All time World team

[CokenoPepsi]

Reading the all time team Canada thread got me thinking on an all time team world thread and how they would stack up.

 

[Gerulaitis]

I'm repeating my lineup with slight changes:

Tretiak
Hasek
Hellebuyck

Fetisov. Kasatonov.
Lidström. Salming.
Konstantinov. Chara.
Leetch. Chelios

Jagr. Kharlamov. Krutov. Larionov. Makarov. Bure. Mogilny. Fedorov. Forsberg. Stastny. Hull. Selänne.

Coach: Tikhonov

 

[MadLuke]

how they would stack up.

It depends on chemistry and so on, but they should do very well.

1987 team Canada at time did send near as good as it get to a soviet team and they won by a single famous goal.

A team with peak Hasek and 6 great defensemen can always win, not only a game which would be true for a much lesser team than that, but a series imo.

Hockey is not the type of sport were a lesser team as no chance and I am not sure the gap is significant at all, remove Gretzky-Orr, they are really close with some advantage at some spot arguably, like in net.

 

[authentic]

Reading the all time team Canada thread got me thinking on an all time team world thread and how they would stack up.

This is what I just mentioned at the end of the Canada thread. I posted my team in there and I think it stacks up surprisingly well.

 

[Namba 17]

I'll try
I think its fare to have USSR/Russia team as basis for world team.
This is my USSR/Russia team

Ovechkin - Petrov - Mikhailov
Krutov - Datsyuk - Makarov
Firsov - Fedorov - Balderis
Kharlamov - Starshinov - Kucherov
Malkin, Maltsev

Fetisov - Vasiliev
Pervoukhin - Kasatonov
Lutchenko - Sologubov
Ragulin

Tretiak
Vasilevsky

Lets see what we can make better here.

First line is untouchable - its a masterpeace, you cant improve it. Actually, this line alone is enough to win any tournament against any team. It has absolutely anything a hockey line can have.

Second line. In my book Krutov is #2 all-time LW outside of Canada and Makarov is #2 all-time RW. Considering, that they played in one line its nobrainer to have them both in my second line. I made Datsyuk as my #2 C because I think that he match them better stilistically and is an upgrade over their real life C. I can put Malkin in his place, but I prefer Datsyuk defence over Malkin offense in this case.
Whom I can substitute Datsuyk? Stastny, Novy, Hlinka, Modano, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov, Sundin, Zetterberg, Forsberg, S.Koivy, Draisaitl, Kopitar... probably, thats it.
Stastny, Draisaitl and Novy all similar to Malkin in sense that they bring more offense than defence, while I rate Malkin higher, So I'd better put Malkin there. And I didn't because of above. Zetterberg bring less offense than Datsyuk with comparable defence. Matthews is a player who needs all his line play for him which I see no reason in this case - my line is constructed differently - best scorers are on wings while C play more defence with above average goal-scoring and very good playmaking. Also, I think that Datsuyk stickhandling match Krutov and espesially Makarov stickhandling better.
I also think that Datsuyk is a superior player to S.Koivy, Eichel and Modano in any aspect of the game.
I'd still give an edge to Dats against Barkov and Sundin, whough the distasnce here is smaller and I can see if anyone whant to make a case for tham here.
And yes, I have sweet spot for Hlinka. I think that he is extremely underrated. Big, strong, great hands, excellent both sides of the ice, greate playmaker, good scorer - he brought everything. So I can absolutely see him in this place. And Kopitar is, probably, the closest player to him stylistically.
Forsberg - yes, without any doubts, he can be here. Id put him here, but I prefer his physical game to be used in another line of my team.
So, I'd leave this line as it is.

Third and fourth line LWs are nobrainers also. They are simply two best LWs that left, so I see no reason to invent anything here - there is no competition on these spots at all.
For Fedorov everything that I wrote about Datsuyk is valid also. Actually, I think they are very close in value.
RW here is Jagr without doubts. You cant have all-time world team without Jagr and he matches his partners of this line perfectly. I'd wish to see Jagr - Firsov combo...

Fourth line. Ive already written about LW, so I'd take Forsberg as C here. To me he is clearly above the rest, exept for Hlinka, probably.

