All Purpose Coronavirus Discussion VIII: mmvvpp Memorial Thread (No Election Talk)

[FlyerNutter]

Yeh, I have actually thought about moving over to the US on a few separate occasions. Even applied for a job in New York a few years back that I did not get.

But I guess I would have been less tentative to apply for more if I had a better perception of the cost of living and work-life balance.

Like right now in the UK - which is not as good as say Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria and some other Euro countries in my eyes in terms of cost of living, disposable income and work-life balance - I pretty much have 35% of my wage per year that is "disposable" after my tax, rent, bills and monthly food bill.

I believe London is the only city in Europe where the cost of living is similar to the big US cities. Places like Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen even are cheaper because of way lower rent and grocery prices.

And while the wages in big US cities are generally (apart from in Norway and Switzerland) more to make up for some of the cost of living, this is not linear across all sectors and careers.

For me the wage increase and lower taxes would almost certainly not make up for the cost of living bump, and in turn I believe I would have less disposable income going off the couple of times I plugged it all into an excel!

Though ofc for some careers and industries the US is better for sure. With higher wage ceilings for similar roles that heavily outweigh the extra cost of living and give more disposable income.

There is a really good documentary about this “where to invade next”. Nothing to do with invasion, just a slightly comedic study of work/life balance in other countries compared to NA.

 

[Appleyard]

Lauda of course.

Yeh, but that was 45 years ago now. Ronnie Peterson in 1978 as well.

 

[Embiid]

Almost one-third of small businesses in New Jersey have have closed: report

 

[Appleyard]

There is a really good documentary about this “where to invade next”. Nothing to do with invasion, just a slightly comedic study of work/life balance in other countries compared to NA.

Europe has a nice set-up in a lot of ways... if you have flexibility and - quite frankly some level of privilege - as there are so many places in a very close vicinity. It is pretty easy to work one place and have family or even live in another.

With large differences in wages and costs of living...

My plan is to basically work in the UK, Scandinavia, Benelux and Switzerland for the next 10 years. Nice wages in general and "okay" to save some money in with a solid standard of living, and jobs in English...

Then have the money to buy a nice house in say - Southern France near the beach - outright with cash up-front, by the time I am 40. As it is a lot cheaper there in terms of property with a far better climate, but still in a country with a pretty good standard of living.

And hopefully by then can have the résumé to kind of pick and choose remote project roles when I want, when I want... with pretty minimal living expense once have a pretty nice spot outright. So can just spend half the year surfing, hiking, cycling etc and watching hockey hahaha.

I mean, I am a massive optimist but still... haha.

 

[Embiid]

Europe has a nice set-up in a lot of ways... if you have flexibility and - quite frankly some level of privilege - as there are so many places in a very close vicinity. It is pretty easy to work one place and have family or even live in another.

With large differences in wages and costs of living...

My plan is to basically work in the UK, Scandinavia, Benelux and Switzerland for the next 10 years. Nice wages in general and "okay" to save some money in with a solid standard of living, and jobs in English...

Then have the money to buy a nice house in say - Southern France near the beach - outright with cash up-front, by the time I am 40. As it is a lot cheaper there in terms of property with a far better climate, but still in a country with a pretty good standard of living.

And hopefully by then can have the résumé to kind of pick and choose remote project roles when I want, when I want... with pretty minimal living expense once have a pretty nice spot outright. So can just spend half the year surfing, hiking, cycling etc and watching hockey hahaha.

I mean, I am a massive optimist but still... haha.

U.S. cost of living is high because we allow a toll booth rentier economy to dominate.

 

[deadhead]

US cost of living is generaly no different than Europe, the big financial/business centers are pricey (NYC, London, Zurich, SF), but second tier cities are quite affordable, and move out to the country and small cities/towns and housing is quite cheap but good jobs are harder to find.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I have no idea what that South Dakota Governor is thinking. Cases on the rise and she insists people should go out and shop like nothing is going on. Bet she is staying inside tho

 

[Embiid]

US cost of living is generaly no different than Europe, the big financial/business centers are pricey (NYC, London, Zurich, SF), but second tier cities are quite affordable, and move out to the country and small cities/towns and housing is quite cheap but good jobs are harder to find.

