All-Time Original Six

[Prophecy35]

I rarely post anymore. In fact, I haven't logged on in over a year. After seeing threads talking about all-time national teams, I thought about my old "project" to compile teams from various franchises. To start, I only wanted to focus on original six franchises.

Players in plain text are those I was leaning toward making a lock. Players in bold are borderline. Players in italics are just additional that came to mind (some are very far from making the team).

I got lazy and stopped giving explanations. Didn't have a lot of time to make the post. Forgive me for that.

Feel free to give honest critique and express your opinions! I try to stay informed, however, I'm sure plenty of posters here know more than I do!

Here is what I came up with:

Montreal Canadiens
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Maurice Richard
Aurel Joliat - Howie Morenz - Newsy Lalonde
Dickie Moore - Jean Beliveau - Bernie Geoffrion
Steve Shutt - Henri Richard - Guy LaFleur​

I found this to be one of the easiest forward lineups to create. There are some omissions, however, these players are definitely the standouts. The only player I'm not 100% on is Steve Shutt. His chemistry with Lafleur put him in over someone like Cournoyer, for example.

Extras: Bob Gainey, Yvon Cournoyer, Jacques Lemaire, Claude Provost, Saku Koivu, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Carbonneau, Max Pacioretty

Gainey, Cournoyer, and Lemaire were hard to leave out of the lineup. They all made major contributions to the Habs. Provost is borderline based on his defensive reputation and tenure. However, what separates Provost from Carbonneau? What separates those two from Gainey? After all, they are all here based on defensive play. Tough call here.

Butch Bouchard - Doug Harvey
Serge Savard - Larry Robinson
Guy Lapointe - Ken Reardon​

Nothing much to say here. There are some extras that are "knocking at the door" but I feel as though this top-six will all make my final team, even if some end up as scratches.

Extras: J.C. Tremblay, Tom Johnson, Sylvio Mantha, Sprague Leghorn, Jacques Laperriere, Andrei Markov, Jean-Guy Talbot, Chris Chelios, P.K. Subban

Out of these additionals, the player who I think is most likely to make it is Sprague Cleghorn. Although, I do want to have two to three extra defensemen on the final team.

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Ken Dryden​

There may be changes with the order, but these goalies were easy locks

Extras: Bill Durnan, Georges Vezina, George Hainsworth, Carey Price

Toronto Maple Leafs​

Busher Jackson - Joe Primeau - Charlie Conacher
Sid Smith - Ted Kennedy - Babe Dye
Frank Mahovlich - Dave Keon - Darryl Sittler
Gordie Drillon - Syl Apps - Mats Sundin​

Though they are VERY close, I'm not sure about both Primeau and Smith. How much of their success can be attributed to their line mates? I feel as though I am being overly harsh though. Thoughts?

Extras: George Armstrong, Doug Gilmour, Bob Pulford, Rick Vaive, Ace Bailey, Lanny McDonald, Ron Ellis, Phil Kessel

Borje Salming - Harry Cameron
King Clancy - Babe Pratt
Tim Horton - Allan Stanley​

Extras: Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Jimmy Thomson, Red Horner, Hap Day, Tomas Kaberle, Ian Turnbull, Bryan McCabe, Jim McKenny

Turk Broda
Johnny Bower
Felix Potvin​

Extras: Harry Lumley, Curtis Joseph

Boston Bruins​

Wayne Cashman - Phil Esposito - Ken Hodge
John Bucyk - Adam Oates - Cam Neely
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Terry O'Reilly - Bill Cowley - Rick Middleton​

Extras: Patrice Bergeron, Peter McNab, Don Marcotte, Joe Thornton, Cooney Weiland, Marty Barry, Jean Ratelle, Barry Pederson, Don McKenney, David Krejci, Glen Murray, Fred Stanfield, Jason Allison, Brad Marchand

Bergeron is definitely on the team. I just don't know where to put him.

Bobby Orr - Eddie Shore
Ray Bourque - Brad Park
Dit Clapper - Zdeno Chara​

Extras: Jack Crawford, Flash Hollett, Fern Flaman, Lionel Hitchman, Bill Quackenbush, Dallas Smith, Glen Wesley, Leo Boivin

Frank Brimsek
Tiny Thompson
Tim Thomas​

Extras: Gerry Cheevers, Tuukka Rask, Eddie Johnston

Chicago Blackhawks​

Bobby Hull - Stan Mikita - Kenny Wharram
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Jeremy Roenick - Denis Savard - Steve Larmer
Paul Thompson - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane​

Extras: Tony Amonte, Patrick Sharp, Johnny Gottselig, Eric Nesterenko, Dennis Hull, Ed Litzenberger, Pit Martin, Mush March, Marian Hossa

Pierre Pilote - Duncan Keith
Chris Chelios - Doug Wilson
Pat Stapleton - Earl Seibert​

Extras: Elmer Vasko, Bill White, Brent Seabrook, Bill Gadsby, Keith Magnuson, Bob Murray, Doug Jarrett, Phil Russell

Glenn Hall
Tony Esposito
Charlie Gardiner​

Extras: Ed Belfour

Detroit Red Wings​

Ted Lindsay - Sid Abel - Gordie Howe
Brendan Shanahan - Steve Yzerman - Sergei Fedorov
Alex Delvecchio - Norm Ullman - Syd Howe
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Larry Aurie​

Extras: Marty Barry, Herbie Lewis, Tomas Holmstrom, Slava Kozlov, Johan Franzen, John Ogrodnick, Igor Larionov, Marcel Dionne, Mickey Redmond

Red Kelly - Marcel Pronovost
Nicklas Lidstrom - Jack Stewart
Bill Quackenbush - Ebbie Goodfellow​

Extras: Vladimir Konstantinov, Chris Chelios, Reed Larson, Nicklas Kronwall, Gary Bergman, Brian Rafalski, Paul Coffey, Larry Murphy, Bill Gadsby

Terry Sawchuk
Harry Lumley
Chris Osgood​

Extras: Roger Crozier

New York Rangers​

Bun Cook - Frank Boucher - Bill Cook
Lynn Patrick - Mark Messier - Andy Bathgate
Vic Hadfield - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Cecil Dillon - Neil Colville - Bryan Hextall​

Extras: Walt Tkaczuk, Camille Henry, Phil Watson, Dean Prentice, Adam Graves, Steve Vickers, Phil Esposito, Phil Goyette, Jaromir Jagr

Brian Leetch - Harry Howell
Brad Park - Bill Gadsby
Ott Heller - Ching Johnson​

Extras: Art Coulter, Ryan McDonagh, Barry Beck, Jim Neilson, Ron Greschner, James Patrick, Rod Seiling, Dan Girardi, Babe Pratt, Dave Maloney, Reijo Ruotsalainen, Marc Staal

Henrik Lundqvist
Ed Giacomin
Mike Richter

Extras: Chuck Rayner, John Vanbiesbrouck, Dave Kerr, Gump Worsley, John Ross Roach

Click to read more...

 

[MXD]

I rarely post anymore. In fact, I haven't logged on in over a year. After seeing threads talking about all-time national teams, I thought about my old "project" to compile teams from various franchises. To start, I only wanted to focus on original six franchises.

(...)

