Prospect Info: All-Purpose 2024 Draft Thread & Celebrini discussion (also the 14th pick and whatever else is draft related)

[Juxtaposer]

That’s an interesting point. You have to imagine that with forwards getting better and better (and defenseman more and more offensive) at some point the scale will tip the other way, defense-wise, and a guy like early Vlasic, who could shut down Crosby, etc., will become invaluable in competing against teams like the Oilers, with generational talent.

My theory is that’s exactly why all these NHL scouts are so high on Silayev. I’ve only seen highlights and watched one full MHL game of him, but I absolutely see the appeal. He’s shockingly mobile for his size, like genuinely shockingly quick and agile. Chara was lumbering, even as a good skater for his size. Silayev is agile. He’s so big and strong and agile and fast that he doesn’t even really need to think at a high level to play excellent defense. Every rush play is just (1) guy approaches Silayev, (2) Silayev pushes him outside into the boards, (3) play is smothered and his partner collects the puck. Silayev is as much of a “one trick pony” as Eiserman, but it’s a helluva trick.

 

[Barrie22]

My theory is that’s exactly why all these NHL scouts are so high on Silayev. I’ve only seen highlights and watched one full MHL game of him, but I absolutely see the appeal. He’s shockingly mobile for his size, like genuinely shockingly quick and agile. Chara was lumbering, even as a good skater for his size. Silayev is agile. He’s so big and strong and agile and fast that he doesn’t even really need to think at a high level to play excellent defense. Every rush play is just (1) guy approaches Silayev, (2) Silayev pushes him outside into the boards, (3) play is smothered and his partner collects the puck. Silayev is as “one trick pony” as Eiserman, but it’s a helluva trick.

Vlasic was also a pretty decent 1 trick pony when he was in his prime.

 

[knu]

My gut tells me there is a run on dmen and we won't see anyone left after 10.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Vlasic was also a pretty decent 1 trick pony when he was in his prime.

Not as much of a one-trick pony as Silayev. Vlasic was pretty good at all aspects of defense and while his muffin shot stopped him from ever being good offensively, he could still move the puck adequately in his prime.

Silayev is ironically someone who would do well with a partner like Karlsson who wants to have the puck on his stick at all times. Actually, Parekh would also be a great partner for him. Silayev would not be able to function well with a partner like Braun.

 

[Barrie22]

My gut tells me there is a run on dmen and we won't see anyone left after 10.

This feels like a draft that so many people will be saying what why a lot in the early part of the draft.

I would not be surprised to see plenty of the top rated be still there and also not surprised to see none left early.

 

[themelkman]

My gut tells me there is a run on dmen and we won't see anyone left after 10.

Thats very normal, teams always overreach for D and we are probably better off risking it on someone like Eiserman

 

[Jargon]

My theory is that’s exactly why all these NHL scouts are so high on Silayev. I’ve only seen highlights and watched one full MHL game of him, but I absolutely see the appeal. He’s shockingly mobile for his size, like genuinely shockingly quick and agile. Chara was lumbering, even as a good skater for his size. Silayev is agile. He’s so big and strong and agile and fast that he doesn’t even really need to think at a high level to play excellent defense. Every rush play is just (1) guy approaches Silayev, (2) Silayev pushes him outside into the boards, (3) play is smothered and his partner collects the puck. Silayev is as much of a “one trick pony” as Eiserman, but it’s a helluva trick.

Yeah, that makes sense. Hopefully Muhk can sorta achieve that level of defense as he grows and matures.

It’s why I have such a soft spot for Buium, he seems like yeah, he has pretty good OFD potential but he also seems like a really, really smart two-way guy that can neutralize other’s teams big guns. I hope we can somehow aggressively get in there to grab him though I’m dubious.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, that makes sense. Hopefully Muhk can sorta achieve that level of defense as he grows and matures.

It’s why I have such a soft spot for Buium, he seems like yeah, he has pretty good OFD potential but he also seems like a really, really smart two-way guy that can neutralize other’s teams big guns. I hope we can somehow aggressively get in there to grab him though I’m dubious.

I like Mukhamadullin a lot and think he can anchor a 2nd pairing, but I just don’t see that level of defensive ability from him.

 

[Jargon]

I like Mukhamadullin a lot and think he can anchor a 2nd pairing, but I just don’t see that level of defensive ability from him.

Yeah, I see him as a higher end 2nd pairing guy, though I’m really happy with how he seems to continuously get better. Hopefully he reaches his highest potential.

But yeah, there’s no question we need to draft that #1 guy.

 

[SoftDumpInTheCorner]

Wow! What a time to be a Sharks fans as we get to talk about our second pick at 14 after already drafting Macklin F%ckin Celebrini!