It's not just about housing and you know that. Childcare, healthcare, education you name it ...this country "subsidizes" the wrong things because it has to prop up the FIRE sector at all costs and it has a regressive tax system that allows corporations to stash money in offshore pirate coves. Americans are heavily indebted...live paycheck to paycheck and hardly have any savings. This is why the pandemic is nailing us hard and you see massive car lines for food. You then have a large segment of the US populace completely brainwashed and frightened by the usual suspects bandying about scary words like "socialism"and "radical left." It would be hilarious if it wasn't so disconcerting and damaging to 90% of people's own well-being in this country.

One in six Americans could go hungry in 2020 as pandemic persists

 

[Lord Defect]

They all deserve whatever they get.

But the main complaint on those who choose to not wear a mask is that they are harming more than themselves. This stance is the most prevalent one regarding Black Friday shoppers that I have seen.

 

[Lord Defect]

One of my best friends - who is European - works in Japan in a diplomatic role that is paid for by her home nation, but in which she is managed by Japanese. (she speaks fluently)

The work culture seems horrific.

Her Grandma died and her Mum got cancer and had to have a serious operation and they basically tried to not let her have any time off to go back to Europe...despite her working way over her paid hours and having holidays available.

Her home country eventually basically intervened to tell them to go and f*** themselves and give her a week off both times. If it had not been for that she would have missed her Grandma's funeral.

As it was she could not be with her when she passed as they basically held up her leave when she put it in and she arrived home a day after her Grandma passed as a result.


The two years have set her up fantastically financially, and the role she has been doing has made her CV look amazing - she will be able to walk into so many roles when she leaves, and she loves Japan...

but as a friend I can see the immense toll that it has put on her from a mental perspective. She is someone who is too amenable at times to others, and works herself super hard even without outside pressure...

but if it were me I cannot imagine not having got myself put in jail for putting my managers head through a window.

And if she were not such a strong person with a good support network... sheesh. Even with a very secure life outside of work she has 100% been in states of effective depression at times over the last few years.

What’s a CV?

 

[Lord Defect]

This is like every job in America these days, too.

For each of my kids, I have my supervisor a heads up that they were due soon.
“ Ok”
When I got the call they were on the way I just rolled out with barely a wave past him. Supe paid me for the whole day.
Find a job that appreciates you as much as you appreciate the paycheck.

 

[Lord Defect]

Worker rights have drastically declined imo over the last 10 years. I’m sure it’s longer than that.

It’s a little weird to me how it’s not made as more of an issue and we somehow idolize guys like Bezos or McMillan but hey.

This is why it’s good to be union in some cases.

 

[Appleyard]

What’s a CV?

Ah, a résumé. We call it a Curriculum Vitae. CV for short.

 

[ajgoal]

What’s a CV?

Curriculum vitae; it's a fancy term for a resume (sort of, there are differences).

 

[Lord Defect]

Ah, a résumé. We call it a Curriculum Vitae. CV for short.

That’s a $10 word

 

[Starat327]

Yeh, I have actually thought about moving over to the US on a few separate occasions. Even applied for a job in New York a few years back that I did not get.

But I guess I would have been less tentative to apply for more if I had a better perception of the cost of living and work-life balance.

Like right now in the UK - which is not as good as say Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria and some other Euro countries in my eyes in terms of cost of living, disposable income and work-life balance - I pretty much have 35% of my wage per year that is "disposable" after my tax, rent, bills and monthly food bill.

I believe London is the only city in Europe where the cost of living is similar to the big US cities. Places like Stockholm, Oslo and Copenhagen even are cheaper because of way lower rent and grocery prices.

And while the wages in big US cities are generally (apart from in Norway and Switzerland) more to make up for some of the cost of living, this is not linear across all sectors and careers.

For me the wage increase and lower taxes would almost certainly not make up for the cost of living bump, and in turn I believe I would have less disposable income going off the couple of times I plugged it all into an excel!

