Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Jim Bob]

Yes, to some extent a lottery ticket. Perhaps they would like pick maybe.

If they wanted a 5th or 6th rounder for him or a prospect outside the top 15 (and maybe 20) Sabres prospects, it might be worth it.

 

[Fjordy]

If they wanted a 5th or 6th rounder for him or a prospect outside the top 15 (and maybe 20) Sabres prospects, it might be worth it.

Well, it depends on how long Comrie is gone. So far, there seems to be no update on his injury. Although they would hardly have been satisfied with such a low pick, they probably would have asked at least 3rd.

 

[Jim Bob]

Well, it depends on how long Comrie is gone. So far, there seems to be no update on his injury. Although they would hardly have been satisfied with such a low pick, they probably would have asked at least 3rd.

I wouldn't give up a 3rd for a lottery ticket like Stolarz.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I have a hard time caring about goaltending when the rest of the team still has so much development left to go. I'm pretty much fine with whomever is willing to play short term contracts in the current scenario.

 

[Fjordy]

I wouldn't give up a 3rd for a lottery ticket like Stolarz.

Reasonable.

What about Demko?

 

[Jim Bob]

Reasonable.

What about Demko?

I have a feeling the ask on Demko would be sky high regardless of his struggles this season.

 

[Fjordy]

I have a feeling the ask on Demko would be sky high regardless of his struggles this season.

Who knows, not many teams have a place for Demko and not all have assets like we do. The current season so far, in any case, reduces the value.

 

[Jim Bob]

How Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen is handling his latest opportunity

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen went into the first intermission of the Sabres’ win over the San Jose Sharks needing a reset. He had just let in two goals on 13 shots. Both goals beat him high on his glove-hand side. Both were impressive shots, but Luukkonen also had a clean look at each...

theathletic.com

“He brings such a calm,” defenseman Rasmus Dahlin said. “If we do our job he’s going to do his job.”

“You have to support him,” Granato said.

Luukkonen’s audition will continue until Comrie is back healthy. The team is still labeling Comrie as week-to-week with that lower-body injury, so Luukkonen won’t be heading back to Rochester imminently.

I would really, really love it if one of the Sabres podcasts would have Kevin Woodley from InGoal Mag on to talk about the environment that the Sabres goalies are playing behind.

If things are too Anaheim-like, it won't matter too much who the Sabres get as they would need Sorokin-level play to make a difference and they are not trading for a goalie like that.

 

[Bendium]

For those taking a look at goaltending, please go read about the "royal road." It's the new butterfly pad height. And it's changing the way goaltenders are playing the game.

Back in the 90's and early 2000's, pad height and the butterfly was the rage. If a goalie went into the butterfly, chances are the shooter could not score due to pad height. Some insanely high number of goals were scored from the ice to the top of the pad while a goalie was in the butterfly. So all goalies learned the butterfly.

Mobility is now the new thing. Shooters adjust, and instead of trying to power pucks through a giant goalie with giant pads, they are passing east-west and making goalies move. Hence the 'royal road' idea. Goalies are adjusting but some are re-learning the position. And we are seeing it now.

Eg:

- Wide butterflies don't matter as much as both knees touching. The knees touching gives the goalie the natural ability to widen their stance, as well as get back to their skates.
- Goalie sliding is going out of style. Getting back to skates is the new thing.
- Leaning forward and putting weight on toes is now preferred for mobility.
- Downward tracking with the upper body is now the preferred rebound control method

So, what we are seeing are goalies that can adjust to mobility changes are having success. Those that are not are struggling. UPL is going through this transition right now, as a pro goalie. Levi is a mobile goalie, so when he arrives, he may be able to keep up right away. Portillo may not be the once touted prospect, as he's big but he may not have the ideal mobility to play right away.

Just some thoughts as we watch goalies. It's a very similar time to the 1990s, when smaller goalies like Vernon, Richter, JVB, Joseph, etc. all retired and left the game, and were replaced by Kolzig, Snow, etc. By the time the lockout ends, it's hard to find many young goalies coming into the NHL who were not over six foot tall.

