All-Purpose Final Fantasy Thread

[Shareefruck]

I would strongly contend that it has nothing to do with tastes changing. If anything, my tastes changing have made me appreciate the less graphically fancy ones more, that I was too impatient for as a kid (like IV), and I didn't grow up with a lot of the ones that I like best now (like VI).

Square Enix legitimately became a different company with different goals, principles, artistic visions, and standards of quality after the merger-- a far less admirable, passionate, principled, and stubborn company that became far more exploitative, money-grubbing, micro-managing, and business-focused. The biggest reason all of this happened should be traced all the way back to Spirits Within being a disastrous flop, which made the merge necessary in the first place.

You can tell by the way that Hironobu Sakaguchi (the primary ideas guy from I-VII, and the reason why a lot of those stubborn traditions/rules in the main series were held onto so dearly in the first place, and the only presence in upper management that you would expect to fight for that kind of thing) clearly had a falling out with the direction that the company was going in right after the merger. We started getting sequels after that, expanded universe bull-****, celebrity gimmicks injected into the games themselves (I ****ing hate that Gackt guy), and the games flat out stopped being nearly as good, often being terrible.

Profit-driven micro-management was also most likely what screwed up Final Fantasy XII and caused Yasumi Matsuno (the brains behind Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, and now FFXII) to have a similar falling out as well. That game was well on its way to being great, but was hijacked so that two younger, more marketable characters were injected as the main protagonists of the story mid-way through development. It's still a pretty decent game, but there's a drop in execution part-way through that can be explained by this, and the two main characters are awful.

Nobuo Uematsu (for my money, the single biggest factor in the franchise being so good) left at around the same time as well.

The three biggest auteurs with arguably the most proven track records/legacies within the company driven out due to creative differences at right around the same time all the bull-**** started happening, even though all three of them continued doing creative things afterwards, often together in collaborations with each other. It's not a coincidence.

It's not you or me or perception or nostalgia or bias or the natural course of circumstances, it's the company itself going to hell.

 

[misterchainsaw]

Of the single player main entries super NES era or later: (Never played X-2 so I'm leaving out the sequels too....thought XIII-2 was about the same quality as XIII for what it's worth).

ALL TIME CLASSICS:
FFVII
FFIV

GREAT RPGS:
FFVI
FFXII
FFIX

FLAWED BUT STILL FUN:
FFV
FFX
FFXIII

WASTE OF MY TIME:
FFVIII
FFXV

I always felt both X and VI were rather overrated while XII and IV were underrated by the general consensus of where these games get placed. Debated leaving FFVII as the only game in the classic tier (as it is the only one in the series that reaches my top 5 JRPG's), but decided to move IV up into it.

Also enjoyed a lot of the other non main-line entries. World of Final Fantasy fits pretty neatly into the "Flawed but still fun" category (which sure as hell beats XV), while Tactics was a masterpiece and yes, I enjoyed Mystic Quest as well.

As for the FFVII remake...I'll be getting it, but I'm trying to keep my expectations low. I think the potential for an absolute disaster of a title is much higher than something that will be regarded as a great game, to be honest.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Just wondering, what was it about X that lost you? I really love X and it's probably my second favorite FF title.

As I'm playing through the FFX HD Re-master right now I cringe at a lot of the dialogue, especially Tidus', but gameplay and story-wise I really love it. Everything after that went way downhill, in my mind, but I can see how FFX could be considered the hinge of the downturn.

I didn't care about the characters, didn't care for the soundtrack, didn't care for the story and the game is very linear.

It's essentially the prototype for XIII. Except it is better. XIII did have a kick ass OST though.

 

[Shareefruck]

Don't know if there's a better document of this, but quick google search found this:
Let's clear up the reason for Squaresoft's "demise" and why Square and Enix merged



Nobuo Uematsu on Sakaguchi leaving and the direction of the company (while he was still with them):

1up: The consumer reaction, how many people went to go see it, wasn't very much, and it became a big financial failure for Square, and despite how much Sakaguchi-san had done for Square, it was this project that kind of led to his eventually leaving the company. Looking back, do you think that was a sad moment, especially considering how much he had done for the company and where he had brought the company? Japanese companies in general seem to be quick to look for a scapegoat whenever something doesn't go right. How did you feel about what happened with Sakaguchi-san?

