All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

[haveandare]

I think Boyle got too much time last night for sure, but I can't help but wonder how much of that had to do with it being the second game of a back-to-back. Also, he had a lot of good scoring chances that he just missed. While it sucks to just miss, getting solid chances is always a plus. A few weeks ago I would have done terrible things to see anyone on NYR get consistent chances. I don't think he's quite the problem he's being made out to be by some, but I do think that Torts has been a little heavy on his minutes lately.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

i guess "Stop giving him 15+ minutes a night" is more reasonable. which is 5+ minutes more than he should be getting.

20 minutes a night is going to happen when you play in all situations, and with this coach, Brian Boyle is an all situations player.

Get used to seeing Boyle 18+ minutes a night as long as he's here and Tortorella is here.

He's averaging under 15 minutes a game this year. This isn't a topic up for debate. You've misjudged how much time he's been getting. Your mistake. But it's just that, a mistake. Just move on from it.

Brian Boyle is averaging under 15 minutes a game this year. Fact.

 

[Ail]

19:18 is actually in fact not 20. But regardless, your first post is *****ing about this 20 minutes stuff happening on a nightly basis ("stop giving him 20 minutes a night" as if it's an on going thing that has been happening a lot and looks like it will continue to happen a lot), which I proved with objective facts (TOI numbers) was incorrect. He has not logged 20 minutes even once this year, your anti-torts hatred clearly has blinded you if you continue to go down this path. Just man up and admit you were mistaken, or don't but just stop with this 20 minutes crap. I'll take your silence as a tacit admission of guilt.

Stop deflecting the point, he gets too much ice time whether it is 15:00 or 20:00 or anything in between, end of story.

I don't hate Torts, I hate some of the decisions he makes.

 

[silverfish]

He's averaging under 15 minutes a game this year. This isn't a topic up for debate. You've misjudged how much time he's been getting. Your mistake. But it's just that, a mistake. Just move on from it.

Brian Boyle is averaging under 15 minutes a game this year. Fact.

True, very nice facts.

In the last 8 games, Boyle has played less than 15 minutes just once. His stock is on the rise, and it's going to be a continuing factor in Rangers games. He's getting PP time, PK time, and a healthy amount of ES time.

You want a fact? Brian ****ing Boyle played 5 more minutes than Rick Nash last night. And that's not an overstatement. Literally, 5 minutes more. Actually, literally 5 minutes and 1 second more. And that's while spending 4 minutes in the penalty box. Sit on that one for a minute.

I understand Nash doesn't PK, and that's going to limit his time on ice in a game where the Rangers take five penalties.

So how about this fact?

Even strength ice time last night. Rick Nash: 10:17. Brian Boyle: 13:10

Actually, Brian Boyle led ALL RANGERS FORWARDS in ES ice time last night!

 

[Richter Scale]

i guess "Stop giving him 15+ minutes a night" is more reasonable. which is 5+ minutes more than he should be getting.

1. 15 minutes is completely reasonable for a 3rd liner (if he's going to stay there).
2. 10 minutes is closer to 4th line minutes (I could be persuaded that Boyle should be bumped to the 4th line; but he's also looked better on the wing in the last few games, so I don't know that I'd personally do that just yet).
3. He hasn't even averaged 15 min per game this season.

Ailuropile is one of many Torts haters who don't like numbers or math. He doesn't do it, and doesn't pay attention to it when it flies in the face of what he believes or is saying (the Gabby trade thread and our discussion of whether Clowe/Brass/Dorsett would be able to hit a combined 40 goals per 82 is what I'm referencing if you're curious Ail).

- Over the whole season, Boyle has averaged just under 14:30 TOI per game, including OT games.

- Over the entire season, Boyle has played more than 17 minutes in a game just 4 times.

- In the ~15 or so games in which the Rangers were behind going into the 3rd and needed offense, Boyle averaged closer to 13:00 TOI.

- In the games in which the Rangers were ahead, and focused on defense, Boyle got more minutes. Huh, wonder why that might be? Perhaps because he plays a defensively responsible game, or because he is good at faceoffs?


Either way, even if he were getting 15 minutes per game, that is actually pretty typical TOI for a normal 3rd liner. And we're not even considering in that # that Boyle eats extra minutes because he is good at faceoffs and gets significant PK time.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Stop deflecting the point, he gets too much ice time whether it is 15:00 or 20:00 or anything in between, end of story.

I don't hate Torts, I hate some of the decisions he makes.

C'mon he's played larger minutes for the past 2 weeks or so, which happen to coincide with the rangers best stretch of play all season.

Am I saying that's attributable to Brian Boyle? Hell no.

But the guy is a top 9 forward on this team, barely, not sure where the minutes are supposed to go. Especially when the team is starting to collect points.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah, 19:18 is SOO far away from 20. An entire shift!