Feel free to give honest critique and express your opinions! I try to stay informed, however, I'm sure plenty of posters here know more than I do!

Here is what I came up with:

Montreal Canadiens
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Maurice Richard
Aurel Joliat - Howie Morenz - Newsy Lalonde
Dickie Moore - Jean Beliveau - Bernie Geoffrion
Steve Shutt - Henri Richard - Guy LaFleur​

I found this to be one of the easiest forward lineups to create. There are some omissions, however, these players are definitely the standouts. The only player I'm not 100% on is Steve Shutt. His chemistry with Lafleur put him in over someone like Cournoyer, for example.

Extras: Bob Gainey, Yvon Cournoyer, Jacques Lemaire, Claude Provost, Saku Koivu, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Carbonneau, Max Pacioretty

Gainey, Cournoyer, and Lemaire were hard to leave out of the lineup. They all made major contributions to the Habs. Provost is borderline based on his defensive reputation and tenure. However, what separates Provost from Carbonneau? What separates those two from Gainey? After all, they are all here based on defensive play. Tough call here.

Butch Bouchard - Doug Harvey
Serge Savard - Larry Robinson
Guy Lapointe - Ken Reardon​

Nothing much to say here. There are some extras that are "knocking at the door" but I feel as though this top-six will all make my final team, even if some end up as scratches.

Extras: J.C. Tremblay, Tom Johnson, Sylvio Mantha, Sprague Leghorn, Jacques Laperriere, Andrei Markov, Jean-Guy Talbot, Chris Chelios, P.K. Subban

(...)

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Ken Dryden​

There may be changes with the order, but these goalies were easy locks

Extras: Bill Durnan, Georges Vezina, George Hainsworth, Carey Price

Forwards : I gather that you wanted to come up with actual "real" lines, and plug someone if needed... especially if it's a contemporaneous player.

But a Joliat - Morenz - Lafleur line probably plays better in each player's strengths.

A Gainey - Henri - Cournoyer line could be... very fun to watch because there's some ridiculous speed, even if it looks a bit without a direction/orientation.

Defense : I'd rather have Chris Chelios than Ken Reardon. Cleghorn wasn't always a Hab so it's a bit more contentious.

Spares : Exactly as you put (switch everyone I put in the lineup). I still prefer Mats Naslund to Max Pacioretty if the gave is to have any sort of importance.

 

[Neutrinos]

No room for Dougie on the Leafs team?

He played more games for Toronto than Oates played for Boston

 

[seventieslord]

You need to un-bold Patrick Sharp and bold Johnny Gottselig.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Funny, I was also thinking about this yesterday. These are the best scenarios IMO, taking into account chemistry, fit etc, so not just a depth chart.

Boston Bruins

Johnny Bucyk - Phil Esposito - Rick Middleton
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Roy Conacher - Bill Cowley - Cam Neely
Cooney Weiland - Adam Oates - Patrice Bergeron

Zdeno Chara - Bobby Orr
Raymond Bourque - Eddie Shore
Brad Park - Dit Clapper

Frank Brimsek
Tiny Thompson

Chicago Blackhawks

Bobby Hull - Denis Savard - Jeremy Roenick
Roy Conacher - Stan Mikita - Patrick Kane
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Paul Thompson - Jonathan Toews - Steve Larmer

Duncan Keith - Chris Chelios
Doug Wilson - Pierre Pilote
Bill Gadsby - Earl Seibert

Glenn Hall
Charlie Gardiner

Detroit Red Wings

Ted Lindsay - Sid Abel - Gordie Howe
Syd Howe - Norm Ullman - Steve Yzerman
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Sergei Fedorov
Alex Delvecchio - Marty Barry - Brendan Shanahan

Red Kelly - Nicklas Lidstrom
Bill Quackenbush - Jack Stewart
Ebbie Goodfellow - Marcel Pronovost

Terry Sawchuk
Harry Lumley

Montreal Canadiens

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Guy Lafleur
Jacques Lemaire - Jean Beliveau - Bernie Geoffrion
Dickie Moore - Henri Richard - Maurice Richard
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Newsy Lalonde

Doug Harvey - Guy Lapointe
Larry Robinson - Serge Savard
Jacques Laperriere - Emile Bouchard

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy

New York Rangers

Bun Cook - Frank Boucher - Bill Cook
Lynn Patrick - Mark Messier - Andy Bathgate
Cecil Dillon - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Phil Watson - Neil Colville - Bryan Hextall

Ching Johnson - Brad Park
Brian Leetch - Art Coulter
Bill Gadsby - Harry Howell

Henrik Lundqvist
Chuck Rayner

Toronto Maple Leafs

Busher Jackson - Ted Kennedy - Charlie Conacher
Frank Mahovlich - Syl Apps - Gordie Drillon
Darryl Sittler - Mats Sundin - Babe Dye
Doug Gilmour - Dave Keon - George Armstrong

Borje Salming - Tim Horton
Carl Brewer - King Clancy
Allan Stanley - Jimmy Thomson

Turk Broda
Johnny Bower

 

[BayStreetBully]

For Leafs, I'd replace Sid Smith and Gordie Drillon with George Armstrong and Red Kelly. And on defense, I'd replace Babe Pratt with Jimmy Thomson.

Armstrong and Kelly were too important to the franchise, with Armstrong captaining 4 cups and the Kelly trade being the catalyst that helped the Leafs' winning ways. Sid Smith can be replaced as he played in an unremarkable period for the Leafs, and Drillon, if I remember correctly, was not part of the 1942 cup finals comeback, from being down 3-0. In fact, he was replaced after the Leafs lost the first 3 games, as the Leafs went on to win the next 4.

On defence, I'd replace Pratt with Jimmy Thomson. While I might even entertain Brewer or Baun in Pratt's place, the all time team should have at least one representative from the 40's dynasty on the blueline.

I'd also give the 3rd goalie spot to Lorne Chabot over Potvin, as he helped win the Leafs' 1932 cup, and Potvin didn't. Potvin wasn't remarkable enough after a good 1-2 years. I would've said Cujo had he stayed until the lockout, but he lost that chance when he left the team early.

 

[Prophecy35]

Forwards : I gather that you wanted to come up with actual "real" lines, and plug someone if needed... especially if it's a contemporaneous player.

Basically. I went with lines I knew had been together, at one point or another, and filled in extra players as needed. That way, I don't have to worry about "chemistry issues", unless it was noted that one line did not work well at all.

But a Joliat - Morenz - Lafleur line probably plays better in each player's strengths.

I'm not an expert here, so why do you think that line plays to each player's strengths better? Then I have the problem of where to put Lalonde. After all, he was the first real superstar the Habs had.

A Gainey - Henri - Cournoyer line could be... very fun to watch because there's some ridiculous speed, even if it looks a bit without a direction/orientation.

So, that would mean putting in Gainey and Cournoyer and taking out Lalonde and Shutt? Or was there some other way around that? Shutt was my least "locked" lock, so I don't have major issues with that, however, as I said above, Lalonde was a major superstar.

Defense : I'd rather have Chris Chelios than Ken Reardon. Cleghorn wasn't always a Hab so it's a bit more contentious.