NU: [Long pause] No matter what happens in the future with the company of SquareEnix and with the individual Sakaguchi, one thing that's not going to change is that he is the father of Final Fantasy. He made the series. And it was a difficult time when he left Square -- at that time it was still Square. As an individual myself, as someone who creates content, not purely for business purposes or making money or gaining profit from something I create as a content creator, it's really hard to say this, but I really don't think Final Fantasy should have been made after Sakaguchi-san left the company. Square the company owns Final Fantasy the property, so it's really up to them what they decide to do. But me personally, that's what I thought when he left the company. And I think at the same time that they started to change the direction of the company. We weren't sure who was in charge of what. It meant a lot of things if we look back at that time when he left and maybe soon after he left. There were a lot of changes, and it was probably a turning point for the company. I don't know if there has been another turning point within SquareEnix the company, but that was definitely a moment that meant a lot of different things.

1UP: Companies like this, entertainment companies, are always in it to make some kind of money because without making money you can't continue to produce and create new entertainment, but would you say that when Sakaguchi left Square, would you equate that to something like when Walt Disney died? Because after Walt Disney died, it changed from Walt Disney Productions to the Walt Disney Company. It acquired more of a corporate mentality as opposed to this -- I don't want to say a family business necessarily -- but it turned it from something that seemed a lot more...it had a humble human element in Walt Disney Productions; you know, there were real people behind it. It wasn't just a faceless corporation. When Walt Disney died, it became the Walt Disney Company and it acquired a corporate feel and maybe it lost something. It lost some of that innocence. And Disney as a corporation just started cranking out annual animated movies to capitalize on the public's thirst for cartoons and family entertainment, and it became much more of a business. Would you say that sort of transformation took place because before there were individual Final Fantasy games, and now they come like five at a time. Final Fantasy XIII times five.

NU: You know, the example of when Walt Disney died and became corporate, now that I've left the company, I can't really say, "Yeah, it's completely changed." It's probably better to ask someone who went through that change with Sakaguchi-san leaving, what they think of the company today, but in my opinion -- and I hope that Sakaguchi-san feels the same way -- is that we did treat each and every Final Fantasy as a birth of something, as a great product that we believed in. All we really wanted to do was to be able to express a very simple belief of friendship or family love or just love in general and if that becomes something that is going to be bought by money and can easily be a base for making a successful business, I just want that to be sold in that manner. Like, this was going to be a boxed package that was going to make money. That's not -- as one of the creators of the games that we worked on -- that wasn't necessarily our purpose. So that's the line that we always have between the business side and the creative side of the business. But all I hope for is that with the people who are still at SquareEnix, I hope that they still have that belief in them, and I wish that they would continue to execute their jobs and projects in the way that we were able to do back then. It's not a MasterCard slogan, but it's priceless. The work is priceless. And I hope that everyone continues to hold that belief. I don't know if this is going to be a good example, but if blood sells, that doesn't mean I think every single game is going to need blood because they think it'll make money. That's just easy to say in words, but it's not really why it should be in the game. There still has to be a very deep and important substance there to create that blood, and if it needs to be there, it needs to be there. But we're not going to make a game just based on blood and violence because it sells.

He left Square within a year of saying this.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I would strongly contend that it has nothing to do with tastes changing. If anything, my tastes changing have made me appreciate the less graphically fancy ones more, that I was too impatient for as a kid (like IV), and I didn't grow up with a lot of the ones that I like best now (like VI).

Square Enix legitimately became a different company with different goals, principles, artistic visions, and standards of quality after the merger-- a far less admirable, passionate, principled, and stubborn company that became far more exploitative, money-grubbing, micro-managing, and business-focused. The biggest reason all of this happened should be traced all the way back to Spirits Within being a disastrous flop, and made the merge necessary in the first place.

You can tell by the way that Hironobu Sakaguchi (the primary ideas guy from I-VII, and the reason why a lot of those stubborn traditions/rules in the main series were held onto so dearly in the first place, and the only presence in upper management that you would expect to fight for that kind of thing) clearly had a falling out with the direction that the company was going in right after the merger. We started getting sequels after that, expanded universe bull-****, celebrity gimmicks injected into the games themselves (I ****ing hate that Gackt guy), and the games flat out stopped being nearly as good, often being terrible.

Profit-driven micro-management was also most likely what screwed up Final Fantasy XII and caused Yasumi Matsuno (the brains behind Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, FF Tactics, and Vagrant Story) to have a similar falling out as well. That game was well on its way to being great, but was hijacked so that two younger, more marketable characters were injected as the main protagonists of the story mid-way through development. It's still a pretty decent game, but there's a drop in execution part-way through that can be explained by this, and the two main characters are awful.

Nobuo Uematsu (for my money, the single biggest factor in the franchise being so good) left at around the same time as well.

