All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

[raynman]

Gardiner wasn't that good when he was healthy, and he's hurt so often that you just cannot go into a season paying this guy $4m when you know there is a significant chance that he ends the year on the IR. As a cap team, we have to be smarter with our cap spending than that.

At least there are 93 days left till the season starts.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Gardiner wasn't that good when he was healthy, and he's hurt so often that you just cannot go into a season paying this guy $4m when you know there is a significant chance that he ends the year on the IR. As a cap team, we have to be smarter with our cap spending than that.

So be pissed at the team for giving him the contract. Don’t be pissed at the man for wanting to play hockey.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Other than having too many wingers that prefer to play on the right side instead of the left side, why wouldn't we be a destination for p Kane to waive his no trade to join?

Chicago wants draft picks or really young assets for full rebuild not a necas... if you can't give up picks or youngest draft assets for a max retained Patty Kane,......

Just for information’s sake, Patrick is only owed $6.9M in actual dollars for the upcoming season. Only $2.9M if Chicago pays his bonus soon.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Pittsburgh qualifying Kapanen.

 

[cptjeff]

The Gardiner hate is really overblown. He has had some pretty bad gaffes don't get me wrong but there were stretches where he was looking like a legit PP QB which is kinda what we need in addition to the hole needed to be filled in 1RD. I think the question mark for him is if he stays healthy and if his injury was the cause for his gaffes.

Gardiner had some good stretches of play, but it was way, way, way more than just gaffes. He was flat out terrible for the vast majority of his tenure and his poor play frequently cost the team games.

I'd like to see the Gardiner we had during good stretches of play. He was genuinely a very good player for those maybe two dozen game stretches. But if he's not actually in good enough physical shape to play that game and f***ed over the team with a comeback attempt, he deserves all the hate he'll get and far more.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Gardiner wasn't that good when he was healthy, and he's hurt so often that you just cannot go into a season paying this guy $4m when you know there is a significant chance that he ends the year on the IR. As a cap team, we have to be smarter with our cap spending than that.

Sure, but that's the cost of signing an oft-injured player. It's no different than going into the season with Raanta, right?

The only difference is that Gardiner was gone for a while so we kind of got used to thinking of the team without him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Gardiner had some good stretches of play, but it was way, way, way more than just gaffes. He was flat out terrible for the vast majority of his tenure and his poor play frequently cost the team games.

I'd like to see the Gardiner we had during good stretches of play. He was genuinely a very good player for those two dozen game stretches. But if he's not actually in good enough physical shape to play that game and f***ed over the team with a comeback attempt, he deserves all the hate he'll get and far more.

Is it really a comeback attempt, though? He got injured, had surgery, healed from the surgery, and has been cleared to play again. The rules are what they are... when the doctor says he's no longer injured, the player is re-activated. It's not like he retired for a year and decided he missed the game.

 

[A Star is Burns]

A lot of folks took for granted he might be able to return, to the point that him being an LTIRetire guy was echoed as a fact. I'm guessing many of those folks are the ones that are taking it the hardest.

 

[Svechhammer]

A lot of folks took for granted he might be able to return, to the point that him being an LTIRetire guy was echoed as a fact. I'm guessing many of those folks are the ones that are taking it the hardest.

If the goal is to win the Cup, having Gardiner pull this kind of shit now when we're going to be up against the cap while also needing to renegotiate with multiple players in free agency is pretty much the worst timing he could. We can't buy him out, we can't put him on LTIR, we can't even trade him unless we over pay someone to take him off our hands. Its just a raw dog boning by a guy who hasn't been healthy in about 5 years.

We've had him employed for what, 3 years now, and he's been good for only a handful of games. The majority of the rest is littered with mental and physical screw ups and long stretches of being injured or scratched. Not what you want out of a $4m guy who is a toxic asset to try and offload.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Is it really a comeback attempt, though? He got injured, had surgery, healed from the surgery, and has been cleared to play again. The rules are what they are... when the doctor says he's no longer injured, the player is re-activated. It's not like he retired for a year and decided he missed the game.

Well, the issue is that everyone and their mother had basically assumed he was LTIR retired. So yes, in retrospect I suppose it is indeed not like he did that. But at the time, I think we all assumed that was the situation. So now that’s what it feels like.