Though ofc for some careers and industries the US is better for sure. With higher wage ceilings for similar roles that heavily outweigh the extra cost of living and give more disposable income.

Yeah, I think jts very much an industry specific job that would be required to make the move. The balance here is just absolutely brutal for 'business' type jobs for the most part. I know a few friends who have decent positions with some good companies but for the most part, "corporate" America is a very rough place for anyone who wants to spend time with family. Paternity leave is a relatively 'new' thing here for guys, but I feel like that's standard at most other countries for example.

I'm not even a "down with capitalism!" Type, Either. But we definitely need some better workforce controls in place here.

 

[Appleyard]

Yeah, I think jts very much an industry specific job that would be required to make the move. The balance here is just absolutely brutal for 'business' type jobs for the most part. I know a few friends who have decent positions with some good companies but for the most part, "corporate" America is a very rough place for anyone who wants to spend time with family. Paternity leave is a relatively 'new' thing here for guys, but I feel like that's standard at most other countries for example.

I'm not even a "down with capitalism!" Type, Either. But we definitely need some better workforce controls in place here.

If I have a kid I might get a job in Estonia beforehand haha.

Their rights for that are amazing.

140 working days maternity.
30 working days paternity.

And some nice extra financial benefits.

 

[Starat327]

If I have a kid I might get a job in Estonia beforehand haha.

Their rights for that are amazing.

140 working days maternity.
30 working days paternity.

And some nice extra financial benefits.

I can take vacation if i have a kid. That counts, right?

 

[ajgoal]

I've worked for corporations my entire career since I got out of the Army, and I have never once had to fight about time off for family issues, deaths (even my then-fiancee's grandmother), vacation, etc. Regardless of how much I've otherwise liked or disliked the particular place I was working, it's never been an issue once. Of course, I also refuse to let work dominate my life. With very few exceptions, I work my 8 hours and go home (or shut off my computer now). I know I'll never get way up on the ladder, but there are other things more important to me. It is funny when a new manager tells me that I won't make upper management if I don't work 60 hours while getting paid for 40 and I tell them "That's fine, I don't want to anyway," and they all give me the exact same, "I don't understand," face.

 

[Appleyard]

I can take vacation if i have a kid. That counts, right?

Haha.

That is crazy.

Estonia actually is even more than 140 days (28 weeks) for maternity.

As the first 28 weeks are full pay.

And then up to 62 weeks of partial pay.

The UK is okay. 26 weeks full pay and then 26 weeks partial maternity. And 2 weeks paternity full pay

 

[Lord Defect]

I can take vacation if i have a kid. That counts, right?

I can take vacations if I want. Regardless of workload.
I can take paternity leave as well, but it comes from my vacation time first, then sick time, then unpaid excused absence, upwards of 3 months.

 

[Lord Defect]

I've worked for corporations my entire career since I got out of the Army, and I have never once had to fight about time off for family issues, deaths (even my then-fiancee's grandmother), vacation, etc. Regardless of how much I've otherwise liked or disliked the particular place I was working, it's never been an issue once. Of course, I also refuse to let work dominate my life. With very few exceptions, I work my 8 hours and go home (or shut off my computer now). I know I'll never get way up on the ladder, but there are other things more important to me. It is funny when a new manager tells me that I won't make upper management if I don't work 60 hours while getting paid for 40 and I tell them "That's fine, I don't want to anyway," and they all give me the exact same, "I don't understand," face.

This is the way. Paid labor not slave labor.

 

[Embiid]

I can take vacations if I want. Regardless of workload.
I can take paternity leave as well, but it comes from my vacation time first, then sick time, then unpaid excused absence, upwards of 3 months.

You work for the Fed?

 

[Lord Defect]

You work for the Fed?

Swing and a miss. It’s not mandated where I work but was adapted

 

[Embiid]

Swing and a miss. It’s not mandated where I work but was adapted

Sounded like Fed worker benefits. Those advantages that were adapted are rare for a larger majority. Consider yourself fortunate.