The three biggest auteurs with arguably the most proven track records/legacies of the company driven out due to creative differences at right around the same time all the bull-**** started happening, even though all three of them continued doing creative things afterwards, often together in collaborations with each other. It's not a coincidence.

It's not you or me or perception or nostalgia or bias or the natural course of circumstances, it's the company itself going to hell.

All great points, my friend. Very well thought out narrative here. Kudos

Of the single player main entries super NES era or later: (Never played X-2 so I'm leaving out the sequels too....thought XIII-2 was about the same quality as XIII for what it's worth).

ALL TIME CLASSICS:
FFVII
FFIV

GREAT RPGS:
FFVI
FFXII
FFIX

FLAWED BUT STILL FUN:
FFV
FFX
FFXIII

WASTE OF MY TIME:
FFVIII
FFXV

I always felt both X and VI were rather overrated while XII and IV were underrated by the general consensus of where these games get placed. Debated leaving FFVII as the only game in the classic tier (as it is the only one in the series that reaches my top 5 JRPG's), but decided to move IV up into it.

Also enjoyed a lot of the other non main-line entries. World of Final Fantasy fits pretty neatly into the "Flawed but still fun" category (which sure as hell beats XV), while Tactics was a masterpiece and yes, I enjoyed Mystic Quest as well.

As for the FFVII remake...I'll be getting it, but I'm trying to keep my expectations low. I think the potential for an absolute disaster of a title is much higher than something that will be regarded as a great game, to be honest.

I agree with your rankings pretty spot-on, however, I would probably put FFVIII in a new category between "Flawed but fun" and "Waste of my time"... Maybe "flawed but worth one play-through" ? lol I never really considered the game "fun". Even the side games felt like a chore, except for Triple Triad.


I never got into many non main-line games, but I'd love to try Dirge of Cerberus, Vincent was always my favorite character growing up.

I agree about the FFVII remake as well,. I'm trying to keep the excitement and expectation low so I don't disappoint. I 1000% with your last point about the game having more potential to be a disaster... Sadly.

Don't know if there's a better document of this, but quick google search found this:
Let's clear up the reason for Squaresoft's "demise" and why Square and Enix merged



Nobuo Uematsu on Sakaguchi leaving and the direction of the company (while he was still with them):
He left Square within a year of saying this.

Wow... What an incredibly detailed and informative history of Square and Enix.... Thanks a lot for posting this!

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I didn't care about the characters, didn't care for the soundtrack, didn't care for the story and the game is very linear.

It's essentially the prototype for XIII. Except it is better. XIII did have a kick ass OST though.

My complaints are the same, compounded by just how hyped I was for the game. I owned a copy of Final Fantasy X for two months before I had a PS2 to play it on...there was that level of anticipation that you can't replicate once you grow up, I was obsessed with X before I ever played it.

*fast forward to December 27, 2001*

I want to stab half of the characters in this game in the eye. I'm out.

 

[Jovavic]

IV was my first and I think I've owned every release of it in the US lol

 

[Rodgerwilco]

My complaints are the same, compounded by just how hyped I was for the game. I owned a copy of Final Fantasy X for two months before I had a PS2 to play it on...there was that level of anticipation that you can't replicate once you grow up, I was obsessed with X before I ever played it.

*fast forward to December 27, 2001*

I want to stab half of the characters in this game in the eye. I'm out.

That's funny because my story of FFX is exactly the opposite... Just wondering, about how old were you when the game was released?

I was 9 years old standing at the video game department of my local Kmart. I'm looking at the bottom couple of rows of games, not really seeing anything that catches my eye... An older, taller guy comes up and starts looking at games and says something like "Oh sweet!", I ask what he saw and he tells me the new Final Fantasy game is out. My mom introduced me to Final Fantasy so she picked up the game for me and I absolutely fell in love. I didn't even know the game was made or being released and if it weren't for that unknown tall fella who knows how long it would have been before I played it!

 

[Shareefruck]

For some reason, I have two entirely separate and non-connected vivid memories of a) seeing the commercial for FFVII (which was really grandiose and obnoxious) and being like "WTF even IS this?" and never figuring out that it was a videogame (probably a bit too young to process it), and b) playing and loving the game a year or two later without ever realizing that it was the same thing as that commercial, even long after finishing it, and even though I never really forgot the commercial.

Weird.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Don't know if there's a better document of this, but quick google search found this:
Let's clear up the reason for Squaresoft's "demise" and why Square and Enix merged



Nobuo Uematsu on Sakaguchi leaving and the direction of the company (while he was still with them):
He left Square within a year of saying this.

