in a 19 year old into the top 6 would have been a defensive trainwreck.

Randy does make some decisions that I question but to think any other coach would have had much more success with our roster last season I highly doubt.
 
Knee jerk reactions from leaf fans make me shake my head.

The team is filled with offensive players who don't like to backcheck hard and are soft in 50/50 puck battles.

Keeping Carlyle and getting more guys like Bolland will make the team better. Everyone just needs to chill and let things play out.

If they bring in good two way guys and shore up the PK, the team will be successful. The team is too top heavy right now. They lack depth.

I'm so sick of the fire everybody trade everybody knee jerk reactions that have plagued this team for ever.
 
The Naz said:
Maybe. But I think right now we don't win with a 2C that makes big time turn overs in the offensive zone. I'd like to see a more 2 way C for that line that plays a slower, forechecking style. Jordan Staal would be my target if CAR is looking to shed some salary.

I think Kadri needs to learn to make quicker distribution decisions with the puck or he will always be a streaky 50-60 pt player that makes a lot of turn overs.

A line of Lupul - Staal - Clarkson could make the easy dump in play and go pound it out for possesion with their size and strength. All the while still being responsible defensively.
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Fun story, Kadri only had 16 more giveaways than Staal did. And he had less than Benn, Getzlaf, Lucic, Spezza, Marleau, the other Staal, M Richards, Carter, everyone's favorite Seguin, Malkin.

The "Kadri turnover machine" crowd is exaggerating his issues. He's our best possession forward and he just finished his first full NHL season.

Trading him would be a massive mistake. I've maintained this since the day he was drafted and will continue too.

And I would suspect that trading Kadri for Staal doesn't actually make us a better team.
 
theIceWookie said:
Fun story, Kadri only had 16 more giveaways than Staal did. And he had less than Benn, Getzlaf, Lucic, Spezza, Marleau, the other Staal, M Richards, Carter, everyone's favorite Seguin, Malkin.

The "Kadri turnover machine" crowd is exaggerating his issues. He's our best possession forward and he just finished his first full NHL season.

Trading him would be a massive mistake. I've maintained this since the day he was drafted and will continue too.

And I would suspect that trading Kadri for Staal doesn't actually make us a better team.
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Agreed. :nod:


But then again, depends on the return and no thanks to Staal.
 
the team was at cap max at game 1 of the season.

options through the year to drastically send messages to the team to get their act together was pretty limited to emergency and LTR callup situations.

the team was pathetically weak down the middle, question marks in goal, and was gambling on clarkson replacing the heart and soul and spunk of the team that was causally let go over the summer.

unlike the year prior (or half year) alot of the team played to their average expectations, and didn't overly exceed expectations. (except perhaps bernier and rielly), and well, people cry.

this just really isn't a good hockey team, and nonis's off season actions certainly didn't help carlyle out any - which is probably why he got some slack.
 
chilfactor said:
He won a cup here?

Despite horrible stats and mostly everyone out there except leaf management expecting the wheels to fall off, he played to his team's assets!??!?!! :help:
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Do you think a Hitchcock or Trottz system would work with Phil as your offensive leader? Do you think Kessel will forecheck and grind it out? With this group, what do think should have been done?

rdawg1234 said:
He won a cup with a hall of fame defence and all star goalie.

He didnt change his system at all this year, it's always relied on blocked shots or weak shots in order for us to get the rebound, he wants the team to collapse and give up shots.

It's a garbage system and I'm really, really dissapointed with this move, he's not winning with this team. He loses teams with his system ala Anaheim in 11-12 which was a very good team, and we played like individuals last season.
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We need more forwards that can sustain a forecheck and keep the puck in the right zone. Our offense is a speed only system that is abandoned after the first shot.

I'm not saying he's perfect at all, but outside of Babcock or maybe Bowman, I don't know anyone would really get more then a 1st round exit out of this group.
 
Yes it is the players fault as well but when you get out shot by more than 10 shots a game, its not just the players, its the system. Carlyle did not mediate the problem and it was evident in our yearly collapse. Carlyle also kicked out Grabo and MacArthur one of which had a fantastic season.
 
If I were GM or president I may have fired him. But I'm not angry that he's coming back, the only thing that's upsetting are the zealots who whine "I'm done with this team now".

Does Carlyle deserve to be back? Probably not. Is there a good chance it'll work out? Yes.

We can't be a one-track minded team anymore. We treated every game like a war with a division rival and we paid dearly for it.

Play guys like Ashton, D'Amigo and Granberg. Watch what happens when fast young legs meet Carlyle's hard-nosed system. Good things can happen.

And if we're awful in late November then hell, get rid of him by all means. I'm not convinced this is the worst move for the Leafs.
 
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