Post-Game Talk: All Good Things…

[onetweasy]

Just like the playoffs last year.

Your right. Why even play the games.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You make WAY much too sense to be on these forums. It absolutely blows my mind how much hate a player of his caliber attracts AMONG HIS OWN FANBASE. Do Bruin fans shit on Pastrnak for instance, who I think is a good comparable for Draisaitl? Are all of his plays microanalyzed so that the odd bad play is blown out of portion while the good plays are overlooked? I doubt it. Draisaitl scores a goal or makes an amazing pass and it's like big whoop. All of his haters crawl back into the woodwoork. I've seen his "haters" even say, "oh, Draisaitl gets his points." Duh! Points are what wins games! And yet, they sure reappear when he makes one giveaway or flies the zone once. More Connor Browns are what these fans deserve.

Not everybody would say that but thanks. My wife thinks it doesn't make sense I spend the degree of time. "what are you doing in there" "you chatting up dames in there" haha

Draisaitl was even leeching off Foegele, Yamamoto, etc, through the years. These comments actually being made. Hopelessly enough some of the writers like Tychkowski (moron) would say that Yamamoto was the reason for Drai or Nuge getting hot. lol, its not even an understanding of what the role of a third is on a line. Translate: They are not driving the results.

 

[mcdingdong]

Watched the whole damn game. If you people can't figure out that this team currently doesn't have an answer for the VGK then I can't help you either.

It feels like groundhog day in here every year. "We had them, just some posts and Hill coming up big from us winning 5-2." "We dominated, just unlucky, it's just one game."

Here's some quotes, are they from this game or last years playoffs?:

- "Just shoot it Connor, c'mon."
- "They won't call another penalty on LV"
- "There goes the shutout ceci started all of that and Oilers just sitting back now and just flinging the puck up to center ice"
- "Oilers getting ridiculously sloppy and making lazy Plays."
- "Adin Hill is spitting out rebounds yet the Oilers refuse to shoot"
- "Oilers having a tough time clearing the zone, Maybe spend some time in theirs rather than throwing the puck up at the scoreboard"
- "Whyyyy won’t anyone just drive to the net..Just drive the net once in awhile and hope for a bounce. It’s better than circling the whole frickin zone and doing nothing."
- "Self induced issues kill this team. Terrible penalties again"
- "You’re playing with Mcdavid and Drai, in the middle of the ice at the hash marks and you make a garbage pass to a covered mcdavid instead of firing that on net. Kane has to shoot that

Imagine watching the game last night (allegedly) and stating the Oilers have no answer for Vegas. Imagine having access to all of the stats and data we do now, coupled with replays of the game readily available, and stating we played a perimeter game and "laid an egg" lmao.
Then imagine treating a 5 game sample size with Hill in net against us as some harbinger of Oilers doom and some inability to ever beat the Knights with Hill in net.

...and then proceeding to list off a bunch of nonsense cherry-picked quotes that address nothing I've stated in our conversation. Thankfully I am a fan of unintentional comedy! I don't foresee anything productive in discussing further, have a good one pal.

 

[K1984]

Draisaitl has numerous great moments almost every game he plays, including last evening. I also appreciate his defensive improvements this season. However, Draisaitl has a bad habit in his game that a bigger, physical team like Vegas exploits. It's when he lets himself be pinned along the boards and then he forces that low percentage pass to the middle. Smaller teams can't knock him off the puck so he has the time to pick them apart, but bigger teams can contain him and force a low percentage play. That's why I liked McLeod on his line. The defense gets pushed back creating more room for Draisaitl to avoid that traffic jam along the boards into which defenders bait him.

The problem with that line is entirely related to the break in and refusal to work the puck low and get there with speed. Kane and Foegele both have skills liabilities that make each of them the primary puck carrier on break in a problem, so it has to be Leon. Problem is Leon isn't great either due to a lot of what you just described, he likes to set up mid/high in the zone and make plays, starting low and working high isn't in his DNA. I think Kane and Foegele could actually be a great winger combo, but with a C that follows the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle and immediately moves it low on entry. Kane and Foegele are both problems on the forecheck and in front of the net, but neither of them ever get there because it's already turned over or Drai is trying to launch a pass cross zone through the slot.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not a player you can win with? How about being third in playoff points-per-game scoring behind um, I don't know, these two guys you may have heard of. Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. But don't you worry, once he's gone, you'll have a team full of Connor Browns. Lots to love about that useless sack of shit that somehow escapes criticism.