While this is all fine and good, at the end of the day SE is a company. The reason it makes video games is to be profitable. Micromanagement destroys products/companies/visions more than trying to extract extra profitability. We as consumers have a choice, buy or not buy and I can't blame them for trying to milk their most profitable franchises for all they are worth. In an industry where you can spend tens/hundreds of millions on development and never recoup those costs if the game/movie bombs, for your companies sake you need to extract as much as you can from your successes. That is just sound business practice. You owe it to the employees who work their and the families that depend on those paychecks.

As an individual myself, as someone who creates content, not purely for business purposes or making money or gaining profit from something I create as a content creator

So there is a lot more in that entire article than I have time to read on my lunch break but... NU worked there, creating content for them because that was his job. That is what they paid him to do. Although he wants to take a such noble stance on this, it is in fact bullshit. He created content for a paycheck, that content was used by his employer for business purposes and profit. He knew that.

I won't disagree that things have changed drastically since the merger. Both companies were making better products before the merge. All but one of my all time favorite games were done by either Square or Enix, as separate entities. Even going back to SNES with Brainlord or Illusion of Gaia - both from Enix and Chrono Trigger from Square. On the PS1 with Star Ocean 2 coming from Enix/tri-ace and Chrono Cross, FF VII and FFT coming from Square. PS2 with FFX and Kingdom Hearts coming from Square. I know KH says SE but I believe most of the work was done pre-merge. The only one of my all time favorites that was made by SE was Star Ocean 3.

But there is a choice, don't buy the product. Enough people continue to buy that they (Square Enix) believe they are doing something right. I don't believe they will be changing their course anytime soon.

I know that things aren't quite the same as they used to be. Every change in a new game from them feels safe. They don't want to be bold or daring. They need to continue to progress as video games evolve but they are no longer the risk taking company that created some true masterpieces. But, I still get enough enjoyment out of what is produced that I will continue to buy it. I know I won't be blown away by games from them anymore, or really video games in general. The last one to do that was Zelda: BOTW. But trust me, I would love to know that the next FF game that gets released, be it the 7 remake or 16, its going to completely blow me away. Unfortunately, I don't.

 

[Shareefruck]

While this is all fine and good, at the end of the day SE is a company. The reason it makes video games is to be profitable. Micromanagement destroys products/companies/visions more than trying to extract extra profitability. We as consumers have a choice, buy or not buy and I can't blame them for trying to milk their most profitable franchises for all they are worth. In an industry where you can spend tens/hundreds of millions on development and never recoup those costs if the game/movie bombs, for your companies sake you need to extract as much as you can from your successes. That is just sound business practice. You owe it to the employees who work their and the families that depend on those paychecks.



So there is a lot more in that entire article than I have time to read on my lunch break but... NU worked there, creating content for them because that was his job. That is what they paid him to do. Although he wants to take a such noble stance on this, it is in fact bull****. He created content for a paycheck, that content was used by his employer for business purposes and profit. He knew that.

I won't disagree that things have changed drastically since the merger. Both companies were making better products before the merge. All but one of my all time favorite games were done by either Square or Enix, as separate entities. Even going back to SNES with Brainlord or Illusion of Gaia - both from Enix and Chrono Trigger from Square. On the PS1 with Star Ocean 2 coming from Enix/tri-ace and Chrono Cross, FF VII and FFT coming from Square. PS2 with FFX and Kingdom Hearts coming from Square. I know KH says SE but I believe most of the work was done pre-merge. The only one of my all time favorites that was made by SE was Star Ocean 3.

But there is a choice, don't buy the product. Enough people continue to buy that they (Square Enix) believe they are doing something right. I don't believe they will be changing their course anytime soon.

I know that things aren't quite the same as they used to be. Every change in a new game from them feels safe. They don't want to be bold or daring. They need to continue to progress as video games evolve but they are no longer the risk taking company that created some true masterpieces. But, I still get enough enjoyment out of what is produced that I will continue to buy it. I know I won't be blown away by games from them anymore, or really video games in general. The last one to do that was Zelda: BOTW. But trust me, I would love to know that the next FF game that gets released, be it the 7 remake or 16, its going to completely blow me away. Unfortunately, I don't.

I definitely disagree that valuing integrity, creative satisfaction and artistic contribution as much as optimal financial stability is just noble-sounding bull-**** on the part of Nobuo Uematsu. The key word in that quote was "purely". Money will always be a necessary factor, but once you reach a certain level of security and are no longer working just to survive, it ideally shouldn't be the only consideration. After all, he put his money where his mouth is and left the company soon after, probably leaving millions on the table, taking the more difficult and financially unsound path in order to continue doing something he could be proud of. Hironobu Sakaguchi and Yasumi Matsuno did the same when they could have easily just played ball and continued reaping the rewards. You may scoff at the emotionally stubborn/immature financial irresponsibility of that, but personally, I admire it and see it as the right choice.