Ive been in the thought process that this team should not be drafting on needs at this moment in time and just taking the best player available. If you want to say we need defense or a right winger, the appropriate response is what about the goalie position that's been ignored since, forever! We are really only hitting rock bottom in this rebuild and have at least another year of pain. IMO the plan should be acquiring the most picks and prospects you can get, eventually one or two will hit. I see people cringing at getting a potential 40 goal scorer in Eiserman at 14, really? So what if he's a "one trick pony" teams pay for goal scorers in this league. A young 30 goal scorer can net you a top 4 defenseman in a trade all day. I get the excitement at where the Sharks are sitting draft wise but they still have another year of this, plus they have free agency to fill a hole or two. End of the day they should be taking best player available whether it's Yakemchuck or Eiserman and not what's missing in their current depth chart. I'll take holding onto those early second rounders to see what comes out on the other side. Nobody ever said having a strong farm system is a terrible idea.

If the Sharks want to move into the 6-8 spot, #14 and VGK 2025 1st should get it done.

 

[aircobra]

If the Sharks want to move into the 6-8 spot, #14 and VGK 2025 1st should get it done.

Oof, no thanks. I know it's unlikely but that pick isn't lottery protected and I'm not willing to give up a chance of it being a top-10 pick next year. Plus, moving up 6 spots is not worth giving up a first for.

 

[DG93]

Wow! What a time to be a Sharks fans as we get to talk about our second pick at 14 after already drafting Macklin F%ckin Celebrini!

Ive been in the thought process that this team should not be drafting on needs at this moment in time and just taking the best player available. If you want to say we need defense or a right winger, the appropriate response is what about the goalie position that's been ignored since, forever! We are really only hitting rock bottom in this rebuild and have at least another year of pain. IMO the plan should be acquiring the most picks and prospects you can get, eventually one or two will hit. I see people cringing at getting a potential 40 goal scorer in Eiserman at 14, really? So what if he's a "one trick pony" teams pay for goal scorers in this league. A young 30 goal scorer can net you a top 4 defenseman in a trade all day. I get the excitement at where the Sharks are sitting draft wise but they still have another year of this, plus they have free agency to fill a hole or two. End of the day they should be taking best player available whether it's Yakemchuck or Eiserman and not what's missing in their current depth chart. I'll take holding onto those early second rounders to see what comes out on the other side. Nobody ever said having a strong farm system is a terrible idea.

If the Sharks want to move into the 6-8 spot, #14 and VGK 2025 1st should get it done.

I would think that 33+42 get that done to get up to #8. Would love to make that move and draft Buium at #8 followed by a another defenseman with the Sharks top 5 pick in 2025 (Hensler?) to shore up the D prospect pool

 

[Juxtaposer]

I would think that 33+42 get that done to get up to #8. Would love to make that move and draft Buium at #8 followed by an another defenseman with the Sharks top 5 pick in 2025 (Hensler?) to shore up the D prospect pool

I don’t think you can give up both 2nds and 14 to draft one player, even one as good as Buium. One I get, two is not smart.

 

[Erep]

I would think that 33+42 get that done to get up to #8. Would love to make that move and draft Buium at #8 followed by a another defenseman with the Sharks top 5 pick in 2025 (Hensler?) to shore up the D prospect pool

According to the draft value charts 14+33 is enough to get to 8 or 9, already.

 

[DG93]

According to the draft value charts 14+33 is enough to get to 8 or 9, already.

I don’t think you can give up both 2nds and 14 to draft one player, even one as good as Buium. One I get, two is not smart.

I'd be more than happy to do 14+33, just don't know if that is feasible.

 

[Jargon]

Ferraro + 14 to move up and grab Buium.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

Yeah, that makes sense. Hopefully Muhk can sorta achieve that level of defense as he grows and matures.

It’s why I have such a soft spot for Buium, he seems like yeah, he has pretty good OFD potential but he also seems like a really, really smart two-way guy that can neutralize other’s teams big guns. I hope we can somehow aggressively get in there to grab him though I’m dubious.

My thing about Buium is that he likes to play the hero and at 6'0" and he is going to get run over at the NHL level. We are all familiar with EK65 hero's run and how often he got run over by others and led to a lot of short-handed opportunities for the opposing team. Buium is no EK65, but they are both 6'0". EK65 is a superstar at offense. At defense , not so much. Buium doesn't have that great shot that EK65 has. So I don't think we should trade up to get him. If he is still at #14, Yes grab him, but keep this year #33 pick, don't trade up for Buium.