Now you've done it. Wait for the hate PM's lol

The Legend of Connor Brown. Maybe theres a Marvel movie up ahead. I won't be seeing it.

 

[EnufAlready]

No its fine. Have a good day.

All the "panties knots" kind of things you state. its just boring flaming. Nobody is interested in that. You had the same reaction to the Skinner posts.

I find it incredible somebody could hate a decade of excellent play by Drai, "never been a fan of him" but defend Skinner from any and all criticism. lol

You have dozens of guys you carve on steady, both past and present but it hurts your feelings that we, two Oiler fans that don't know each, don't share the same opinion on a player. He could be a complete player. He chooses not to be. And thats ok. Many skilled guys, some in the HOF, weren't complete players. He has the skill to be one…

 

[Drivesaitl]

The problem with that line is entirely related to the break in and refusal to work the puck low and get there with speed. Kane and Foegele both have skills liabilities that make each of them the primary puck carrier on break in a problem, so it has to be Leon. Problem is Leon isn't great either due to a lot of what you just described, he likes to set up mid/high in the zone and make plays, starting low and working high isn't in his DNA. I think Kane and Foegele could actually be a great winger combo, but with a C that follows the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principle and immediately moves it low on entry. Kane and Foegele are both problems on the forecheck and in front of the net, but neither of them ever get there because it's already turned over or Drai is trying to launch a pass cross zone through the slot.

See it a bit differently although these are reasonable comments I'm seeing. But Drai gets trapped in spots because the more 200ft game he plays the more energy he expends. Drai was furious at one point with the degree of interference on a play and getting highsticked on the same play. Countless times he's first player back getting puck, as if he's a D, he's breaking up plays all areas. But the degree of work required of Drai all over the ice reduces his ability to own, and have the same energy in Ozone.

Drai is getting us what he's got on any given game. There are nights where the legs and moving that large frame all over with players hanging on him is going to be limited.

Plus, and obvious everybody looks slow and un energetic compared to McD.

You did a great job illustrating what is wrong with the line. Drai is getting caught because his linemates are not good at possessing puck. McLeod is better on there. McLeod also gains zone allowing Drai more time to get set up.

 

[Duke74]

Now you've done it. Wait for the hate PM's lol

The Legend of Connor Brown. Maybe theres a Marvel movie up ahead. I won't be seeing it.

He and the Great Toby Reider would make a duo that puts The Avengers to shame.

 

[ujju2]

Strudwick nailed the offensive issues in Got Yer Back today.

Basically said Vegas' defensive system isn't that complicated, they just play 5 on the die (2 wingers high, C in the middle, D in front of the net) and sit there in it. Meanwhile the Oilers are happy to cycle around them, but generate nothing other than possession time, a turnover, or a grade C toss on the net. Vegas' system is perfect for playing against us because it puts us in our comfort zone (pass happy from the perimeter) and makes us feel good (zone time!), but in reality we aren't much of a threat.

Rather than defaulting to trying to establish cycle on zone entry, I think we need to think more about shooting on zone entry. The way we break in allows whoever we're playing against to set up, throwing the puck on the goalie's pads disrupts that.

Yeah I was listening to that on my commute to work this morning. Strudwick didn't offer ideas on how the Oilers could overcome that though. Shooting on entry as you're suggesting very likely just leads to the "most shots are turnovers" problem again.

 

[Stoneman89]

Speaking of Connor Brown, I am really starting to get tired of the "experiment". I get the PK prowess and reasonably solid game, but at some point, a goal or two would definitely tip the scales once in a while. Like last night. There is just absolutely nothing there game after game after game. He's starting to make the Belanger triangle look decent.

 

[BlackDogg]

If we think we're mad about the team not tying the record for win streak, I bet the players are much more upset. Although they'll say it didn't matter of course.

 

[ujju2]

Speaking of Connor Brown, I am really starting to get tired of the "experiment". I get the PK prowess and reasonably solid game, but at some point, a goal or two would definitely tip the scales once in a while. Like last night. There is just absolutely nothing there game after game after game. He's starting to make the Belanger triangle look decent.

Eh, I'm starting to sound like a broken record, and I admit I wish he'd just freaking score, but I thought he once again had a solid game last night. Especially on that one PK.

 

[DrDrai]

Your right. Why even play the games.

Look, all I’m saying is that they need to adjust, but they don’t have the recipe right now to beat Vegas.

I’m a die hard fan and desperately want them to win a cup, but I’m not blind to the fact that they struggle in certain aspects, having Vegas get knocked out by someone else would be ideal.

 

[brentashton]

He and the Great Toby Reider would make a duo that puts The Avengers to shame.