Chelios was great, but Reardon was a five-time post-season all-star (2 firsts, 3 seconds). Granted, that was in a much smaller league, so considering competition might factor in. Interestingly (unless I'm overlooking something) Chelios and Gadsby are the only players "close" to making three of these O6 teams (Chelios: Canadiens, Blackhawks, Wings; Gadsby: Rangers, Blackhawks, Wings).

What do you mean by a "bit more contentious" for Cleghorn? I know he was a controversial player (and did play more games with the Bruins) however, many other players played for multiple teams.

Spares : Exactly as you put (switch everyone I put in the lineup). I still prefer Mats Naslund to Max Pacioretty if the gave is to have any sort of importance.

I don't have much faith in Pacioretty's gamebreakinig ability, so I'm in agreement here.

No room for Dougie on the Leafs team?

He played more games for Toronto than Oates played for Boston

I wouldn't factor that in, as franchises have different needs to fill. On the Bruins, you have Esposito, Cowley, and Schmidt locked in at C, with one spot up for grabs (depending on where Bergeron slots in). However, on the Leafs you have Sundin, Sittler, Keon, Kennedy, and Apps (with Primeau as well), so there are centres playing out of position.

I do think that Gilmour needs a spot. I just don't know who to remove.

You need to un-bold Patrick Sharp and bold Johnny Gottselig.

Absolutely. Gottselig seems to be a careless oversight on my part. I'm also questioning the inclusion of Sharp, as he was, at best, the fourth best player on those Hawks teams at his peak (depending on how you value Seabrook and Hossa). I personally think he was sixth.

Funny, I was also thinking about this yesterday. These are the best scenarios IMO, taking into account chemistry, fit etc, so not just a depth chart.

Boston Bruins

Johnny Bucyk - Phil Esposito - Rick Middleton
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Roy Conacher - Bill Cowley - Cam Neely
Cooney Weiland - Adam Oates - Patrice Bergeron

Zdeno Chara - Bobby Orr
Raymond Bourque - Eddie Shore
Brad Park - Dit Clapper

Frank Brimsek
Tiny Thompson

I'm not sold on Conacher finding a spot, but I do have to admit, he was an oversight for my extras. Weiland (after looking at more information) seems to be deserving as well. Twice leading the playoffs in points, and once leading the regular season in goals.

So, from what I see here, it's Conacher, Weiland, Bergeron (In) and Cashman, Hodge, O'Reilly (Out).

I have no issue with both Weiland and Bergeron (as Bergeron needed a spot on my team anyway).

Do you have an explanation for the line combos?

Chicago Blackhawks

Bobby Hull - Denis Savard - Jeremy Roenick
Roy Conacher - Stan Mikita - Patrick Kane
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Paul Thompson - Jonathan Toews - Steve Larmer

Duncan Keith - Chris Chelios
Doug Wilson - Pierre Pilote
Bill Gadsby - Earl Seibert

Glenn Hall
Charlie Gardiner

Conacher appears again. Have I underrated him by leaving him off both the Bruins and Blackhawks?

What is the rationale for Gadsby over Stapleton? Gardiner over Esposito?

Detroit Red Wings

Ted Lindsay - Sid Abel - Gordie Howe
Syd Howe - Norm Ullman - Steve Yzerman
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Sergei Fedorov
Alex Delvecchio - Marty Barry - Brendan Shanahan

Red Kelly - Nicklas Lidstrom
Bill Quackenbush - Jack Stewart
Ebbie Goodfellow - Marcel Pronovost

Terry Sawchuk
Harry Lumley

So, the only difference here (other than lines and combinations) is Barry over Aurie. No major issues.

Montreal Canadiens

Aurele Joliat - Howie Morenz - Guy Lafleur
Jacques Lemaire - Jean Beliveau - Bernie Geoffrion
Dickie Moore - Henri Richard - Maurice Richard
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Newsy Lalonde

Doug Harvey - Guy Lapointe
Larry Robinson - Serge Savard
Jacques Laperriere - Emile Bouchard

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy

Lemaire in, Shutt out. No issue with that, really. I was on the fence and went with Shutt.

Though he is close, what puts Laperriere over Reardon or Cleghorn? No saying I disagree, but it doesn't seem clear to me.

New York Rangers

Bun Cook - Frank Boucher - Bill Cook
Lynn Patrick - Mark Messier - Andy Bathgate
Cecil Dillon - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Phil Watson - Neil Colville - Bryan Hextall

Ching Johnson - Brad Park
Brian Leetch - Art Coulter
Bill Gadsby - Harry Howell

Henrik Lundqvist
Chuck Rayner

I was considering taking Hadfield off, so this isn't an issue on my end. Watson is a good candidate.

Coulter over Heller makes sense. Heller got a boost from longevity from me, I assume.

The goalies here were the hardest to figure out. Lundqvist was a lock for the starting job (in my view), but everything else was messy. What made you select Rayner?

Toronto Maple Leafs

Busher Jackson - Ted Kennedy - Charlie Conacher
Frank Mahovlich - Syl Apps - Gordie Drillon
Darryl Sittler - Mats Sundin - Babe Dye
Doug Gilmour - Dave Keon - George Armstrong

Borje Salming - Tim Horton
Carl Brewer - King Clancy
Allan Stanley - Jimmy Thomson

Turk Broda
Johnny Bower

Gilmour and Armstrong for Smith and Primeau. Those were my two that were on the fence.

Pratt I wasn't sure about, and Thomson makes sense in his place. However, how much weight does that Hart trophy have?

Cameron was an early great defenceman for the Leafs. Does Brewer outweigh that?

For Leafs, I'd replace Sid Smith and Gordie Drillon with George Armstrong and Red Kelly. And on defense, I'd replace Babe Pratt with Jimmy Thomson.

Armstrong and Kelly were too important to the franchise, with Armstrong captaining 4 cups and the Kelly trade being the catalyst that helped the Leafs' winning ways. Sid Smith can be replaced as he played in an unremarkable period for the Leafs, and Drillon, if I remember correctly, was not part of the 1942 cup finals comeback, from being down 3-0. In fact, he was replaced after the Leafs lost the first 3 games, as the Leafs went on to win the next 4.

On defence, I'd replace Pratt with Jimmy Thomson. While I might even entertain Brewer or Baun in Pratt's place, the all time team should have at least one representative from the 40's dynasty on the blueline.

I'd also give the 3rd goalie spot to Lorne Chabot over Potvin, as he helped win the Leafs' 1932 cup, and Potvin didn't. Potvin wasn't remarkable enough after a good 1-2 years. I would've said Cujo had he stayed until the lockout, but he lost that chance when he left the team early.

Great information! Thanks!

Drillon, despite his playoff issues, was a great player. 3 post-season all-star nods. I have no problem with Armstrong for Smith. Does Kelly's playoff gap beat Drillon's regular season gap?

Thomson for Pratt seems fair.

I would be more likely to put Lumley in over Chabot. Numbers-wise, it seems to be in Lumley's favour. Obviously, it doesn't all come down to numbers, but still.

 

[MXD]

I'm not an expert here, so why do you think that line plays to each player's strengths better? Then I have the problem of where to put Lalonde. After all, he was the first real superstar the Habs had.



So, that would mean putting in Gainey and Cournoyer and taking out Lalonde and Shutt? Or was there some other way around that? Shutt was my least "locked" lock, so I don't have major issues with that, however, as I said above, Lalonde was a major superstar.