I think we will see a bit of that transition now, where height and size are good, but mobility is going to be more and more important.

Very interesting writeup. Not long after we acquired Comrie, I remember a video discussing his style that talked about these exact skills. Specifically, it showed video of how Comrie continuously fights back to his skates instead of staying down because it reduces cross crease saves down from three movements to two and doesn't result in a strong slide that can take the goalie out of position.

So if we assume that Comrie is already adjusted to this newer style, then goaltendeing stats should get alot better as soon as the Sabres adjust their defensive style to play to match. Now if we only had a defensive style to begin with, we could adjust it to fit.

 

[Jim Bob]

Who knows, not many teams have a place for Demko and not all have assets like we do. The current season so far, in any case, reduces the value.

That is wishful thinking. Much like those that had hopes that the Sabres could pry Helley out of Winnipeg over the summer.

Very interesting writeup. Not long after we acquired Comrie, I remember a video discussing his style that talked about these exact skills. Specifically, it showed video of how Comrie continuously fights back to his skates instead of staying down because it reduces cross crease saves down from three movements to two and doesn't result in a strong slide that can take the goalie out of position.

So if we assume that Comrie is already adjusted to this newer style, then goaltendeing stats should get alot better as soon as the Sabres adjust their defensive style to play to match. Now if we only had a defensive style to begin with, we could adjust it to fit.

It's not just about style of play, talent and ability matters as well.

Part of Comrie's struggles have been playing behind a team that gives up way more defensively than the Jets did last year. But, I doubt that is all of it.

I do think Comrie has had challenges adapting to the higher workload as a #1.

 

[Fjordy]

That is wishful thinking. Much like those that had hopes that the Sabres could pry Helley out of Winnipeg over the summer.

Helley was available? If Canucks are going to shake up or rebuild, they could very well trade Demko. It is clear that this is Friedman and he loves talk a lot, but I would not rule out such a scenario. At least we have assets to trade for a proven starter.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I have a hard time caring about goaltending when the rest of the team still has so much development left to go. I'm pretty much fine with whomever is willing to play short term contracts in the current scenario.

I generally agree. As much as I wanted KA to go get Husso, the team defense is the main issue. But even still, acquiring a legit starter is so hard these days that it should probably be a full time job to go get one. Putting all the eggs in the Levi basket is EXTREMELY risky.

 

[Jim Bob]

Helley was available? If Canucks are going to shake up or rebuild, they could very well trade Demko. It is clear that this is Friedman and he loves talk a lot, but I would not rule out such a scenario. At least we have assets to trade for a proven starter.

People were hoping that the Jets were going to blow things up over the summer and put Helley on the trade block. That did not happen.

Given Demko's summer surgery and the fact that he is under contract for 3 years beyond this season, I doubt the Canucks overreact and move him unless they get an offer that they cannot refuse. It's not like they have an amazing goalie prospect waiting in the wings to take over.

 

[Fjordy]

It's not like they have an amazing goalie prospect waiting in the wings to take over.

UPL

 

[Der Jaeger]

Or the NHL coaches remain dinosaurs who only teach the usual shit, even when evidence that something better is staring them in the face. Remember, it took 10-15 years for the butterfly to replace the older stand up goalies. It is taking a similarly long time for goalie coaches to understand that mobility is important. Thus, we're seeing a large increase in goal scoring

Even when teams figure out to play the Hasek/Thomas style, I wouldn't expect another dead puck era as that style is so hard to perfect. But I would expect to see a large separation between the best goalies and the average ones again

I coach goalies at some pretty high level camps, and there's really no way to teach what Hasek and Thomas did. The creativity and mental ability to think of those types of saves, on the fly, would be nearly impossible to teach.
It's sort of like asking an art teacher to teach kids how to paint like Picasso. Hard to replicate the creativity and mind.