I agree that we as consumers have a choice, and in no way am I trying to communicate that it isn't perfectly within the company's rights, or that we as consumers are owed anything more (personally, I despise self-congratulatory consumer entitlement), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't express our distaste over these situations or lose respect that we once had for the company as a result of certain decisions.

As for the business itself, sure, there is a line of reasoning behind what they did that makes business sense, no argument there.

However, the following is debatable:

(a) Whether or not creating/keeping jobs must be the highest priority in having a company in the first place (one that outweighs what your company actually does) and whether or not this demands to be valued most by everyone.

(b) Whether or not it's defensible to prioritize creating jobs at the expense of contributing a strong and meaningful product when it's still perfectly possible (if not probable, given the company's track record outside of their foray into big budget filmmaking) to do both.

(c) Whether or not selling out is actually even the smartest long term business strategy to begin with-- They're still making money, but their brand and reputation has suffered immensely in the process. Milking your product for all it's worth to make as much money as possible in the short term may be an effective strategy, but it's arguably a more sustainable strategy for a company (albeit a challenging one that requires a lot of talent that the company already had) to maintain a balance of quality and profitability. Most companies that seem like they'll be profitable forever (like Nintendo, for example) do.

At the end of the day, I agree that Square only have themselves to blame for falling into enough of a financial hole with Spirits Within (which... honestly, what the hell were they thinking?) that the merger, as well as the desperate need to recoup a lot of money in a short amount of time, was necessary. It's an unfortunate circumstance and the company was in survival mode. But I disagree if you're suggesting that that's something that all businesses should strive for in general or have a responsibility to prioritize above all else, even when they aren't in survival mode.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I definitely disagree that valuing integrity, creative satisfaction and artistic contribution as much as optimal financial stability is just noble-sounding bull-**** on the part of Nobuo Uematsu. The key word in that quote was "purely". Money will always be a necessary factor, but once you reach a certain level of security and are no longer working just to survive, it ideally shouldn't be the only consideration. After all, he put his money where his mouth is and left the company soon after, probably leaving millions on the table, taking the more difficult and financially unsound path in order to continue doing something he could be proud of. Hironobu Sakaguchi and Yasumi Matsuno did the same when they could have easily just played ball and continued reaping the rewards. You may scoff at the emotionally stubborn/immature financial irresponsibility of that, but personally, I admire it and see it as the right choice.

I agree that we as consumers have a choice, and in no way am I trying to communicate that it isn't perfectly within the company's rights, or that we as consumers are owed anything more (personally, I despise self-congratulatory consumer entitlement), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't express our distaste over these situations or lose respect that we once had for the company as a result of certain decisions.

As for the business itself, sure, there is a line of reasoning behind what they did that makes business sense, no argument there.

However, the following is debatable:

(a) Whether or not creating/keeping jobs must be the highest priority in having a company in the first place (one that outweighs what your company actually does) and whether or not this demands to be valued most by everyone.

(b) Whether or not it's defensible to prioritize creating jobs at the expense of contributing a strong and meaningful product when it's still perfectly possible (if not probable, given the company's track record outside of their foray into big budget filmmaking) to do both.

(c) Whether or not selling out is actually even the smartest long term business strategy to begin with in the situation that Square was in-- They're still making money, but their brand and reputation has suffered immensely in the process. Milking your product for all it's worth to make as much money as possible in the short term may be an effective strategy, but it's arguably a more sustainable strategy for a company (albeit a challenging one that required a lot of talent that the company already had) to maintain a balance of quality and profitability. Most companies that seem like they'll be profitable forever (like Nintendo, for example) do.

At the end of the day, I agree that Square only have themselves to blame for falling into enough of a financial hole with Spirits Within that the merger, as well as the desperate need to recoup a lot of money in a short amount of time, was necessary. It's an unfortunate circumstance and the company was in survival mode. But I disagree with everything else you're saying.

Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely in love with Uematsu's work and believe it or not, I don't disagree with a large part of what you said in your original post but I do believe we will agree to disagree on NU's comments. He worked for Square for a long time and I guess that is my point. He made compositions for some of the most successful games in the series and was paid for that work, as an employee.If he was a freelance artist then that is a whole different scenario (I don't think he was, was he?).