Chelios was great, but Reardon was a five-time post-season all-star (2 firsts, 3 seconds). Granted, that was in a much smaller league, so considering competition might factor in. Interestingly (unless I'm overlooking something) Chelios and Gadsby are the only players "close" to making three of these O6 teams (Chelios: Canadiens, Blackhawks, Wings; Gadsby: Rangers, Blackhawks, Wings).

What do you mean by a "bit more contentious" for Cleghorn? I know he was a controversial player (and did play more games with the Bruins) however, many other players played for multiple teams.

Lafleur was a very "balanced" offensive forward, who could score and make plays. Thus great fit with Morenz.

Cleghorn only played four seasons with the Habs, hence why I didn't really want to bring him into this.

Reardon didn't have the best competition at that time. TBH there isn't a bad answer between Habs-Chelios and Reardon.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I'm not sold on Conacher finding a spot, but I do have to admit, he was an oversight for my extras. Weiland (after looking at more information) seems to be deserving as well. Twice leading the playoffs in points, and once leading the regular season in goals.

So, from what I see here, it's Conacher, Weiland, Bergeron (In) and Cashman, Hodge, O'Reilly (Out).

I have no issue with both Weiland and Bergeron (as Bergeron needed a spot on my team anyway).

IMO, Conacher is basically in contention with Cashman for the last spot on the starting lineup. Before I made the post above, I thought Conacher spent a longer period of time with the Bruins, but it looks like he only spent four meaningful seasons with them. But, in those four years, he did finish 1st, 2nd, 2nd, and 7th in goals along with two tenth place scoring finishes. In contrast, Cashman spent over ten seasons with the Bruins, but he accomplished less offensively than Conacher. However, Cashman did bring other elements to his game which we cannot say for Conacher. I guess you could go either way with Conacher or Cashman. It's basically Conacher's four years of superior offense vs. Cashman's longevity and intangibles.

Actually, Barry could be a better option over both of them.

Do you have an explanation for the line combos?

First line: Bucyk is pretty much a superior version of Esposito's real life regular even strength LW linemate Cashman. Middleton adds speed to the line, and he was a pretty versatile player. The point of this line is to complement Esposito.

Second line: Not much to be said. The Kraut Line was the most dominant line in the early 40s, so why not reunite them?

Third line: I reunited the successful Conacher - Cowley combo. Neely is there to add some much needed grit and to act as a defensive conscience.

Fourth line: Bergeron and Weiland were in the upper tier defensively during their respective eras. Oates is the 4th line C, since there's really no other place to put him, but, Oates was actually decent defensively in real life, so he shouldn't look too out of place.

Conacher appears again. Have I underrated him by leaving him off both the Bruins and Blackhawks?

Conacher also spent the same amount of time on the Hawks as he did on the Bruins. Among those four years, he did finish top-10 in points three times (1st, 6th, 10th), and his 1948-49 season is the best season of his career. I see Gottselig was mentioned. Again, like Cashman on the Bruins, it could go either way. The question is also the same: Conacher's offense vs Gottselig's longevity + intangibles.

What is the rationale for Gadsby over Stapleton? Gardiner over Esposito?

Gadsby and Stapleton did spend the same amount of time on the Hawks (eight years). I guess Stapleton over Gadsby does make sense. Better awards record during the regular season and he was better in the playoffs too (though the latter is more due to a lack of opportunity for Gadsby). Never though about it, but Stapleton over Gadsby is what I'll do now.

As for Gardiner > Esposito, Gardiner peaked much higher, and has the superior playoff resume, despite playing on much weaker teams than Esposito did. Before Sawchuk came along, the conversation for GOAT goalies were between him, Vezina, Benedict, and Brimsek.

So, the only difference here (other than lines and combinations) is Barry over Aurie. No major issues.

Looking back, it seems I overestimated Barry's time with the Red Wings. I originally thought he spent the majority of his career with the Red Wings instead of the Bruins, but it's actually the reverse. Aurie could definitely be a better option, however, Barry did have his best season with the Red Wings.

Lemaire in, Shutt out. No issue with that, really. I was on the fence and went with Shutt.

Unless you absolutely want LWs playing LW, and Cs playing C, Lemaire was much better and important than Shutt in real life. Lemaire is pretty much better than Shutt at everything except goal scoring. If you were insistent though on LWs playing LW, Olmstead is a much better option than Shutt. Like Lemaire, he's better than Shutt at everything except goal scoring.

Though he is close, what puts Laperriere over Reardon or Cleghorn? No saying I disagree, but it doesn't seem clear to me.

IMO, Laperriere has a clear advantage over Reardon. Laperriere has a superior AST voting record, and he played longer than Reardon too. As for Cleghorn, he only spent four seasons with the Canadiens. I'm not sure those four seasons are enough to put him over Laperriere since Laperriere's best four seasons are almost as good as Cleghorn's, and he also has longevity on his side.

I was considering taking Hadfield off, so this isn't an issue on my end. Watson is a good candidate.

I would definitely advocate Watson over Hadfield. Watson is much better offensively, and I don't think that Hadfield's intangibles make up for this large gap.

Coulter over Heller makes sense. Heller got a boost from longevity from me, I assume.

Coulter over Heller also gets my full support. Both played at the same time, yet Coulter has a much superior AST voting record, despite being a defensive defenceman while Heller was more oriented offensively.

The goalies here were the hardest to figure out. Lundqvist was a lock for the starting job (in my view), but everything else was messy. What made you select Rayner?

Rayner was a top-3 goalie during the late 40s and early 50s, despite playing on arguably the worst team in the league. Good longevity and arguably the highest peak of all Rangers goalies. His 1950 playoff performance is also arguably the best playoff performance from a losing player.

Pratt I wasn't sure about, and Thomson makes sense in his place. However, how much weight does that Hart trophy have?

Cameron was an early great defenceman for the Leafs. Does Brewer outweigh that?

Like many others, the problem with Pratt is longevity. He only spent four seasons with the Leafs.

Like Pratt, Cameron's problem is longevity. Even with his full career, I'm not sure that Cameron is better than Brewer.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Prophecy35:

I'm unable the quote your post, but re: Red Kelly v Gordie Drillon, I would definitely choose Kelly. Drillon won the Art Ross and I'd have him on my 2nd all time Leaf team, but Kelly was too important to the Leafs dynasty- to me, he's on the pantheon of that team along with Armstrong, Keon, Mahovlich, Horton and Bower. I don't know if the Leafs win 4 cups without him. They probably win some, but I don't know about 4. He also helped spark Mahovlich reach his offensive potential.

I could see the argument for any suggestion at 3rd goalie. After Broda and Bower, it really does become wide open to interpretation.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Chicago Blackhawks​

Bobby Hull - Stan Mikita - Kenny Wharram
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Jeremy Roenick - Denis Savard - Steve Larmer
Paul Thompson - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane​

Extras: Tony Amonte, Patrick Sharp, Johnny Gottselig, Eric Nesterenko, Dennis Hull, Ed Litzenberger, Pit Martin, Mush March, Marian Hossa

Pierre Pilote - Duncan Keith
Chris Chelios - Doug Wilson
Pat Stapleton - Earl Seibert​

Extras: Elmer Vasko, Bill White, Brent Seabrook, Bill Gadsby, Keith Magnuson, Bob Murray, Doug Jarrett, Phil Russell

Glenn Hall
Tony Esposito
Charlie Gardiner​

Extras: Ed Belfour

Most of your players are good, but I don't agree with the setups you have for a lot of them. Too focused on real-life chemistry than getting the best players on the ice. A lot of D on the wrong side or with partners where chemistry could be better with someone else. I see you have some players out of their natural position, I'll do that some, but not to an extreme. Here's how I'd redo my Hawks...


