Allsvenskan vs ECHL
- Thread starter Weber Fan
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Franck
eltiT resU motsuC
It's difficult to make a comparison as the style of hockey played in the two leagues are radically different and very few players have played in both.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
Jim Morrison
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2009
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Allsvenskan isn't close with SEL. Maybe top 3 teams from allsvenskan could compete in SEL but bottom teams aren't close being SEL-level. Swedes tend to overrate allsvenskan alot but outside sweden it's quite underrated league. IMO Allsvenskan>ECHL and it's not close.
Allsvenskan
However theres quite a gap between the top-teams and the bottom teams. The bottom teams of Allsvenskan might be evely matched with the best ECHL-teams? Allsvenskan have great goalies, but I bet ECHL-goalies are better,since if your a bit down your NHL-teams depth chart this is where you end up.
However theres quite a gap between the top-teams and the bottom teams. The bottom teams of Allsvenskan might be evely matched with the best ECHL-teams? Allsvenskan have great goalies, but I bet ECHL-goalies are better,since if your a bit down your NHL-teams depth chart this is where you end up.
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Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Evan McGrath had 15 points in 9 games in the ECHL years ago and hes in the Allsvenskan now doing pretty good, not PPG or anything though.
Seems like a pretty strong league, not top level but definitely higher than the ECHL. ECHL is really a garbage league beyond goalies.
Seems like a pretty strong league, not top level but definitely higher than the ECHL. ECHL is really a garbage league beyond goalies.
Players have moved straight from Allsvenskan to NHL, even if thats a huge step, Patrik Berglund and Oliver Ekman Larsson comes to mind.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Allsvenskan, pretty easily. It's not quite on par with the AHL as a whole but I'd bet that the top Allsvenskan team could give the Calder Cup champs a run for their money most years.
You think so? It's a whole lot of talened players playing in Allsvenskan, but on the whole it's still a couple of notches down from AHL. On the big ice who knows though. I can tell you it's more fun to watch Allsvenskan than SEL though, since theres less tactical and more intense playing style, more similar to then swedish juniors (not strange since theres a whole lot of players in the 17-24 span playing there.) A young team like Mora got 6 players that is older than 24 out of 28.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
I'd think the Calder Cup champ would win far more often then not series wise, but if we're talking a best of 7 (especially if it's International ice) it would be a closer series then most think most years.
Leksands vs say Charlotte would be a very interesting series to watch.
Have to agree on that, Allsvenskan is a very fun league to watch. The pace of the games look faster than in the SEL but there are generally more mistakes and less tactical play. Lots of former SEL teams there like Leksand, Mora, Södertälje, Malmö, Rögle, Västerås with lots of traditions and the top teams there look stronger than ever while a couple of bottom teams (Sundsvall and Borås) look pretty weak.
Le depisteur
Registered User
Is there a big difference between Allsvenskan and Elitserien? Why Filip Forsberg is actually considered to be a better prospect than Pontus Aberg, even if the later is playing in the Elitserien?
ECHL rarely produces NHL talent. Not sure about Allsvenskan...but the AHL is where guys who couldn't make the NHL play. The ECHL is where the worst of that bunch play.
People ask that entirely too much. If scouts ignored upside, overall talent, and skill and based their rankings completely on stats alone, drafts in history would look much different. Justin Azevedo would've gone first overall in 2010. Forsberg is ranked highly because of his upside. He has all the tools to be a superstar. He wasn't that productive at WJC. True. But in my honest opinion, he displayed the most skill, the most vision, and the best hands on his team. He just needs more experience. He isn't be a consensus top 5 guy for no reason. Scouts aren't that dumb.
People ask that entirely too much. If scouts ignored upside, overall talent, and skill and based their rankings completely on stats alone, drafts in history would look much different. Justin Azevedo would've gone first overall in 2010. Forsberg is ranked highly because of his upside. He has all the tools to be a superstar. He wasn't that productive at WJC. True. But in my honest opinion, he displayed the most skill, the most vision, and the best hands on his team. He just needs more experience. He isn't be a consensus top 5 guy for no reason. Scouts aren't that dumb.
Usually when the players are 14 or 15 years old they choose a junior team close to where they live, Forsberg lived in Leksand and worked himself up to the senior team that just happens to play in Allsvenskan. Åberg probably lived in the Stockholm area so Djurgården or AIK would be the closest teams for him.
The system is quite different from the CHL and there are no drafts, the players basically choose where they want to play on the senior level (if they are good enough) and the best places for development are usually with teams that can offer good hockeygymnasiums. Many teams in Allsvenskan has those, Leksand is one of those places and it has been producing pretty good talents recently.