Now for RW we have: Kucherov, Kane, Martinec, Kurri, Selanne, Brett Hull. While all of them are great players, I'd take the one with comparable to Kharlamov stickhandling, clutchness and IQ. Also with such shuters as Hull, Selanne and Kurri I'd prefer a bit different LW - more like glue guy and slot player.
It leave us with Kucherov, Kane and Martinec.
They are extremely close. Im not sure how to compare Martinec to others, probably he is is not lower than Kane. And as for Kane and Kucherov I think that Kucherov has an edge. Though I can see arguments for Kane also.

As for spares. Malkin will stay he is easily the best of the bunch and with his offense he can play RW too (he played it for team Russia actually). Another spear... Really, anyone of the list. Probably, considering that I already have Malkin, I'd take some C with more two-way game. Like Zetterberg. Or Sundin. Or Hlinka.

Defence.
Here we have real changes.
The main problem with world's D is right spot.
Almost any all-time great here played left.
If we look at the right side of the rink we will see Chelios, Vasiliev, Kasatonov, Karlsson and Suchy with Sologubov and Ragulin after small gap and that's almost it.
And the left side is stacked.
Lidstrom, Fetisov, Leetch, Salming, Pospishil, Chara, Howe, Lutchenko, Pervoukhin, Hedman, Langway...
So.
Lidstrom, Chelios and Fetisov should be there.
It gives us
Lidstrom - Chelios
Fetisov - X

I'd rather not put Fetisov with offense-first D, so it leaves us with two options, really - Kasatonov and Vasiliev. Fetisov played with both of them and while his duet with Kasatonov became world-wide famous, I definately rate Vasiliev higher.
So, first two pairs are:
Lidstrom - Chelious
Fetisov - Vasiliev

And for 3d pair we have enormous variants of option. We can take defensive LD and offensive RD and have smth like Chara - Karlsson or Langway-Suchy. Or we can take two-way D on both sides and play Salming - Kasatonov or Pospishil - Kasatonov or Leetch - Kasatonov or Hedman - Kasatonov... But probably I'd take Chara-Karlsson pair as my #3 and have Hedman as my spare.

Top 2 goalies are easy.
Hasek
Tretiak

#3 is smth between Vasilevsky, Lundqvist, Hellebuyck and Holecek. Let it be Lundqvist


It gives us for team world:

Ovechkin - Petrov - Mikhailov
Krutov - Datsyuk - Makarov
Firsov - Fedorov - Jagr
Kharlamov - Forsberg - Kucherov
Malkin, Zetterberg

Lidstrom - Chelios
Fetisov - Vasiliev
Chara - Karlsson
Hedman

Hasek
Tretiak
Lundqvist

 

[seventieslord]

best non-canada team:

Ovechkin - Forsberg - Jagr
Kharlamov - Malkin - Makarov
Kurri - Firsov - Kucherov
Mikhailov - Fedorov - Selanne

Lidstrom - Fetisov
Chelios - Salming
Chara - Howe

Hasek
Tretiak
Brimsek

....soooo many good RWs, I even ran out of room for Hull and Kane. So comparitively weak on LW depth that I had to get Kurri and Mikhailov over there.

 

[Gerulaitis]

best non-canada team:

Ovechkin - Forsberg - Jagr
Kharlamov - Malkin - Makarov
Kurri - Firsov - Kucherov
Mikhailov - Fedorov - Selanne

Lidstrom - Fetisov
Chelios - Salming
Chara - Howe

Hasek
Tretiak
Brimsek

....soooo many good RWs, I even ran out of room for Hull and Kane. So comparitively weak on LW depth that I had to get Kurri and Mikhailov over there.

It's surprising to see Malkin instead of Larionov.

IMHO, Fetisov must be paired Kasatonov plus the full KLM line.
Krutov was super important for their success

And where is Pavel Bure?

 

[seventieslord]

It's surprising to see Malkin instead of Larionov.

IMHO, Fetisov must be paired Kasatonov plus the full KLM line.
Krutov was super important for their success

And where is Pavel Bure?

Wasn't thinking too hard about building real life units that worked - just went with the best individuals for the most part. On that basis, Larionov doesn't really have a case to make this team.

Kasatonov was fairly close, but there's still Leetch, Vasiliev, Karlsson and Langway who aren't even here.