 

[Shareefruck]

Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely in love with Uematsu's work and believe it or not, I don't disagree with a large part of what you said in your original post but I do believe we will agree to disagree on NU's comments. He worked for Square for a long time and I guess that is my point. He made compositions for some of the most successful games in the series and was paid for that work, as an employee.If he was a freelance artist then that is a whole different scenario (I don't think he was, was he?).

I don't really understand that point, though.

He said:
"As an individual myself, as someone who creates content, not purely for business purposes or making money or gaining profit from something I create as a content creator."

He only states that he is an individual who does not create PURELY for business purposes or profit. In other words, money is only one of many reasons he creates-- there are additional factors motivating him that matter to him as well.

The fact that he worked full time as an employee for Squaresoft for a long time and was paid to do so doesn't undermine that point, as far as I can see. The only thing that would is if you doubt that his other motivations exist.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't really understand your reasoning there.

He said:
"As an individual myself, as someone who creates content, not purely for business purposes or making money or gaining profit from something I create as a content creator."

He only states that he is an individual who does not create PURELY for business purposes or profit. In other words, he contributes for reasons beyond ONLY that-- there are additional factors motivating him.

The fact that he worked for Squaresoft for a long time doesn't undermine that point, as far as I can see.

There are additional factors that motivate most to go into a particular industry or work in a certain role. Again, I am a big fan of his and frankly, I'm not sure why you keep pushing this despite me saying agree to disagree? We aren't going to see eye to eye and that is okay. It is a really, really small thing to disagree on, there are plenty of things we do agree on and not worth derailing an otherwise good thread.

 

[Shareefruck]

There are additional factors that motivate most to go into a particular industry or work in a certain role. Again, I am a big fan of his and frankly, I'm not sure why you keep pushing this despite me saying agree to disagree? We aren't going to see eye to eye and that is okay. It is a really, really small thing to disagree on, there are plenty of things we do agree on and not worth derailing an otherwise good thread.

I'm not disagreeing in order to be difficult, and we can definitely agree to disagree on the larger point about profit vs. integrity (I fully understand that), but I honestly just don't understand the objection to what he said was. I can drop it if you want, but I'm mostly just confused and curious about that.

I agree that there are additional factors that motivate people to work in a certain role, but why is that relevant, or contrary to anything that he's implying?

 

[Papa Francouz]

FFX was my first foray into the series. I was in 6th grade, and the girl I had a crush on was really into the game. She had given everyone in the class a character that fit with what they looked like, and she assigned me Kimahri. So apparently I look like a large, blue, spear-wielding catperson.

Anyway, I had to wait a while before I could play the game, and I found that I absolutely hated it. I think the voice acting turned me off the most, but the linear gameplay and turn-based combat just wasn’t fun for me. I eventually came back to the series by playing VI and VII, and I grew to love those games. I played Crystal Chronicles games on the DS and enjoyed it, played the VII spinoff on PSP and enjoyed it. I loved Tactics Advance. I most recently played XIV with a buddy of mine for a few months, and had some fun doing that. I’m just not enamored with the series enough to stick with it at all times. When it comes to FF characters, the times I see them the most would be in the Kingdom Hearts games.

Suffice it to say, I’m pretty ambivalent towards the FF series. I’m much more of a Dragon Quest person, for whatever reason. I like the occasional FF, but I’ve loved just about every Dragon Quest game I’ve played.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

FFX was my first foray into the series. I was in 6th grade, and the girl I had a crush on was really into the game. She had goven everyone in the class a character that fit with what they looked like, and she assigned me Kimahri. So apparently I look like a large, blue, spear-wielding catperson.

Anyway, I had to wait a while before I could play the game, and I found that I absolutely hated it. I think the voice acting turned me off the most, but the linear gameplay and turn-based combat just wasn’t fun for me. I eventually came back to the series by playin VI and VII, and I grew to love those games. I played Crystal Chronicles games on the DS and enjoyed it, played the VII spinoff on PSP and enjoyed it. I loved Tactics Advance. I most recently played XIV with a buddy of mine for a few months, and had some fun doing that. I’m just not enamored with the series enough to stick with it at all times. When it comes to FF characters, the times I see them the most would be in the Kingdom Hearts games.

Suffice it to say, I’m pretty ambivalent towards the FF series. I’m much more of a Dragon Quest person, for whatever reason. I like the occasional FF, but I’ve loved just about ever Dragon Quest game I’ve played.

So the linear gameplay and turn based combat wasnt fun for you in X, but the same linear stories and turn based in 6 and 7 you loved? Okay.