Deadstick and Iceman.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Draisaitl has numerous great moments almost every game he plays, including last evening. I also appreciate his defensive improvements this season. However, Draisaitl has a bad habit in his game that a bigger, physical team like Vegas exploits. It's when he lets himself be pinned along the boards and then he forces that low percentage pass to the middle. Smaller teams can't knock him off the puck so he has the time to pick them apart, but bigger teams can contain him and force a low percentage play. That's why I liked McLeod on his line. The defense gets pushed back creating more room for Draisaitl to avoid that traffic jam along the boards into which defenders bait him.

AS was already mentioned part of the problem is who the linemates are.

In the scheme of things lets remember that for months we had the top line loaded up with McD, Nuge, Hyman. This left Drai holding mail with whoever was left and with even Mcleod and Foegele being on that rotation a considerable time. Kane is not a premium puck possession guy or passer. He's not ideal with Drai unless an effective third is around. I like the idea of Kane and Drai together if Kane was being better with the puck. He isn't and Kanes play has regressed considerably after what I thought was a solid start. Foegele really isnt a topsix albeit he can do it for awhile and has played well this season. But he typically can only do that for stints and then falls off.

Drai on the whole this season is again holding up a fair bit and he's mostly been the odd guy out having to work with the other players. Man he's even had Connor Brown at times.

Its unfortunate in the whole time that Drai has been here the Oilers haven't found a really matching 2nd for him. Closest we have is Nuge. Drai works best with a speed guy and a cycle guy. Imagine if we had a guy that could do both. We're trying to get Foegele to do things that are above his punching weight and although I really like McLeod he can't be in topsix too long either. Maybe Holloway down the road.

 

[DrDrai]

Imagine watching the game last night (allegedly) and stating the Oilers have no answer for Vegas. Imagine having access to all of the stats and data we do now, coupled with replays of the game readily available, and stating we played a perimeter game and "laid an egg" lmao.
Then imagine treating a 5 game sample size with Hill in net against us as some harbinger of Oilers doom and some inability to ever beat the Knights with Hill in net.

...and then proceeding to list off a bunch of nonsense cherry-picked quotes that address nothing I've stated in our conversation. Thankfully I am a fan of unintentional comedy! I don't foresee anything productive in discussing further, have a good one pal.

Joined in March 2019 is all I need to know as well.

Hill isn’t a 5 game sample size, he’s been amazing since those playoffs. Stats are also really fun because the only one that matters in the end is the score.

Those quotes are from last years playoffs, the are very similar to things people said last night, the correlation between the two shows that the same issues still exist dating back to the playoffs.

IMO that was a must win game for the psyche of the team, not winning, regardless of the effort put forth was laying an egg. They needed to do something different to win that game and they didn’t. To ME that was the single most important game since Game 6 last year.

If the we played them today in the playoffs the “derserve-o-meter” would be 80%+ in favour of the Oilers but they would be down in the series.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Strudwick nailed the offensive issues in Got Yer Back today.

Basically said Vegas' defensive system isn't that complicated, they just play 5 on the die (2 wingers high, C in the middle, D in front of the net) and sit there in it. Meanwhile the Oilers are happy to cycle around them, but generate nothing other than possession time, a turnover, or a grade C toss on the net. Vegas' system is perfect for playing against us because it puts us in our comfort zone (pass happy from the perimeter) and makes us feel good (zone time!), but in reality we aren't much of a threat.

Rather than defaulting to trying to establish cycle on zone entry, I think we need to think more about shooting on zone entry. The way we break in allows whoever we're playing against to set up, throwing the puck on the goalie's pads disrupts that.

Vegas D so easy to figure out being the SC champion and all and still playing a real solid game a season later. Plus to hear a plug like Strudwick talk about offense is a bit much. Gee I wonder what superstars like McDrai would think about a lump like Strudwick telling them they're doing it all wrong and smarten up.. yeah its easy from the couch.

But again if Struds figures Vegas is so easy to unlock then how come no teams are doing this? How come no teams could beat them last post season?

What Vegas are doing in own zone has worked pretty impeccably in hockey for as long as I've watched. What doesn't get stated is that it sure isn't easy picking them apart. With active sticks, great anticipation its not just about the sets Vegas uses. they are active and quick on pucks and sense any opportunity to disposess and break the other way. Vegas attention to detail is what makes them what they are. Vegas play a solid team game with solid coaching. I think Struds is underselling them. Maybe its your description but..