Le depisteur
Registered User
Justin Azvedo's draft year was in 2006, not 2010...
Forsberg, Aberg and Collbert have all the same age... Then, you think Aberg and Collberg are both better than Forsberg at this present, but Forsberg will be better in the future? That's right?
JacketsFanWest
Registered User
I've watched games in both leagues and I'd say Allsvenskan is on average at a higher level. But it's two completely different systems.
Allsvenskan teams are trying to be promoted to the SEL or avoid being relegated to Division 1. SEL teams will loan players to Allsvenskan teams, but they typically call up players from their J20 squads. Players also want to play for their local Allsvenskan to help it get promoted up to the SEL (go Södertälje!)
There are good ECHL teams, but they frequently are pillaged by AHL teams calling the better players up. But that's the whole aim for players in the ECHL - get noticed and get up to the AHL. You have some local players in the ECHL but generally the rosters completely change every year with whoever they can find to play.
The limits on number of veterans in the AHL does bury some players in the ECHL that aren't deemed prospects or aren't a priority for an organization to develop, but are good players who can tear up the league.
Allsvenskan teams are trying to be promoted to the SEL or avoid being relegated to Division 1. SEL teams will loan players to Allsvenskan teams, but they typically call up players from their J20 squads. Players also want to play for their local Allsvenskan to help it get promoted up to the SEL (go Södertälje!)
There are good ECHL teams, but they frequently are pillaged by AHL teams calling the better players up. But that's the whole aim for players in the ECHL - get noticed and get up to the AHL. You have some local players in the ECHL but generally the rosters completely change every year with whoever they can find to play.
The limits on number of veterans in the AHL does bury some players in the ECHL that aren't deemed prospects or aren't a priority for an organization to develop, but are good players who can tear up the league.
Not all of the best youngsters play in Elitserien. Some teams in Allsvenskan have excellent development programs so some of the best talent in Sweden ends up playing there. Even players that was developed by Elitserien-clubs might end up there on a loan.
I would say that Allsvenskan is as strong as ever right now, and the step to SEL isn't that steep, since SEL is a bit weaker than usual (players going over to KHL or NA in a early age). It's pretty common nowadays for teams to move between the leagues.
I would say that Allsvenskan is as strong as ever right now, and the step to SEL isn't that steep, since SEL is a bit weaker than usual (players going over to KHL or NA in a early age). It's pretty common nowadays for teams to move between the leagues.
I don't think Aberg and Collberg are better. That's the thing.
And actually it was 2008. Both wrong. But he had 124 points in his draft year. That doesn't make him a great player. Stamkos had 105 points his draft year. He's one of the best in the league now.
Landeskog only had 66 points the year he was drafted. Huberdeau had 105. Phiilips had 95 and he's nowhere near the NHL. Excuse me if I don't believe that stats are everything.
I guess the scouting world took a collective hit of marijuana and thought it would be funny to mess with draft readers and NHL clubs by consistently ranking Filip Forsberg in the top 5. There's no base to the consistent claims at ALL right?
Vladamir Tarasenko 24 points
Evgeny Kuznetsov 9 points
Patrik Berglund 4 points
Adam Larsson 9 points
Excuse me if I think that stats don't tell the whole story. I saw with my own eyes. And I watched Sweden CAREFULLY (Forsberg, Aberg, Collberg+3 Ducks prospects Friberg, Karlsson, and Rakell)
Aberg looked fine but didn't have the experience or drive to be a factor. He'd make a couple speedy/flashy plays and then disappear for the rest of the game. If I was drafting based on what I've read and what I've seen, I wouldn't take him in the top 15.
Collberg displayed a hard shot and lot's of speed. But unless he had a clear line to the net to drive at, he was next to useless. When he'd receive passes, if he managed to actually cradle it, he gave it away almost instantly and for the most part he missed his targets. For the rest of the time, he simply couldn't cradle the puck on his stick. He looked like it had anti-rubber solution on the blade. And out of like 15 deke attempts maybe 3 or 4 of them actually worked. And these opinions won't change should the Ducks draft him.
Everytime the puck got onto Forsberg's stick he thrilled me. He has Corey Perry's creativity and board work, he just lacks the experience and finesse to execute the moves. But you can see the talent is clearly there. His vision is on another level, his offensive awareness is acute, and his hands are phenomenal. The only player whose hands impressed me more at WJC was Yakupov (he did stuff that blew my mind). I'm not saying he's a sure-fire star, but he has the tools to be one. If you look at stats, yeah Collberg and Aberg should go first. But they won't upside still plays a huge roll, and Forsberg has the highest boom potential of anyone in the 2012 draft (also the highest expected bust potential).
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