Very interesting writeup. Not long after we acquired Comrie, I remember a video discussing his style that talked about these exact skills. Specifically, it showed video of how Comrie continuously fights back to his skates instead of staying down because it reduces cross crease saves down from three movements to two and doesn't result in a strong slide that can take the goalie out of position.

So if we assume that Comrie is already adjusted to this newer style, then goaltendeing stats should get alot better as soon as the Sabres adjust their defensive style to play to match. Now if we only had a defensive style to begin with, we could adjust it to fit.

You're correct in that play style has to match as well. Most of the issues I see from Comrie, UPL, and Anderson have to do with defensive structure. It also doesn't help that the Sabres had injuries on the blue line and had an AHL level defense for a large part of the season.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[BG82]

It needs an answer sooner than Levi.

As much as your 100% right.. I think well ride UPL/Comrie/Anderson through this season and UPL/Comrie next year with Levi in Rochester

UPL needs to show more

 

[Gabrielor]

As much as your 100% right.. I think well ride UPL/Comrie/Anderson through this season and UPL/Comrie next year with Levi in Rochester

UPL needs to show more

That's serious GM failure.

 

[BG82]

That's serious GM failure.

Whose available that would be a significant upgrade and worth basically giving up on UPL?

 

[Der Jaeger]

I the Sabres had trade ammunition to make one trade, and only one trade, and it came to acquiring a goalie or a defenseman/center, I'll take the defenseman/center every time.

Read the royal road concept. Goalies know about it and can train for it, but they actually can't stop the passes. Skaters can.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Our goalies aren’t going to get mistaken for Vezina winners. But I still don't believe they're the main problem. The biggest problem Buffalo has is our bottom 3 defenseman (though Joker has been doing a little better lately), fixing our 3rd line, and the PK. Fitz and Bryson are no where near NHL caliber defenseman right now. Thier probably mediocre AHL defenseman. And the PK is one of the worst I've ever seen. Unless we get another Hasek, we're still going to lose games until that gets fixed.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Anderson
Old man steady, likely to retire after this season. Wonder if he will coach/consult one day ?

Comrie
Still week to week
When back I hope we see improvements, he initially had a good start then dived after video got around on him. Was he carrying a injury, suffered from injuries in front of him ?, not up to higher workload of 1A ? Could of all been part of it. I am more than willing to give him another shot going into the new year.

UPL
Has struggled since call-up, looks slow in the crease and to track the puck at times, will he develop eventually ?

Subban
Short term call-up possibility, not likely unless ravaged by Injuries or UPL is sent down

Portillo
Rights likely to be traded and or leave when his rights are up this summer

Levi
All signs point to him signing after this season with Sabres, a top goalie prospect that The Sabres and fans seem to be banking and all in on. His team has suffered some losses recently. What will the development path, timeline be ?

Leinonen
Tall/Big, Raw, developmental project ?

My main worry along with others is they are stuck going into next season with 2 struggling guys like Comrie & UPL, if Anderson retires. And the rest of the team development path is ahead of the goaltending levels unless Levi jumps into the NHL like Swayman for example and plays well.

 

[dortt]

I coach goalies at some pretty high level camps, and there's really no way to teach what Hasek and Thomas did. The creativity and mental ability to think of those types of saves, on the fly, would be nearly impossible to teach.
It's sort of like asking an art teacher to teach kids how to paint like Picasso. Hard to replicate the creativity and mind.

You can teach elements of that style, however, such as the double pad stack, the emphasis on quick lateral movement, using the blocker to cover the puck, etc

 

[Der Jaeger]

You can teach elements of that style, however, such as the double pad stack, the emphasis on quick lateral movement, using the blocker to cover the puck, etc

Sure, but that's not really the style. The Hasek and Thomas styles were basically stop the puck at all costs, any way you can. That's difficult thing to teach. There's a reason only two goalies in the past 30 years played like them.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Sure, but that's not really the style. The Hasek and Thomas styles were basically stop the puck at all costs, any way you can. That's difficult thing to teach. There's a reason only two goalies in the past 30 years played like them.

Lundqvist sorta had that style too. Although not to the extent they did