Krutov has a reasonable case given the weak LW slots being taken up by RWs.

This is an all-time, non-Canada team. Bure was great but every RW that I picked was either a better player, had a better career, or both - and I didn't even get to include Brett Hull or Patrick Kane. There's Martinec to think about as well.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Ovechkin - Gretzky - Czerkawski
Elias - Kopitar - Sprong
Bellemare - Hand - Selänne
Zuccarello - Ponikarovsky - Rendulic
Walker

Kasparaitis - Karlsson
Salei - Chelios
Josi - Seider
Pöck

Irbe
Andersen
Fukufuji

 

[Gerulaitis]

Wasn't thinking too hard about building real life units that worked - just went with the best individuals for the most part. On that basis, Larionov doesn't really have a case to make this team.

Kasatonov was fairly close, but there's still Leetch, Vasiliev, Karlsson and Langway who aren't even here.

Krutov has a reasonable case given the weak LW slots being taken up by RWs.

This is an all-time, non-Canada team. Bure was great but every RW that I picked was either a better player, had a better career, or both - and I didn't even get to include Brett Hull or Patrick Kane. There's Martinec to think about as well.

Larionov is surely a better choice than Datsyuk or Malkin. Very high hockey IQ, winning mindset, longevity.

Healthy Bure was a fantastic player that . I'd have him over Kane if the team needs high speed and energy on RW.

Martinec is a good idea

Question: which team Stan Mikita should play for? Canada or the World?

 

[Staniowski]

best non-canada team:

Ovechkin - Forsberg - Jagr
Kharlamov - Malkin - Makarov
Kurri - Firsov - Kucherov
Mikhailov - Fedorov - Selanne

Lidstrom - Fetisov
Chelios - Salming
Chara - Howe

Hasek
Tretiak
Brimsek

....soooo many good RWs, I even ran out of room for Hull and Kane. So comparitively weak on LW depth that I had to get Kurri and Mikhailov over there.

Russia has always been strong at LW.

Firsov, Kharlamov, Yakushev, Krutov, Kamensky, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Panarin, Kaprizov...i think Bure played LW with Fedorov and Mogilny, although he certainly was primarily a RW.

Putting Kurri over Krutov is strange. They played at the same time and there wasn't a single person who thought Kurri was the better player.

 

[Staniowski]

Larionov is surely a better choice than Datsyuk or Malkin. Very high hockey IQ, winning mindset, longevity.

Healthy Bure was a fantastic player that . I'd have him over Kane if the team needs high speed and energy on RW.

Martinec is a good idea

Question: which team Stan Mikita should play for? Canada or the World?

Mikita would be able to choose which country to play for under today's conditions, but i think he played 100% of his hockey in Canada.

In any case, he really wasn't good enough to play for either team.

 

[authentic]

Larionov is surely a better choice than Datsyuk or Malkin. Very high hockey IQ, winning mindset, longevity.

Healthy Bure was a fantastic player that . I'd have him over Kane if the team needs high speed and energy on RW.

Martinec is a good idea

Question: which team Stan Mikita should play for? Canada or the World?

Larionov a better choice than Datsyuk and Malkin in what sense?

 

[Gerulaitis]

Mikita would be able to choose which country to play for under today's conditions, but i think he played 100% of his hockey in Canada.

In any case, he really wasn't good enough to play for either team.

Wasn't good enough?
Mikita has
2 Harts,
4 Art Rosses,
Multiple all star.
Made the 1972 dream team.

I think he's worth considering for either team

 

[Gerulaitis]

Larionov a better choice than Datsyuk and Malkin in what sense?

I think I have mentioned it in the paragraph. IQ, winning, longevity.

 

[Staniowski]

Wasn't good enough?
Mikita has
2 Harts,
4 Art Rosses,
Multiple all star.
Made the 1972 dream team.

I think he's worth considering for either team

He wasn't good enough to make either team. He wasn't a difference maker at that level of competition.

1972 was in the middle of his career, and he only made the team as a replacement for Derek Sanderson.

 

[Gerulaitis]

He wasn't good enough to make either team. He wasn't a difference maker at that level of competition.

1972 was in the middle of his career, and he only made the team as a replacement for Derek Sanderson.