Yeah I was listening to that on my commute to work this morning. Strudwick didn't offer ideas on how the Oilers could overcome that though. Shooting on entry as you're suggesting very likely just leads to the "most shots are turnovers" problem again.

So struds doesn't have any of the answers, only critique. Good to know. heh. I'm sure thats helpful. Personally I can't listen to the guy for 5mins before falling asleep. We all have different analysts we prefer I guess.

 

[K1984]

See it a bit differently although these are reasonable comments I'm seeing. But Drai gets trapped in spots because the more 200ft game he plays the more energy he expends. Drai was furious at one point with the degree of interference on a play and getting highsticked on the same play. Countless times he's first player back getting puck, as if he's a D, he's breaking up plays all areas. But the degree of work required of Drai all over the ice reduces his ability to own, and have the same energy in Ozone.

Drai is getting us what he's got on any given game. There are nights where the legs and moving that large frame all over with players hanging on him is going to be limited.

Plus, and obvious everybody looks slow and un energetic compared to McD.

You did a great job illustrating what is wrong with the line. Drai is getting caught because his linemates are not good at possessing puck. McLeod is better on there. McLeod also gains zone allowing Drai more time to get set up.

To be clear, I don't question Leon's work ethic at all, I just think he needs to change how he's playing on the offensive side of the ice. Less stop and pass, more chip and drive. He is an absolute weapon when he plays in straight lines and charges to the net breaking in, but that just hasn't been happening this season at all really. He's still playing as if he's with McDavid, but he isn't in any sense of the word.

Yeah I was listening to that on my commute to work this morning. Strudwick didn't offer ideas on how the Oilers could overcome that though. Shooting on entry as you're suggesting very likely just leads to the "most shots are turnovers" problem again.

Its above my pay grade to diagnose how to solve it for sure, but for me I want to get their two wingers lower in the zone and off the point and I want their D men to have to turn and scramble at some point rather than sift into position and hold it. We need to get their players in motion to pull them out of position, right now we're just skating into their established structure.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Look, all I’m saying is that they need to adjust, but they don’t have the recipe right now to beat Vegas.

I’m a die hard fan and desperately want them to win a cup, but I’m not blind to the fact that they struggle in certain aspects, having Vegas get knocked out by someone else would be ideal.

Unfortunately probably +80% chance we're going to be facing Vegas in first round. I don't see how it even ends up being anybody else unless Nucks suddenly fall off a cliff. (I wouldn't cry)

Overall I should preface comments with I'm fine with where the Oilers are. Its the recovery of season I expected and the team is too good to count out not being in playoffs. Was saying that in November. Thing is though the win streak has created such illusions about where the team is at and how much work, filling holes is required. Worst fear is that Holland thinks we are pretty much set. I'd almost rather see some wrinkles so that our management don't land on that conclusion.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be clear, I don't question Leon's work ethic at all, I just think he needs to change how he's playing on the offensive side of the ice. Less stop and pass, more chip and drive. He is an absolute weapon when he plays in straight lines and charges to the net breaking in, but that just hasn't been happening this season at all really.



Its above my pay grade to diagnose how to solve it for sure, but for me I want to get their two wingers lower in the zone and off the point and I want their D men to have to turn and scramble at some point rather than sift into position and hold it. We need to get their players in motion to pull them out of position, right now we're just skating into their established structure.

Drai, like Mcd is being held continuously. On one play where he did attempt chip and charge around a defender he was both held and high sticked. None of it called. He was fuming for awhile. McD was upset about the same lack of calls. Thing is Vegas are not a small club. They have guys that can actually hang with Drai, especially if they are literally hanging on.

Drai has lost a step. its never come completely back since the ankle injuries. Some spurts here and there but I suspect with pain its hard to push it continually. Moving his large frame around even at perfect health (and this would be rare by game 50 given his style of play) its hard to push all that weight as much as he does.

I don't think I'm wrong. The uber return of 200ft Drai has also meant that Drai has less jump when he gets to Ozone. He just doesn't have the jets like McD to do that kind of thing every shift. At this point he can pull it off on maybe a handful of rushes a game, and usually does. He's gone Bobby Orr type rush several times this season actually retrieving the puck behind goal line. He's tried to do speed rushes and sometimes has walked in. He just doesn't have it left in him to to be doing that consistently.

in 82 game seasons conservation of energy is paramount. It is moreso because the Oilers have spent so much energy just going on this streak and resurrecting their season. With McDrai as well they didn't get the break everybody else on the team got. ASG is a lot of demands on your time, with media, with events, etc. Did Vegas even send anybody?