Bobby Hull - Stan Mikita - Patrick Kane
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Jeremy Roenick
Paul Thompson - Denis Savard - Steve Larmer
Johnny Gottselig - Jonathan Toews - Marian Hossa

Pierre Pilote - Earl Seibert
Duncan Keith - Chris Chelios
Doug Wilson - Bill White

Glen Hall
Charlie Gardiner

PP1: Roenick - Mikita - Kane - Pilote - Hull
PP2: D. Bentley - M. Bentley - Savard - Chelios - Wilson

PK1: Toews - Hossa - Chelios - Seibert
PK2 Mikita - Gottselig - Keith - White

 

[Prophecy35]

Cleghorn only played four seasons with the Habs, hence why I didn't really want to bring him into this.

It would make him the player with the shortest Habs career on the team. I see that argument, especially when there are so many quality options.

Reardon didn't have the best competition at that time. TBH there isn't a bad answer between Habs-Chelios and Reardon.

Quality of competition is something that has always made things difficult to interpret. You can't really look at stats/awards/voting at face value, as a lot of context is needed. Were the post war years especially weak for d competition?

IMO, Conacher is basically in contention with Cashman for the last spot on the starting lineup. Before I made the post above, I thought Conacher spent a longer period of time with the Bruins, but it looks like he only spent four meaningful seasons with them. But, in those four years, he did finish 1st, 2nd, 2nd, and 7th in goals along with two tenth place scoring finishes. In contrast, Cashman spent over ten seasons with the Bruins, but he accomplished less offensively than Conacher. However, Cashman did bring other elements to his game which we cannot say for Conacher. I guess you could go either way with Conacher or Cashman. It's basically Conacher's four years of superior offense vs. Cashman's longevity and intangibles.

It's a tough call. Cashman is someone that you immediately identify with the Bruins. He was also no slouch playing-wise and brought "intangibles" to the table. I'm not sure where to go here. I guess whatever player doesn't "make the cut" would be one of the scratches. What would that look like? O'Reilly, Cashman/Conacher, and Hodge?

Actually, Barry could be a better option over both of them.

I'm wondering about Barry as well.

Conacher also spent the same amount of time on the Hawks as he did on the Bruins. Among those four years, he did finish top-10 in points three times (1st, 6th, 10th), and his 1948-49 season is the best season of his career. I see Gottselig was mentioned. Again, like Cashman on the Bruins, it could go either way. The question is also the same: Conacher's offense vs Gottselig's longevity + intangibles.

I'm not familiar enough with Gottselig to comment. It does seem like a similar situation with Cashman/Conacher.

As for Gardiner > Esposito, Gardiner peaked much higher, and has the superior playoff resume, despite playing on much weaker teams than Esposito did. Before Sawchuk came along, the conversation for GOAT goalies were between him, Vezina, Benedict, and Brimsek.

Fair enough.

Unless you absolutely want LWs playing LW, and Cs playing C, Lemaire was much better and important than Shutt in real life. Lemaire is pretty much better than Shutt at everything except goal scoring. If you were insistent though on LWs playing LW, Olmstead is a much better option than Shutt. Like Lemaire, he's better than Shutt at everything except goal scoring.

I'm not that stuck on proper positions. After all, with the high calibre of players that are selected, I'm sure many could slot into any role they are given. So, in your view, it's Lemaire > Olmstead > Shutt?

IMO, Laperriere has a clear advantage over Reardon. Laperriere has a superior AST voting record, and he played longer than Reardon too. As for Cleghorn, he only spent four seasons with the Canadiens. I'm not sure those four seasons are enough to put him over Laperriere since Laperriere's best four seasons are almost as good as Cleghorn's, and he also has longevity on his side.

When I initially started putting together the teams, I had Laperriere in the last slot. However, I ended up replacing him with Reardon. I could go either way, but their voting records are comparable, with Laperriere facing better competition.

I would definitely advocate Watson over Hadfield. Watson is much better offensively, and I don't think that Hadfield's intangibles make up for this large gap.

The main reason I left Hadfield was to preserve the line. BUT Watson seems to be the better option.

Rayner was a top-3 goalie during the late 40s and early 50s, despite playing on arguably the worst team in the league. Good longevity and arguably the highest peak of all Rangers goalies. His 1950 playoff performance is also arguably the best playoff performance from a losing player.

Makes sense to me. What about the others? Who would be the #3?

Like Pratt, Cameron's problem is longevity. Even with his full career, I'm not sure that Cameron is better than Brewer.

With Cameron, considering how the league developed, his time in the NHA has to be considered. He played 5 additional seasons with Toronto while in the NHA. It seems Brewer would have had greater competition, but Cameron was an early defensive star for them, as far as I can gather.

Red Kelly v Gordie Drillon, I would definitely choose Kelly. Drillon won the Art Ross and I'd have him on my 2nd all time Leaf team, but Kelly was too important to the Leafs dynasty- to me, he's on the pantheon of that team along with Armstrong, Keon, Mahovlich, Horton and Bower. I don't know if the Leafs win 4 cups without him. They probably win some, but I don't know about 4. He also helped spark Mahovlich reach his offensive potential.

I know it isn't all about numbers, but I looked at Kelly's playoff record with the Leafs and it surprised me. Over the time he was there, he led the team in total points and points-per-game in the playoffs. Considering other intangible factors (he was a d-man before after all) I'm leaning toward putting him in.

Drillon, even with his lack of clutch play, was still solid. While on the Leafs, he was only topped by Apps overall in both the regular season and playoffs. No shame in coming second to him.

I could see the argument for any suggestion at 3rd goalie. After Broda and Bower, it really does become wide open to interpretation.

Agreed. There are no stand-outs beyond the first two.

Most of your players are good, but I don't agree with the setups you have for a lot of them. Too focused on real-life chemistry than getting the best players on the ice. A lot of D on the wrong side or with partners where chemistry could be better with someone else. I see you have some players out of their natural position, I'll do that some, but not to an extreme. Here's how I'd redo my Hawks...

Thanks for noticing that! I did focus on real-life chemistry, because it is a "safety net" so to speak. I wanted to avoid making ridiculous combinations.

I always wonder about putting d-men on the right side. How do you go about finding that info? It isn't as simple as LW/C/RW. Are there any websites, or is it just from experience/watching the team? I usually just slot them in, hoping I get some right.

Bobby Hull - Stan Mikita - Patrick Kane
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Jeremy Roenick
Paul Thompson - Denis Savard - Steve Larmer
Johnny Gottselig - Jonathan Toews - Marian Hossa

This looks good. However, I wonder about Mosienko. What is the justification for taking him off? And with Hossa, is there something I am missing? From what I've seen and know, he is close, but not quite there. However, I admittedly don't follow the Hawks that much currently.