Boyle got 19 minutes plus despite being in the box 4 minutes and playing a key role in our only goal allowed. If Boyle is so great defensively why does he have by far the worst plus/minus on the team at minus 11? It would have been minus 12 if not for the last second empty net goal last night.

 

[silverfish]

Boyle got 19 minutes plus despite being in the box 4 minutes and playing a key role in our only goal allowed. If Boyle is so great defensively why does he have by far the worst plus/minus on the team at minus 11? It would have been minus 12 if not for the last second empty net goal last night.

That's because before the trading deadline, Boyle was only on the ice for FOUR New York Rangers goals this season. He's probably doubled that number since the deadline, which is great for him; but still only 8 of 93 goals this season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

That's because before the trading deadline, Boyle was only on the ice for FOUR New York Rangers goals this season. He's probably doubled that number since the deadline, which is great for him; but still only 8 of 93 goals this season.

Has Boyle been a plus in any single month this season?????????

He has not even been a plus since the trade deadline in a single game.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Boyle got 19 minutes plus despite being in the box 4 minutes and playing a key role in our only goal allowed. If Boyle is so great defensively why does he have by far the worst plus/minus on the team at minus 11? It would have been minus 12 if not for the last second empty net goal last night.

Because plus/minus isn't purely a measure of defensive play. You see, the plus part is from offensive play. So literally half the metric is based upon offense, not defense. And that's before considering things like situational play, you're going to play a defense guy more in tough defensive positions while you're going to limit an offensive guy to more offensive positions.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Because plus/minus isn't purely a measure of defensive play. You see, the plus part is from offensive play. So literally half the metric is based upon offense, not defense. And that's before considering things like situational play, you're going to play a defense guy more in tough defensive positions while you're going to limit an offensive guy to more offensive positions.

Plus/Minus has some flaws for sure but it does in part measure defensive play just like offensive play. Boyle has been on the ice for so many goals against compared to goals for. If he was a minus 3 I would not make a big deal of it but he is a minus 11 on a Rangers team that has scored 3 more even strength goals than we have allowed.

 

[Vidic15*]

True, very nice facts.

In the last 8 games, Boyle has played less than 15 minutes just once. His stock is on the rise, and it's going to be a continuing factor in Rangers games. He's getting PP time, PK time, and a healthy amount of ES time.

You want a fact? Brian ****ing Boyle played 5 more minutes than Rick Nash last night. And that's not an overstatement. Literally, 5 minutes more. Actually, literally 5 minutes and 1 second more. And that's while spending 4 minutes in the penalty box. Sit on that one for a minute.

I understand Nash doesn't PK, and that's going to limit his time on ice in a game where the Rangers take five penalties.

So how about this fact?

Even strength ice time last night. Rick Nash: 10:17. Brian Boyle: 13:10

Actually, Brian Boyle led ALL RANGERS FORWARDS in ES ice time last night!

It was evident and frustrating. He's prone to making too many bonehead plays.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Torts probably reads these boards and plays Boyle and benches Kreider just to show us he is the boss, lol.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Torts probably reads these boards and plays Boyle and benches Kreider just to show us he is the boss, lol.

Yeah, probably not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yeah, probably not.

You are probably right. A guy would have to be a really stubborn control freak to do something like that.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Second night of back to back games...Rangers up by 3 goals most of the game....I have no issues with Boyle playing more than Nash. It's actually quite smart of Torts to get the key guys rest when he can. Also, last night it seemed like the Rangers had a TON of defensive zone faceoffs, and Torts does like having two centers on the ice in the 3rd period for the draws. If the Rangers were losing last night and Boyle played more than Nash you guys would have a point. THIS is nitpicking. We all do it.

On a side note......Boyle has played well of late. At least better than he did earlier in the season. It's nice to see because he works hard. We can't sit here and say he's one of Torts favorites when he is one of the few "vets" that Torts has scratched this season.

 

[Ryan McDonut]

1. 15 minutes is completely reasonable for a 3rd liner (if he's going to stay there).
2. 10 minutes is closer to 4th line minutes (I could be persuaded that Boyle should be bumped to the 4th line; but he's also looked better on the wing in the last few games, so I don't know that I'd personally do that just yet).
3. He hasn't even averaged 15 min per game this season.

Ailuropile is one of many Torts haters who don't like numbers or math. He doesn't do it, and doesn't pay attention to it when it flies in the face of what he believes or is saying (the Gabby trade thread and our discussion of whether Clowe/Brass/Dorsett would be able to hit a combined 40 goals per 82 is what I'm referencing if you're curious Ail).

- Over the whole season, Boyle has averaged just under 14:30 TOI per game, including OT games.

- Over the entire season, Boyle has played more than 17 minutes in a game just 4 times.

- In the ~15 or so games in which the Rangers were behind going into the 3rd and needed offense, Boyle averaged closer to 13:00 TOI.

- In the games in which the Rangers were ahead, and focused on defense, Boyle got more minutes. Huh, wonder why that might be? Perhaps because he plays a defensively responsible game, or because he is good at faceoffs?