 

[tardigrade81]

Its inevitable that Drai will not be able to retain his peak play. He's getting older, and he's not superhuman like McD. Drai has delivered on contract and then some every season. He's been one of the value superstar contracts through the whole stretch. Yeah, some team will pay him big bucks, he's earned it, more than earned it.

Drai didn't suck, he simply didn't cash and he had chances. Moreso he made impeccable plays defensively and several times was like an extra D back in own zone. Later in game he strips a puck from behind that is possibly a GA. He was working tirelessly. Its just that the criticism lands on him. In a tight fiercely contested game neither team had a player that wasn't turning puck over or getting beat on plays. That was the nature of this game.

Theres another comment from somebody else that Drai "cost the Oilers this game" I don't know where thats coming from specifically other than that Drai didn't cash. But nobody other than McD cashed.

I was able to as I aged, but many can’t. It’s all good. drai is still a world beater

 

[WaitingForUser]

Leon stole the puck put it on a tee for Kane to score just before the 2-1 goal....and was robbed by Hill later on to tie the game on a 3-on-2

carving him is an odd choice

Also saved a breakaway chance with a very hard back check but don’t let that fool you apparently he was lazy and uninspired

1 loss in 17 games and the usual suspects are tripping on their bottom lip.

Literally, what does this team need to do for the posters who are always predicting doom and gloom to be happy with the team. 24-4 not good enough? 16 straight wins?

The anxiety around this board sometimes is incredible.

I chalk it up to ptsd from the DOD. Can’t be any other logical reason unless they are not actually fans of the team

 

[bucks_oil]

You know, this one time I'm going to object to this kind of labeling. (I know its just flippant) but I was one of the very few posters on the board who didn't feel the season was over when we were 2-9-1. I was the one saying a coaching reset would address the issues we were having. That the team would turn it around. I maintain that. The club is better, even much better with the present coaching staff. Many games, and including last night I'm in awe of how different our EV play is, how much better it is, how much better we are without puck, with stifling teams attacks.

Still, teams play even harder in playoffs. We have still a lot of problematic spots we need to improve on. Players that aren't going to be likely enough to get on a serious run.

Anyway the game was a slobberknocker. Extremely well played. The two teams were great, its the rare kind of game where both should've could've won and one team did. Disagree with your assessment particularly on 2nd Vegas goal. I saw Hill make several stops harder than that one. I don't think Skinner knew where the post was there and I think he was surprised by the play. We need that kind of stop. Especially when its 1-1 third period and we played so well. We were so good at limiting chances and Vegas even possessing puck. This had all the feel of a playoff game, what a great game to watch, but the team would come away from this feeling down.

I wasn’t referring to your general outlook on the team.

I was referring to your reductionist view that it was about goaltending last night. It absolutely wasn’t.

Hill played great and Skinner played great. The difference was that Hill got away with his errors and Skinner didn’t get away with one, very minor error. I didn’t see any others and there definitely wasn’t one on the second goal…

You think you saw one there, but I don’t think anyone who’s strapped em on themselves would agree. And we are all self critical perfectionists.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

Vegas D so easy to figure out being the SC champion and all and still playing a real solid game a season later. Plus to hear a plug like Strudwick talk about offense is a bit much. Gee I wonder what superstars like McDrai would think about a lump like Strudwick telling them they're doing it all wrong and smarten up.. yeah its easy from the couch.

But again if Struds figures Vegas is so easy to unlock then how come no teams are doing this? How come no teams could beat them last post season?

What Vegas are doing in own zone has worked pretty impeccably in hockey for as long as I've watched. What doesn't get stated is that it sure isn't easy picking them apart. With active sticks, great anticipation its not just about the sets Vegas uses. they are active and quick on pucks and sense any opportunity to disposess and break the other way. Vegas attention to detail is what makes them what they are. Vegas play a solid team game with solid coaching. I think Struds is underselling them. Maybe its your description but..


So struds doesn't have any of the answers, only critique. Good to know. heh. I'm sure thats helpful. Personally I can't listen to the guy for 5mins before falling asleep. We all have different analysts we prefer I guess.

Struds had an NHL career man. He knows more about hockey than you or anyone here, period. So what if he didn’t have an answer for Vegas, name any coach in the league that does.

Although I’m hoping Knoblauch learned from the game last night and figured something out for next time. God I hate Vegas

 

[mkatcherin00]

I am still pissed that these prick Ref did not make two 100% calls that happened right before both Vegas goals. That's another hurdle playing them in the playoffs. Refs will change the standard here and there

Another game where we dominate the play and come out down on pps