Pierre Pilote - Earl Seibert
Duncan Keith - Chris Chelios
Doug Wilson - Bill White

That last slot seems to be contentious. I had Stapleton, another had Gadsby, and you have White. What are the merits of each? It's not clearcut, as far as I can tell.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Thanks for noticing that! I did focus on real-life chemistry, because it is a "safety net" so to speak. I wanted to avoid making ridiculous combinations.

I always wonder about putting d-men on the right side. How do you go about finding that info? It isn't as simple as LW/C/RW. Are there any websites, or is it just from experience/watching the team? I usually just slot them in, hoping I get some right.

Generally any Dman should be fine playing his "natural side" (i.e. a RHS playing RD), but many LHS Dmen played the right side just fine (it very rarely happens the other way because there are much fewer RHS Dmen so they usually get to play the right side). Here is a link to an old thread that shows which side the Dmen from the Top 60 project played: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1960049

This looks good. However, I wonder about Mosienko. What is the justification for taking him off? And with Hossa, is there something I am missing? From what I've seen and know, he is close, but not quite there. However, I admittedly don't follow the Hawks that much currently.

I don't think Mosienko has a case over first 3 RW's, so it's basically him vs. Hossa for a 4th line role. IMO Hossa's great two-way game is better suited for this role, and he can play the PK. If Mosienko gets slotted in there, who plays the PK? So it's more a matter of filling a role than just a simple "who was the better Hawk?"

That last slot seems to be contentious. I had Stapleton, another had Gadsby, and you have White. What are the merits of each? It's not clearcut, as far as I can tell.

I felt Gadsby's career as a Hawk wasn't quite as good as the other two, his best years were really as a Ranger. Stapleton and White are close, but I'd much rather prefer White for this role. You're looking for a guy to play the right side next to Doug Wilson, who is an offensive minded defenseman. White is a defensive Dman and a RHS, pretty much perfect for that role. He also fits in nice on the right side of your 2nd PK unit.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I think Earl Seibert gets some recognition for his time on the Rangers, and is easily a better candidate than guys like Beck or Girardi or Ruotsalainen.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I'm wondering about Barry as well.

Honestly, I would go ahead and say Barry is the definitive answer for that last LW spot.

I'm not that stuck on proper positions. After all, with the high calibre of players that are selected, I'm sure many could slot into any role they are given. So, in your view, it's Lemaire > Olmstead > Shutt?

Yep.

Makes sense to me. What about the others? Who would be the #3?

Eddie Giacomin

With Cameron, considering how the league developed, his time in the NHA has to be considered. He played 5 additional seasons with Toronto while in the NHA. It seems Brewer would have had greater competition, but Cameron was an early defensive star for them, as far as I can gather.

The Toronto team in the NHA isn't affiliated with the present day Maple Leafs. They became defunct when the NHA folded. The Arenas/St. Patricks/Maple Leafs are a different franchise.

 

[Prophecy35]

Generally any Dman should be fine playing his "natural side" (i.e. a RHS playing RD), but many LHS Dmen played the right side just fine (it very rarely happens the other way because there are much fewer RHS Dmen so they usually get to play the right side). Here is a link to an old thread that shows which side the Dmen from the Top 60 project played: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1960049

Thanks for the link! I've updated teams based on that and shuffled around pairings. Anything beyond that list?

I don't think Mosienko has a case over first 3 RW's, so it's basically him vs. Hossa for a 4th line role. IMO Hossa's great two-way game is better suited for this role, and he can play the PK. If Mosienko gets slotted in there, who plays the PK? So it's more a matter of filling a role than just a simple "who was the better Hawk?"

That makes sense. Obviously, these teams won't need energy/grind lines, however, having capable defensive forwards is essential.

I felt Gadsby's career as a Hawk wasn't quite as good as the other two, his best years were really as a Ranger. Stapleton and White are close, but I'd much rather prefer White for this role. You're looking for a guy to play the right side next to Doug Wilson, who is an offensive minded defenseman. White is a defensive Dman and a RHS, pretty much perfect for that role. He also fits in nice on the right side of your 2nd PK unit.

All good points. Stapleton was 6/6 if I were to rank the defensemen, with others close behind. White does fit better there if you want to have a balance for Wilson.

I think Earl Seibert gets some recognition for his time on the Rangers, and is easily a better candidate than guys like Beck or Girardi or Ruotsalainen.

With a bunch of players, I added them as "possible" additionals. I wasn't considering including Beck, Girardi, or Ruotsalainen on the main team, unless I missed something when gathering information. Seibert seems to be an oversight in those additionals, though I don't know if he could crack the main roster.

Honestly, I would go ahead and say Barry is the definitive answer for that last LW spot.

Starting to seem like the best fit.

Eddie Giacomin

That was my thinking as well. Richter is a hard one to leave off due to reputation and playoff heroics though.

The Toronto team in the NHA isn't affiliated with the present day Maple Leafs. They became defunct when the NHA folded. The Arenas/St. Patricks/Maple Leafs are a different franchise.

I did some quick and dirty research about that. Though wikipedia is not an authority, it lists the Blueshirts as part of the chain of teams leading to the present day Maple Leafs. The Blueshirts retained 7 players from the NHA to NHL transfer, however, there were major ownership disputes and other politics going on. 1917-18 was essentially a direct link to the Blueshirts, while the team in 1919 was separate. The current Leafs do not recognize the Blueshirts as part of Leafs history (the page makes a note that the Canadiens and, oddly enough, Senators, claim their NHA history).

Obviously, if the current Leafs do not claim the history, then it wouldn't seem right to credit that. However, Cameron was a constant on all those Toronto teams, even with all the ownership and rights concerns. I'm not sure if there is an exact comparable in NHL history, as franchises have either completely folded, or transferred in one way or another.

For example, The Oilers in the WHA are directly linked with the Oilers in the NHL. They seem to claim that history as part of the current team.

The Jets technically transferred to the Coyotes, simply moving cities and retaining players. If I'm correct, the Coyotes have Hawerchuk's number retired (or did?). Now, the current Jets have no connection to the old Jets, WHA or NHL. However, they are using old jerseys and seem to claim some past players/history.

The NBA also introduced a complicated situation with the Charlotte Hornets and Bobcats. The Hornets went to New Orleans (2002), and eventually became the New Orleans Pelicans. The Charlotte Bobcats (2005) were created with no connection to the old franchise. Now, we have the Charlotte Hornets again, who have officially reclaimed seemingly ALL the history of the Charlotte Hornets (ex. player data is considered separate for the Charlotte Hornets and New Orleans, even though it was a direct transfer).

Bottom line: It's all very messy and, honestly, arbitrary.

 

[mrhockey193195]

With a bunch of players, I added them as "possible" additionals. I wasn't considering including Beck, Girardi, or Ruotsalainen on the main team, unless I missed something when gathering information. Seibert seems to be an oversight in those additionals, though I don't know if he could crack the main roster.