 

[Shareefruck]

So the linear gameplay and turn based combat wasnt fun for you in X, but the same linear stories and turn based in 6 and 7 you loved? Okay.

Think you might be reading that wrong. Pretty sure he's just saying that he slowly warmed up to those aspects after playing ones that he liked more, not that those aspects were the difference makers that changed his mind.

 

[Papa Francouz]

So the linear gameplay and turn based combat wasnt fun for you in X, but the same linear stories and turn based in 6 and 7 you loved? Okay.

Think you might be reading that wrong. Pretty sure he's just saying that he slowly warmed up to those aspects after playing ones that he liked more, not that those aspects were the difference makers that changed his mind.

Sorry, I was typing that on my phone and didn't proofread it before I posted it. Shareefruck sums up what I meant (thanks for the assist).

Going into X, I had no expectations. The voice acting was bad, and the story wasn't very good, either, in my opinion. It wasn't until I played a FF game that didn't have bad voice acting and had a story that wasn't so unappealing to me before I grew to love what the series could provide. In hindsight, I started with the wrong game. If I had started with VI, for example, I don't doubt I would be a pretty big fan of the series today, as I've enjoyed a decent amount of the FF games I've played. I started the Zelda series by playing Ocarina of Time when I was pretty young, and now it's one of my absolute favorite game series, so I think the same thing could have applied here. It just so happens I started playing FF games later than I started playing Zelda, and the first game I played in the FF series is the equivalent of, say, Skyward Sword.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I didn't realize it until well after the fact, but looking back on it I used to love JRPGs (and the Final Fantasy series in particular) for the open feel of them. For me, the overworld was my open world exploration kick. I loved going all over the place and exploring and going to towns and entering caves and dungeons, it was a gameplay format that I just loved as a kid. In that vein, I initially only kind of liked Chrono Trigger (now my second favorite game of all time) as I viewed the overworld(s) as weak, and really didn't like Earthbound as well due to the lack of an overworld (now a beloved game of mine as well). From that vein, I, IV, VI, VIII, and IX were all fun titles to me, though of the series only VI and IX were masterpieces for me. Just really itched that open world desire for me.

The introduction of actual open world games (albeit without an overworld obviously) with games like Ocarina of Time and GTA3 for me was what began the turn from JRPG to sandbox for what was my favorite genre, and that was further coupled with the overworld essentially being dropped from the Final Fantasy series. I got up to X-2, but honestly haven't been all that interested since. I know it's a dumb holdup, as I'm fully aware that the amount of places to go in modern Final Fantasy games dwarf the older titles in the series, but the format for me of having an overworld was and is something that I really loved, and the loss of it was really the jumping the shark moment for me personally.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'm not disagreeing in order to be difficult, and we can definitely agree to disagree on the larger point about profit vs. integrity (I fully understand that), but I honestly just don't understand the objection to what he said was. I can drop it if you want, but I'm mostly just confused and curious about that.

I agree that there are additional factors that motivate people to work in a certain role, but why is that relevant, or contrary to anything that he's implying?

No worries.

It just seems... I don't know, revisionist? Not even sure if that is the right word here as my brain is fried after a 10 hour day staring at a computer screen. I dunno. He worked for Square for all those years using his creativity to help turn games into masterpieces with the hopes that they would be enormous successes. I read "I create things as a content creator" and translate that to, I create things as an artist. His musical art is what helped launch Final Fantasy into meteoric success as a franchise. He can say he created things as an artist, but in reality if he created something that was art, but shit, it would be rejected. His creation needed to fit the overall scheme and contribute to the end goal, which was to sell games.

Maybe I am looking at it from the wrong perspective. I guess, realizing it now, I am looking at it from how others in the company (mainly his bosses) likely viewed his work. They likely saw things as I see them. Looking up from NU's shoes, he probably really didn't give a shit about the end result. That wasn't his job. He was working to create his musical masterpiece for each final fantasy game.

 

[Shareefruck]

I didn't realize it until well after the fact, but looking back on it I used to love JRPGs (and the Final Fantasy series in particular) for the open feel of them. For me, the overworld was my open world exploration kick. I loved going all over the place and exploring and going to towns and entering caves and dungeons, it was a gameplay format that I just loved as a kid. In that vein, I initially only kind of liked Chrono Trigger (now my second favorite game of all time) as I viewed the overworld(s) as weak, and really didn't like Earthbound as well due to the lack of an overworld (now a beloved game of mine as well). From that vein, I, IV, VI, VIII, and IX were all fun titles to me, though of the series only VI and IX were masterpieces for me. Just really itched that open world desire for me.