 

[Sendhelplease]

Top 4 d-men in minutes for the top 8:

DAL- Heisknanen (3), Lindell (74), Harley (18), Tanev
COL- Makar (4), Toews (108), Manson, Walker (Girard)
EDM- Bouchard (10), Ekholm (102), Nurse (7), Ceci
VAN- Hughes (7), Hronek (53), Zadorov, Cole (Myers, Soucey)

BOS- McaVoy (15), Lindholm (6), Carlo (37), Lohrie
CAR- Slavin (126), Burns (20), Skjei (28), Orlov (55) (Pesce- 66)
FLA- Ekblad (1), Montour (55), Forsling, Mikkola

Kind of crazy. Though the historical data may speak against, still intrigued by trading up. However, it is interesting to see that good teams aren't so reliant on top picks for d-men, but drafting your number one (with a top 15 pick) is just about imperative, unless your team resides in the Southeast (apparently). Maybe we get our guy next year, maybe we get them at 14 or a trade-up.

Aside from Dallas, each team acquired their #2 d-man, and only three (Dallas, Boston, Edm) drafted their #3.

For Vegas, I appreciate they have a bizarre model (though I think it makes sense when going for it- pay prospects/late 1sts for elite talent), but they only drafted their 6th d-man.

In summary, most important thing to do with 14 is hit on a top half of the lineup player. Not sure on the percentages, but 70% chance top 6 winger is better than a 50% top 4 d-man.

My takeway from this is that the Sharks should just find another Jaccob Slavin in the 4th/5th round. It can't be that hard right???

My gut tells me there is a run on dmen and we won't see anyone left after 10.

If that happens then just take whichever of the top forwards is left.

 

[Sysreq]

I almost kind of wish we didn’t get Celebrini this year. Like he’s a great player, but looking at our pieces, I just don’t think we are there yet. We still need a franchise defenseman.

I think Macklin, Smith and Eklund are eerily comparable to Mathews, Marner and Nylander. We’ve all seen how that goes. GMMG has been focused on defense with his trades but franchise caliber defensemen are almost impossible to get like that. It’s gonna have to come from the draft and that means another bad season.

The last thing you want to do is build around a good, but ultimately flawed defenseman like Darnell Nurse or Morgan Reilly. That is where moving forward puts us.

Even the cluster with Silayev, Parekha and Buium from 6-8OA has some warts if we were to trade up. Yakemchuk too.

I wonder what it would cost to get 4OA from Columbus. Trades almost never happen that high up though. Ugh. We need another tank season.

 

[DG93]

I almost kind of wish we didn’t get Celebrini this year. Like he’s a great player, but looking at our pieces, I just don’t think we are there yet. We still need a franchise defenseman.

I think Macklin, Smith and Eklund are eerily comparable to Mathews, Marner and Nylander. We’ve all seen how that goes. GMMG has been focused on defense with his trades but franchise caliber defensemen are almost impossible to get like that. It’s gonna have to come from the draft and that means another bad season.

The last thing you want to do is build around a good, but ultimately flawed defenseman like Darnell Nurse or Morgan Reilly. That is where moving forward puts us.

Even the cluster with Silayev, Parekha and Buium from 6-8OA has some warts if we were to trade up. Yakemchuk too.

I wonder what it would cost to get 4OA from Columbus. Trades almost never happen that high up though. Ugh. We need another tank season.

I wouldn't be too worried...even if Musty, Celebrini, and Smith all play next season, this team is still going to finish bottom-5 and will have the opportunity to draft Logan Hensler, for example. Getting Celebrini is awesome regardless of anything else, hopefully we have our 1C to build around now.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I almost kind of wish we didn’t get Celebrini this year. Like he’s a great player, but looking at our pieces, I just don’t think we are there yet. We still need a franchise defenseman.

I think Macklin, Smith and Eklund are eerily comparable to Mathews, Marner and Nylander. We’ve all seen how that goes. GMMG has been focused on defense with his trades but franchise caliber defensemen are almost impossible to get like that. It’s gonna have to come from the draft and that means another bad season.

The last thing you want to do is build around a good, but ultimately flawed defenseman like Darnell Nurse or Morgan Reilly. That is where moving forward puts us.

Even the cluster with Silayev, Parekha and Buium from 6-8OA has some warts if we were to trade up. Yakemchuk too.

I wonder what it would cost to get 4OA from Columbus. Trades almost never happen that high up though. Ugh. We need another tank season.

Toronto's problem isn't necessarily that their top pieces are bums (although Marner certainly is), it's that Dubas and Treliving didn't/don't know how to build deep teams and therefore have to rely on their top guns to get the job done, and that's not how teams win Cups.

A guy like Celebrini is almost as perfect as it gets as a player to be a core piece to build around. You take him 100 times out of 100. You can get defense in a later draft (or later in this draft if we're lucky) if need be, but an elite #1C is the hardest piece to get.