Completely agree! Sorry for the brevity of my post, I was posting from my phone. I think Seibert should be an additional, not in the top 6. Overall, your Ranger roster looks excellent.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I did some quick and dirty research about that. Though wikipedia is not an authority, it lists the Blueshirts as part of the chain of teams leading to the present day Maple Leafs. The Blueshirts retained 7 players from the NHA to NHL transfer, however, there were major ownership disputes and other politics going on. 1917-18 was essentially a direct link to the Blueshirts, while the team in 1919 was separate. The current Leafs do not recognize the Blueshirts as part of Leafs history (the page makes a note that the Canadiens and, oddly enough, Senators, claim their NHA history).

Obviously, if the current Leafs do not claim the history, then it wouldn't seem right to credit that. However, Cameron was a constant on all those Toronto teams, even with all the ownership and rights concerns. I'm not sure if there is an exact comparable in NHL history, as franchises have either completely folded, or transferred in one way or another.

For example, The Oilers in the WHA are directly linked with the Oilers in the NHL. They seem to claim that history as part of the current team.

The Jets technically transferred to the Coyotes, simply moving cities and retaining players. If I'm correct, the Coyotes have Hawerchuk's number retired (or did?). Now, the current Jets have no connection to the old Jets, WHA or NHL. However, they are using old jerseys and seem to claim some past players/history.

The NBA also introduced a complicated situation with the Charlotte Hornets and Bobcats. The Hornets went to New Orleans (2002), and eventually became the New Orleans Pelicans. The Charlotte Bobcats (2005) were created with no connection to the old franchise. Now, we have the Charlotte Hornets again, who have officially reclaimed seemingly ALL the history of the Charlotte Hornets (ex. player data is considered separate for the Charlotte Hornets and New Orleans, even though it was a direct transfer).

Bottom line: It's all very messy and, honestly, arbitrary.

Are you familiar with the major pro Western Hockey League that existed up until 1926? When the WHL folded, the WHL teams sold their players to the NHL. This was also the year the NHL introduced three new teams: the Detroit Cougars, NY Rangers and Chicago Black Hawks. The Cougars/Red Wings bought almost the entire roster of the Victoria Cougars, while the Black Hawks did the same with the Portland Rosebuds. Even though, the initial rosters of the Cougars/Red Wings and Black Hawks consisted almost entirely of players from the Cougars and Rosebuds, they are not considered the same franchise. The rights of the Cougars and Rosebuds teams were not sold to the owners of the Detroit and Chicago teams, and this is the important part. This is similar to the situation with the Blueshirts and Arenas. This situation is a little more confusing since both teams came from the same city. Both team more or less had the same players, yet Eddie Livingstone never sold his team to the Arena company, so the Arenas and Blueshirts are two different franchises.

You mention the NHL Oilers/WHA Oilers and the Jets/Coyotes. Again, they had the same players, but this is different from the Blueshirts/Arenas situation. The Jets didn't simply sell Phoenix their players, but they also sold the rights of the franchise to Phoenix. As for the Oilers, Pocklington retained the rights of the Oilers, and he simply changed leagues when the WHA folded. They lost almost all their players, but the "documents" for the WHA Oilers and the NHL Oilers are the same.

So moral of the story is: If the owner of franchise X sold the rights of franchise X to a different owner, then it's still franchise X, regardless of geographic location/league etc.

If the owner never sold the rights to franchise X, well, the owner still owns franchise X for one, and any other franchise, even if they're from the same city, cannot also be franchise X.

That's the one constant I'm seeing in how the NHL handles franchise continuity (not sure about NBA). Sure, the new Jets can make connections to Hull, and Hawerchuk, just like the new Senators are putting old SC banners of the original Senators in the rafters, but officially, the new teams have no connection to the original teams, except for geographical location. I'm not exactly in tune with business terms, so I hope this all makes sense.

 

[whcanuck]

I rarely post anymore. In fact, I haven't logged on in over a year. After seeing threads talking about all-time national teams, I thought about my old "project" to compile teams from various franchises. To start, I only wanted to focus on original six franchises.

Players in plain text are those I was leaning toward making a lock. Players in bold are borderline. Players in italics are just additional that came to mind (some are very far from making the team).

I got lazy and stopped giving explanations. Didn't have a lot of time to make the post. Forgive me for that.

Feel free to give honest critique and express your opinions! I try to stay informed, however, I'm sure plenty of posters here know more than I do!

Here is what I came up with:

Montreal Canadiens
Toe Blake - Elmer Lach - Maurice Richard
Aurel Joliat - Howie Morenz - Newsy Lalonde
Dickie Moore - Jean Beliveau - Bernie Geoffrion
Steve Shutt - Henri Richard - Guy LaFleur​

I found this to be one of the easiest forward lineups to create. There are some omissions, however, these players are definitely the standouts. The only player I'm not 100% on is Steve Shutt. His chemistry with Lafleur put him in over someone like Cournoyer, for example.

Extras: Bob Gainey, Yvon Cournoyer, Jacques Lemaire, Claude Provost, Saku Koivu, Pete Mahovlich, Guy Carbonneau, Max Pacioretty

Gainey, Cournoyer, and Lemaire were hard to leave out of the lineup. They all made major contributions to the Habs. Provost is borderline based on his defensive reputation and tenure. However, what separates Provost from Carbonneau? What separates those two from Gainey? After all, they are all here based on defensive play. Tough call here.

Butch Bouchard - Doug Harvey
Serge Savard - Larry Robinson
Guy Lapointe - Ken Reardon​

Nothing much to say here. There are some extras that are "knocking at the door" but I feel as though this top-six will all make my final team, even if some end up as scratches.

Extras: J.C. Tremblay, Tom Johnson, Sylvio Mantha, Sprague Leghorn, Jacques Laperriere, Andrei Markov, Jean-Guy Talbot, Chris Chelios, P.K. Subban

Out of these additionals, the player who I think is most likely to make it is Sprague Cleghorn. Although, I do want to have two to three extra defensemen on the final team.

Jacques Plante
Patrick Roy
Ken Dryden​

There may be changes with the order, but these goalies were easy locks

Extras: Bill Durnan, Georges Vezina, George Hainsworth, Carey Price

Toronto Maple Leafs​

Busher Jackson - Joe Primeau - Charlie Conacher
Sid Smith - Ted Kennedy - Babe Dye
Frank Mahovlich - Dave Keon - Darryl Sittler
Gordie Drillon - Syl Apps - Mats Sundin​

Though they are VERY close, I'm not sure about both Primeau and Smith. How much of their success can be attributed to their line mates? I feel as though I am being overly harsh though. Thoughts?

Extras: George Armstrong, Doug Gilmour, Bob Pulford, Rick Vaive, Ace Bailey, Lanny McDonald, Ron Ellis, Phil Kessel

Borje Salming - Harry Cameron
King Clancy - Babe Pratt
Tim Horton - Allan Stanley​

Extras: Bob Baun, Carl Brewer, Jimmy Thomson, Red Horner, Hap Day, Tomas Kaberle, Ian Turnbull, Bryan McCabe, Jim McKenny

Turk Broda
Johnny Bower
Felix Potvin​

Extras: Harry Lumley, Curtis Joseph

Boston Bruins​

Wayne Cashman - Phil Esposito - Ken Hodge
John Bucyk - Adam Oates - Cam Neely
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Terry O'Reilly - Bill Cowley - Rick Middleton​

Extras: Patrice Bergeron, Peter McNab, Don Marcotte, Joe Thornton, Cooney Weiland, Marty Barry, Jean Ratelle, Barry Pederson, Don McKenney, David Krejci, Glen Murray, Fred Stanfield, Jason Allison, Brad Marchand

Bergeron is definitely on the team. I just don't know where to put him.