 

[A Star is Burns]

If the goal is to win the Cup, having Gardiner pull this kind of shit now when we're going to be up against the cap while also needing to renegotiate with multiple players in free agency is pretty much the worst timing he could. We can't buy him out, we can't put him on LTIR, we can't even trade him unless we over pay someone to take him off our hands. Its just a raw dog boning by a guy who hasn't been healthy in about 5 years.

We've had him employed for what, 3 years now, and he's been good for only a handful of games. The majority of the rest is littered with mental and physical screw ups and long stretches of being injured or scratched. Not what you want out of a $4m guy who is a toxic asset to try and offload.

I'd refer you to @tarheelhockey's post above. If he's healthy enough that this is where we're at, it is what it is. I don't like it any more than you, but this was always a possibility and it's not like the guy is actively trying to bone us. The borg signed it and either has to work around it and hope for the best or do what plenty of other teams have done and hold their noses while paying to get rid of it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well, the issue is that everyone and their mother had basically assumed he was LTIR retired. So yes, in retrospect I suppose it is indeed not like he did that. But at the time, I think we all assumed that was the situation. So now that’s what it feels like.

That makes sense and I have similar "awww shit here we go" feelings about it, but the guy wasn't LTIRetired. Which is why I don't understand the angle below:

having Gardiner pull this kind of shit now... Its just a raw dog boning by a guy who hasn't been healthy

What kind of shit is he pulling? Recovering from surgery?

To be clear -- there is not a way to keep him on LTIR under these conditions. He's not a Pronger who would've been pushing 40 by the time he got healthy. He just turned 32 this July. A doctor has cleared him to resume play. The only way to get him off the payroll is for him to straight-up retire and forfeit $4.5 million.

Canes have the option to trade him or buy him out if they don't want the cap hit. But that's a Canes problem, not a Jake Gardiner problem. He's literally just sitting there being recovered from an injury, that's all.

 

[bleedgreen]

Jake is capable of being the second pp guy, if he’s healthy he brings something to the table. He just isn’t an ideal Rod third pair guy unless he’s put with a real mean sob to compensate.

I don’t like the effect on the salary cap but I don’t mind having Jake back if he can play. Though just like I don’t believe we’ll see a big name ufa signing until I’ve actually seen us do it once, I don’t believe Rod is pumped to have a third pair with Jake on it. He, unlike the front office with ufa’s…..may not have a choice.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Jake is capable of being the second pp guy, if he’s healthy he brings something to the table. He just isn’t an ideal Rod third pair guy unless he’s put with a real mean sob to compensate.

I don’t like the effect on the salary cap but I don’t mind having Jake back if he can play. Though just like I don’t believe we’ll see a big name ufa signing until I’ve actually seen us do it once, I don’t believe Rod is pumped to have a third pair with Jake on it. He, unlike the front office with ufa’s…..may not have a choice.

I prefer we just trade him if it's not too hard, but if we do keep Gards I agree he's an upgrade over Slavin on PP2, just need to find a TDA replacement for PP1. For 3rd pair, I'd be happy with a Gardiner/Zadorov pairing, think that would be an upgrade on this year.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

What kind of shit is he pulling? Recovering from surgery?

Yeah. Screw that guy.

Jake is capable of being the second pp guy, if he’s healthy he brings something to the table. He just isn’t an ideal Rod third pair guy unless he’s put with a real mean sob to compensate.

I don’t like the effect on the salary cap but I don’t mind having Jake back if he can play. Though just like I don’t believe we’ll see a big name ufa signing until I’ve actually seen us do it once, I don’t believe Rod is pumped to have a third pair with Jake on it. He, unlike the front office with ufa’s…..may not have a choice.

I'm basically with you here. If he can play and be even some shell of what he was for us before (note I say "for us", I'm not even talking about being the clear top 4 guy he once was), it's fine. It's a more expensive than expected 3rd pair solution.

The sucky thing will be if he tries to come back, can't, and then gets LTIRed again. Because now we have to keep him as a healthy guy all offseason, assuming he's going to be a part of the roster, then if he ends up not being able to play, we weren't able to take advantage of that knowledge during the offseason when we could've done something about it.

Basically, this whole thing is a coin flip that could've been avoided by Jake Gardiner simply not getting healthy. Good for him, maybe good maybe very bad for us.