The introduction of actual open world games (albeit without an overworld obviously) with games like Ocarina of Time and GTA3 for me was what began the turn from JRPG to sandbox for what was my favorite genre, and that was further coupled with the overworld essentially being dropped from the Final Fantasy series. I got up to X-2, but honestly haven't been all that interested since. I know it's a dumb holdup, as I'm fully aware that the amount of places to go in modern Final Fantasy games dwarf the older titles in the series, but the format for me of having an overworld was and is something that I really loved, and the loss of it was really the jumping the shark moment for me personally.

Agreed.

Overworlds with vague landscapes/locations that symbolize areas and approximate vast distances naturally communicate a greater sense of scale than ultra detailed open-worlds, IMO (even if there's technically less there). I think there's a necessary trade off there. In fact, as far as I can see, the only way for modern open world games to communicate the same sense of scale without sacrificing what makes them open-world to begin with is by making distances so far away that travel would literally take hours (like it does in real life). Open worlds make things feel smaller, not bigger.

I like small, detailed, centralized locations as well (not all games need to have an overworld and feel epic), but personally, I've never been a fan of the trend towards open-world sand-boxes. I don't want moving from town to town to feel seamless/free of transitions and ultra-realistic any more than I want to watch an unedited real-time film that's one long tracking shot. I don't want games to feel like a painstakingly realistic simulation, I want games to feel like an appropriate approximation that allows ideas to be most effectively communicated.

 

[Warden of the North]

I didn't realize it until well after the fact, but looking back on it I used to love JRPGs (and the Final Fantasy series in particular) for the open feel of them. For me, the overworld was my open world exploration kick. I loved going all over the place and exploring and going to towns and entering caves and dungeons, it was a gameplay format that I just loved as a kid. In that vein, I initially only kind of liked Chrono Trigger (now my second favorite game of all time) as I viewed the overworld(s) as weak, and really didn't like Earthbound as well due to the lack of an overworld (now a beloved game of mine as well). From that vein, I, IV, VI, VIII, and IX were all fun titles to me, though of the series only VI and IX were masterpieces for me. Just really itched that open world desire for me.

The introduction of actual open world games (albeit without an overworld obviously) with games like Ocarina of Time and GTA3 for me was what began the turn from JRPG to sandbox for what was my favorite genre, and that was further coupled with the overworld essentially being dropped from the Final Fantasy series. I got up to X-2, but honestly haven't been all that interested since. I know it's a dumb holdup, as I'm fully aware that the amount of places to go in modern Final Fantasy games dwarf the older titles in the series, but the format for me of having an overworld was and is something that I really loved, and the loss of it was really the jumping the shark moment for me personally.

This is an excellent post. I dont like the open world in XV at all. I didnt mind it in XII, but it wasnt really an open world. It was more like non-linear zones, I guess. XIII didnt have one at all that I remember, but that game went totally off the rails and I never could get much more then 10~ hours or so in it.

 

[RandV]

I didn't care about the characters, didn't care for the soundtrack, didn't care for the story and the game is very linear.

It's essentially the prototype for XIII. Except it is better. XIII did have a kick ass OST though.

People are entitled tp their own opinions but i really dont think its fair to associate X with XIII. Most people who dont like X tend to be turned off from the characters, voice acting, or story, but underneath all that its still a fundamentally solid game. Some things could also be forgiven as it was the first title on a new console gen, like FFVII with its chunky 3D graphics.

XIII on the other hand, while there's some venn diagram crossover it has numerous flaws in its own right that has nothing to do with X. XIII's problems run far deeper than simply being 'linear'.

And in my opinion its greatest sin was just how much time and money square invested in it for such a mediocre game. We used to get 3 FF titles per console generation, but XIII tool nearly the entire gen to produce and ended up being the only main title single player FF.

And for people saying they had to change, just look at the Dragon Quest series.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

That's funny because my story of FFX is exactly the opposite... Just wondering, about how old were you when the game was released?

I was 9 years old standing at the video game department of my local Kmart. I'm looking at the bottom couple of rows of games, not really seeing anything that catches my eye... An older, taller guy comes up and starts looking at games and says something like "Oh sweet!", I ask what he saw and he tells me the new Final Fantasy game is out. My mom introduced me to Final Fantasy so she picked up the game for me and I absolutely fell in love. I didn't even know the game was made or being released and if it weren't for that unknown tall fella who knows how long it would have been before I played it!

I got FFX for my 15th birthday. I wasn't enveloped by teenage cynicism at that point yet, though it was the beginning of the end of my 'hardcore gamer' phase...which had to be twice as insufferable.