Bobby Orr - Eddie Shore
Ray Bourque - Brad Park
Dit Clapper - Zdeno Chara​

Extras: Jack Crawford, Flash Hollett, Fern Flaman, Lionel Hitchman, Bill Quackenbush, Dallas Smith, Glen Wesley, Leo Boivin

Frank Brimsek
Tiny Thompson
Tim Thomas​

Extras: Gerry Cheevers, Tuukka Rask, Eddie Johnston

Chicago Blackhawks​

Bobby Hull - Stan Mikita - Kenny Wharram
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Jeremy Roenick - Denis Savard - Steve Larmer
Paul Thompson - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane​

Extras: Tony Amonte, Patrick Sharp, Johnny Gottselig, Eric Nesterenko, Dennis Hull, Ed Litzenberger, Pit Martin, Mush March, Marian Hossa

Pierre Pilote - Duncan Keith
Chris Chelios - Doug Wilson
Pat Stapleton - Earl Seibert​

Extras: Elmer Vasko, Bill White, Brent Seabrook, Bill Gadsby, Keith Magnuson, Bob Murray, Doug Jarrett, Phil Russell

Glenn Hall
Tony Esposito
Charlie Gardiner​

Extras: Ed Belfour

Detroit Red Wings​

Ted Lindsay - Sid Abel - Gordie Howe
Brendan Shanahan - Steve Yzerman - Sergei Fedorov
Alex Delvecchio - Norm Ullman - Syd Howe
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Larry Aurie​

Extras: Marty Barry, Herbie Lewis, Tomas Holmstrom, Slava Kozlov, Johan Franzen, John Ogrodnick, Igor Larionov, Marcel Dionne, Mickey Redmond

Red Kelly - Marcel Pronovost
Nicklas Lidstrom - Jack Stewart
Bill Quackenbush - Ebbie Goodfellow​

Extras: Vladimir Konstantinov, Chris Chelios, Reed Larson, Nicklas Kronwall, Gary Bergman, Brian Rafalski, Paul Coffey, Larry Murphy, Bill Gadsby

Terry Sawchuk
Harry Lumley
Chris Osgood​

Extras: Roger Crozier

New York Rangers​

Bun Cook - Frank Boucher - Bill Cook
Lynn Patrick - Mark Messier - Andy Bathgate
Vic Hadfield - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Cecil Dillon - Neil Colville - Bryan Hextall​

Extras: Walt Tkaczuk, Camille Henry, Phil Watson, Dean Prentice, Adam Graves, Steve Vickers, Phil Esposito, Phil Goyette, Jaromir Jagr

Brian Leetch - Harry Howell
Brad Park - Bill Gadsby
Ott Heller - Ching Johnson​

Extras: Art Coulter, Ryan McDonagh, Barry Beck, Jim Neilson, Ron Greschner, James Patrick, Rod Seiling, Dan Girardi, Babe Pratt, Dave Maloney, Reijo Ruotsalainen, Marc Staal

Henrik Lundqvist
Ed Giacomin
Mike Richter

Extras: Chuck Rayner, John Vanbiesbrouck, Dave Kerr, Gump Worsley, John Ross Roach

Good selections, but I would have put Eddie Belfour in as one of the top 3 Blackhawks goalies. No Cup, but he won two Vezinas, a Calder and was a 2x First-Team All Star. Also would have squeezed Red Kelly into the top 6 Toronto D...most Cups by a player never to play for the Habs

 

[seventieslord]

Good selections, but I would have put Eddie Belfour in as one of the top 3 Blackhawks goalies. No Cup, but he won two Vezinas, a Calder and was a 2x First-Team All Star. Also would have squeezed Red Kelly into the top 6 Toronto D...most Cups by a player never to play for the Habs

Eddie is great, but the worst of those three goalies, Esposito, achieved more in a hawks uniform than Belfour did, and it's not even close.

(side note, you're kinda double dipping with the accomplishments there, as the Vezina and first team all-star tend to go hand in hand, and Calder is really meaningless in a discussion of a player's all-time legacy).

 

[Killion]

Eddie is great, but the worst of those three goalies, Esposito, achieved more in a hawks uniform than Belfour did, and it's not even close.

Could be whcanuck "prefers" Belfour to Esposito as I personally do. Wasnt a fan of Tony Esposito's. Much preferred Belfours technical game & would rank him in the #2 slot behind Hall. Always had a problem with Tony 'O'. Considered him "middlin" at best. Cheater. Sensationalist. Good, not great.

 

[Canadiens1958]

1971 and 1973 plus 1975 to 1979

Could be whcanuck "prefers" Belfour to Esposito as I personally do. Wasnt a fan of Tony Esposito's. Much preferred Belfours technical game & would rank him in the #2 slot behind Hall. Always had a problem with Tony 'O'. Considered him "middlin" at best. Cheater. Sensationalist. Good, not great.

Tony Esposito is very overrated. Poor in the playoffs.

Demonstratably cost the 1971 Hawks an SC muffing a shot from outside the blue line from Jacques Lemaire in game 7 with the Hawks up 2-0, losing 3-2. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

1973 very weak in the finals against Montreal.

1975 to 1979, 16 consecutive playoff game loses. No HHOF goalie comes close.

 

[Killion]

Tony Esposito is very overrated. Poor in the playoffs.

Demonstratably cost the 1971 Hawks an SC muffing a shot from outside the blue line from Jacques Lemaire in game 7 with the Hawks up 2-0, losing 3-2. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

1973 very weak in the finals against Montreal.

1975 to 1979, 16 consecutive playoff game loses. No HHOF goalie comes close.

Never saw the attraction in this guy beyond the obvious hybrid "pupil of Hall" comparisons, a sort of harkening backwards, of glory days... bad imitation, distorted reflection through the rear-view of old Warhorse Glenn. Esposito ever the pupil, never the professor... Glenn Hall another Goaltender who's Playoff resume' less than stellar. Over-played as was Esposito and playing the style they did, beyond taxing on the body. That they had little left in the tank hardly surprising come Playoff time. Esposito however, he wasnt even the RS Goalie Hall was. A lot of holes in his game. With a lighter load, schedule I'm pretty sure have he'd have had a far more successful career in so far as total team success is concerned, and thats what really matters at the end of the day.

 

[seventieslord]

I did say Esposito was the worst of the three goalies the OP named. I'm just saying that despite that he still achieved way more as a Hawk than Belfour did.

 

[Killion]

I did say Esposito was the worst of the three goalies the OP named. I'm just saying that despite that he still achieved way more as a Hawk than Belfour did.

Oh ya, I did catch that 70's.... Esposito's tenure in Chicago was twice that of Belfour's so you'd kind of expect it. However to "my critical eye" technically IMO Belfour was a superior netminder so if I was picking my Top 3 from Chicago he'd be in the mix, afraid Tony simply wouldnt make the cut. I'd also have no problem whatsoever in starting him over Hall depending on what kind of team I had playing on the back-end & up-front.