 

[MinJaBen]

If the goal is to win the Cup, having Gardiner pull this kind of shit now when we're going to be up against the cap while also needing to renegotiate with multiple players in free agency is pretty much the worst timing he could. We can't buy him out, we can't put him on LTIR, we can't even trade him unless we over pay someone to take him off our hands. Its just a raw dog boning by a guy who hasn't been healthy in about 5 years.

We've had him employed for what, 3 years now, and he's been good for only a handful of games. The majority of the rest is littered with mental and physical screw ups and long stretches of being injured or scratched. Not what you want out of a $4m guy who is a toxic asset to try and offload.

Your anger at him is entirely misplaced. You should be angry at the front office who decided to go sign a guy with a substantial known injury risk to a team that doesn't like to buy guys out or trade away problems with assets attached. This front office over prioritizes defense (in my opinion) and yet keeps making some strange decisions about that priority. They are the ones at fault here, not Gardiner.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

How about revisiting older Svech? Jets fans seem pissed that they didn't QO him and reports are his teammates loved him. Would be a cheap option for our 4th line

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I’m currently on medical leave through no fault of my own. I can’t wait to pull some shit and f*** my employer over when I’m well enough to go back to work.

 

[Lempo]

How about revisiting older Svech? Jets fans seem pissed that they didn't QO him and reports are his teammates loved him. Would be a cheap option for our 4th line

I think the issue is, if he doesn't work out can we get rid of him without pissing off Andrei.

 

[Canes]

I think the issue is, if he doesn't work out can we get rid of him without pissing off Andrei.

Plus I don't really think he offers much more than what we already have on the 4th line. He might provide competition for Lorentz but that's about it. Lorentz has more versatility being able to play all 3 forward positions. They'd be better off staying with what they already have signed and using that savings on impact players be it in free agency or at the deadline.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Just for information’s sake, Patrick is only owed $6.9M in actual dollars for the upcoming season. Only $2.9M if Chicago pays his bonus soon.

The thing is, do Kane or Toews really care about winning *this year* enough to disrupt their comfy lives? They both have 3 cups, they both love Chicago, they both have only one year left on their deal, and they both hold the cards.

Unless one of them is desperate to win a cup this year, neither of them have any real incentive to move.

 

[Tryamw]

The thing is, do Kane or Toews really care about winning *this year* enough to disrupt their comfy lives? They both have 3 cups, they both love Chicago, they both have only one year left on their deal, and they both hold the cards.

Unless one of them is desperate to win a cup this year, neither of them have any real incentive to move.

And Even if they want a cup this year move at the deadline and rent space wherever.. for the couple months.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Seravalli said we are expected to give QO to Bear. Not surprising, but the only report I've seen as of yet.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I tend to agree...

While we all aren't likely jumping up and down excited at the uncertainty that Gards wanting to play again brings.....

- the team offered and signed the original deal. We expect the player to hold up their end. Team has to do the same

- the team pretty much forced the issue of surgery last year to move Gards to LTIR as they didn't want the uncertainty of him maybe missing big chunk of time and us scramble to have to replace mid year... Gards did it so we had cap flexibility last season... but now that he did what the team wanted, he wants to play again... and he has a contract that needs to be honored...

-the timing isn't great to get clearance and announce will be ready for camp but because of time of year and nature of injury can't get the buyout now as hasn't been able to play in the summer and show fully recovered and eligible to have all contract resolution steps available to the team. I dont think it was situation of Gards trying to stick it to the team. He just as easily could have waited until the day before training camp and announced his clearance to play and left us with real cap issues and needing to dump a roster player to get compliant.....

If he can’t play right now because he’s not in shape yet after surgery I disagree that the team forced him into LTIR last year.

However, he has a contract and it should be honored.

 

[Chrispy]

The thing is, do Kane or Toews really care about winning *this year* enough to disrupt their comfy lives? They both have 3 cups, they both love Chicago, they both have only one year left on their deal, and they both hold the cards.

Unless one of them is desperate to win a cup this year, neither of them have any real incentive to move.

The question is how "comfy" is playing on this tire fire of a team this year?

It's one thing to have a team that doesn't look great for the coming season. It's another to have a team that's actively tanking for a player you probably won't ever get to play alongside. Mrazek is going to see a ton of pucks, and if they get a bad Mrazek season it's going to go downhill very quickly.

Rather than endure that and the speculation to start the season, I can see one of them looking around for the best deal now. And if one goes, I bet the other goes as well.