The Sharks will be bad again next year; we don't have to worry about not getting another high pick next year.

 

[Jargon]

I almost kind of wish we didn’t get Celebrini this year. Like he’s a great player, but looking at our pieces, I just don’t think we are there yet. We still need a franchise defenseman.

I think Macklin, Smith and Eklund are eerily comparable to Mathews, Marner and Nylander. We’ve all seen how that goes. GMMG has been focused on defense with his trades but franchise caliber defensemen are almost impossible to get like that. It’s gonna have to come from the draft and that means another bad season.

The last thing you want to do is build around a good, but ultimately flawed defenseman like Darnell Nurse or Morgan Reilly. That is where moving forward puts us.

Even the cluster with Silayev, Parekha and Buium from 6-8OA has some warts if we were to trade up. Yakemchuk too.

I wonder what it would cost to get 4OA from Columbus. Trades almost never happen that high up though. Ugh. We need another tank season.

If Celebrini was a franchise defenseman we’d be saying, damn, we still need a franchise 1C…

Chicago was still atrocious last year and they had Bedard. I’m fairly certain, unless Smith and Celebrini not only play but transition so smoothly that they’re putting up like 70 pts each, that we’re finishing bottom 5 (honestly even if they do that, I think we’re finishing bottom 5 - our defense is awful) in the league next season and will have a crack at that 1D.

Let yourself be happy, the Sharks haven’t had a guy like Celebrini before. Hell, we haven’t really had a player like Smith before.

 

[DG93]

Toronto's problem isn't necessarily that their top pieces are bums (although Marner certainly is), it's that Dubas and Treliving didn't/don't know how to build deep teams and therefore have to rely on their top guns to get the job done, and that's not how teams win Cups.

A guy like Celebrini is almost as perfect as it gets as a player to be a core piece to build around. You take him 100 times out of 100. You can get defense in a later draft (or later in this draft if we're lucky) if need be, but an elite #1C is the hardest piece to get.

The Sharks will be bad again next year; we don't have to worry about not getting another high pick next year.

Agreed, and Grier has already acquired a good amount of prospects that will hopefully provide depth around Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, and the 2025 top-3 pick. Between Musty, Mukh, whomever they draft with the Pens and Vegas 1st round picks, Edstrom, Bystedt, Haltunnen, Cagnoni, Thrun, Graf, Lund, and Havelid (+ three 2nd round picks in 2024/2025 at this point), hopefully they can produce a solid bottom-6, maybe a few middle-6 wingers, and 3 bottom-4 defensemen.

We've talked about how Grier has done a great job tearing this team down, dumping a bunch of bad cap between the Hertl/Karlsson contracts, and tanking for Smith and Celebrini (+ 2025 incoming), but now we'll see how his staff does developing the depth around the core.

 

[Erep]

My thing about Buium is that he likes to play the hero and at 6'0" and he is going to get run over at the NHL level. We are all familiar with EK65 hero's run and how often he got run over by others and led to a lot of short-handed opportunities for the opposing team. Buium is no EK65, but they are both 6'0". EK65 is a superstar at offense. At defense , not so much. Buium doesn't have that great shot that EK65 has. So I don't think we should trade up to get him. If he is still at #14, Yes grab him, but keep this year #33 pick, don't trade up for Buium.

To me, this is what makes Buium so special, and why I think you do what you can to get him. Yes, he is doing everything out there, and his team relies on him, but it always seems to me he is doing it within the system. He is not out of control or desperate when he makes these plays. He is pushing play as far as he can based on what is available, and then making the right play, without forcing it.

To me, he isn't playing hero. He is walking the line where him making the play is more likely to succeed because he is the best player, and where others have an easier play. Never loosing sight of his teammates situation and how they can make a play. And at the same time, you can tell all his teammates trust him to make that decision and are ready to become the next option, despite him being the freshman on the team.

 

[Barrie22]

My thing about Buium is that he likes to play the hero and at 6'0" and he is going to get run over at the NHL level. We are all familiar with EK65 hero's run and how often he got run over by others and led to a lot of short-handed opportunities for the opposing team. Buium is no EK65, but they are both 6'0". EK65 is a superstar at offense. At defense , not so much. Buium doesn't have that great shot that EK65 has. So I don't think we should trade up to get him. If he is still at #14, Yes grab him, but keep this year #33 pick, don't trade up for Buium.

He didn't play that way at the world Juniors when he had talent along side of him.

Seems to be the same case for Smith and being away from Boston college where the main gripes were he left the zone early and never tried to help the defense in his own zone. When the system asks for a certain style Smith instantly changes his game to do away with those gripes about his game.