Not a difference maker in what sense?

 

[Staniowski]

Not a difference maker in what sense?

He just wasn't elite enough of a player to be great against great opposition. He stood out offensively in the 1960s simply because there weren't many skilled forwards in his generation. Guys like Dionne and Perreault would've won multiple scoring titles in the '60s.

Even when Mikita was at his very best, I think he would've been in tough to make a Team Canada as a centre, competing against Beliveau, Keon, Richard, Delvecchio...then Esposito.

Mikita was a skilled player, no doubt. But I don't think he wins any scoring titles if he's at his best even in the '70s.

 

[JackSlater]

Mikita would be able to choose which country to play for under today's conditions, but i think he played 100% of his hockey in Canada.

In any case, he really wasn't good enough to play for either team.

Mikita wouldn't be eligible to play for anyone other than Canada today. Even if he was a dual citizen he would not meet the criteria as he never played hockey in his birth country.

Regardless, he's a weird choice to bring up here.

 

[Staniowski]

Mikita wouldn't be eligible to play for anyone other than Canada today. Even if he was a dual citizen he would not meet the criteria as he never played hockey in his birth country.

Regardless, he's a weird choice to bring up here.

Where can we find the rules for this?

 

[buffalowing88]

best non-canada team:

Ovechkin - Forsberg - Jagr
Kharlamov - Malkin - Makarov
Kurri - Firsov - Kucherov
Mikhailov - Fedorov - Selanne

Lidstrom - Fetisov
Chelios - Salming
Chara - Howe

Hasek
Tretiak
Brimsek

....soooo many good RWs, I even ran out of room for Hull and Kane. So comparitively weak on LW depth that I had to get Kurri and Mikhailov over there.

That top-6 is wild. I'd probably swap out Malkin and Forsberg since Forsberg seems like he'd actually gel better with the Soviets, but otherwise agree with your picks.

 

[Overrated]

Firsov-Forsberg-Jagr
Bure-Datsyuk-Makarov
Kharlamov-Petrov-Selanne
Ovechkin-Fedorov-Kucherov

Chara-Chelios
Fetisov-Kasatonov
Lidstrom-Salming

Hasek
Tretiak

 

[ES]

Ovechkin - Gretzky - Czerkawski
Elias - Kopitar - Sprong
Bellemare - Hand - Selänne
Zuccarello - Ponikarovsky - Rendulic
Walker

Kasparaitis - Karlsson
Salei - Chelios
Josi - Seider
Pöck

Irbe
Andersen
Fukufuji

I can see that this is a team where every player belongs to a different country.

I would put Hasek to the net, dropping Andersen and then Ehlers will take the place in the forward line-up instead of Elias.

Lidström should be the Swedish defenseman. Kasparaitis represented Russia in his prime. Born in modern Lithuania (which was part of USSR at the time of his birth) he represented them only in one tournament when he was 45, so I wouldn't count him. There's no Slovakian player in the line-up so Chara will go in.

Khristich should be in the team as an Ukrainian over Ponikarovsky.

Vanek is easily the best Austrian player available. But then one of the top country players would be needed to be replaced by defenseman compatriot. In ten years we know how good Solberg will be and if he's good enough to be push Zuccarello out. But at the moment it's like Fetisov in and Ovechkin out or Numminen in and Selänne out or something like that.

 

[JackSlater]

Where can we find the rules for this?

You can look up the IIHF eligibility rules. Dual citizens have to have played more than one season within a country to represent that country is the short version. It is a rule that has come into play once in a while, usually at the junior level. I also imagine that Mikita had to give up his Czech citizenship upon getting his Canadian citizenship, but that wouldn't be the case now.

 

[Gerulaitis]

He just wasn't elite enough of a player to be great against great opposition. He stood out offensively in the 1960s simply because there weren't many skilled forwards in his generation. Guys like Dionne and Perreault would've won multiple scoring titles in the '60s.

Even when Mikita was at his very best, I think he would've been in tough to make a Team Canada as a centre, competing against Beliveau, Keon, Richard, Delvecchio...then Esposito.

Mikita was a skilled player, no doubt. But I don't think he wins any scoring titles if he's at his best even in the '70s.

Gilbert Perrault should be in team Canada.
Thanks for reminding.