Either way, even if he were getting 15 minutes per game, that is actually pretty typical TOI for a normal 3rd liner. And we're not even considering in that # that Boyle eats extra minutes because he is good at faceoffs and gets significant PK time.

yes that is a good point but brian boyle is not a 3rd liner. 5 points in 34 games.that is my problem. if he actually produced like a 3rd liner i wouldn't care about him getting third line minutes. i dont understand people trying to justify this 4th liner getting even 3rd line minutes.

 

[Cake or Death]

Second night of back to back games...Rangers up by 3 goals most of the game....I have no issues with Boyle playing more than Nash. It's actually quite smart of Torts to get the key guys rest when he can. Also, last night it seemed like the Rangers had a TON of defensive zone faceoffs, and Torts does like having two centers on the ice in the 3rd period for the draws. If the Rangers were losing last night and Boyle played more than Nash you guys would have a point. THIS is nitpicking. We all do it.

On a side note......Boyle has played well of late. At least better than he did earlier in the season. It's nice to see because he works hard. We can't sit here and say he's one of Torts favorites when he is one of the few "vets" that Torts has scratched this season.

Good post.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

If Torts was reading this board he'd be saying, "I actually prefer butter".

 

[Ail]

Ailuropile is one of many Torts haters who don't like numbers or math. He doesn't do it, and doesn't pay attention to it when it flies in the face of what he believes or is saying (the Gabby trade thread and our discussion of whether Clowe/Brass/Dorsett would be able to hit a combined 40 goals per 82 is what I'm referencing if you're curious Ail).

No I don't care what you're referencing, especially when your reference is you making assumptions about how many goals people will score next year. That's not math.

Again, I'm not a Torts hater, it's just easy for you Torts lovers to label me that to justify your arguments for why a dufus with no offensive skill deserves 3 minutes of PP time and lead the team in EV TOI last night. Keep reaching.

You are wrong, Boyle gets too much ice time for what he brings, sorry.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No I don't care what you're referencing, especially when your reference is you making assumptions about how many goals people will score next year. That's not math.

Again, I'm not a Torts hater, it's just easy for you Torts lovers to label me that to justify your arguments for why a dufus with no offensive skill deserves 3 minutes of PP time and lead the team in EV TOI last night. Keep reaching.

You are wrong, Boyle gets too much ice time for what he brings, sorry.

The answer is fairly simple. 2nd of a back to back, 3 goal lead, coming off games where his unit was actually successful on the powerplay. You're failing to address it.

 

[Ryan McDonut]

The answer is fairly simple. 2nd of a back to back, 3 goal lead, coming off games where his unit was actually successful on the powerplay. You're failing to address it.

those are fair points, i will give you that. but theres zero reason for him to be getting 3rd line minutes this whole season. ill say it again, he has 5 points in 34 games.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

those are fair points, i will give you that. but theres zero reason for him to be getting 3rd line minutes this whole season. ill say it again, he has 5 points in 34 games.

The only viable options are Miller and Kreider at this point. What other direction are we going in here?

Miller needs AHL time. Kreider needs to learn he needs to compete every shift of every game for more than just a couple of games in a row until he is an NHL regular. If you are trying to say that that these 2 should be in the lineup over Boyle, then you're simply stepping out of the present time, and projecting romanticized versions of prospects.

 

[cd211]

those are fair points, i will give you that. but theres zero reason for him to be getting 3rd line minutes this whole season. ill say it again, he has 5 points in 34 games.

and the guy has had 4 points the last 4 games.. give him a break.. theyres no viable reason for people to keep ******** on him.. we're 3-0-1 this month and have been playing our best of the season.. we're winning and not just winning but putting fourth great effort as a team..

once dorsett is good to go boyle with be 4c and all you guys will be SOOOOO happpy.. theres nooone suitable right now.. kreider miller forget about it.. powe pyatt asham no thanks!! at least boyle has size protects the puck and pretty good defender.. works well with that line..

and he led in ice time bc we killed so many damn penalties and anytime theres a defensive faceoff hes in the game.. which last night we iced the puck so much! since we look penalties we lost momentum..

 

[The Gloaming]

and the guy has had 4 points the last 4 games.. give him a break.. theyres no viable reason for people to keep ******** on him.. we're 3-0-1 this month and have been playing our best of the season.. we're winning and not just winning but putting fourth great effort as a team..

once dorsett is good to go boyle with be 4c and all you guys will be SOOOOO happpy.. theres nooone suitable right now.. kreider miller forget about it.. powe pyatt asham no thanks!! at least boyle has size protects the puck and pretty good defender.. works well with that line..

and he led in ice time bc we killed so many damn penalties and anytime theres a defensive faceoff hes in the game.. which last night we iced the puck so much! since we look penalties we lost momentum..

He led forward in ES time. So his TOI wasn't even because of his PK time. Second, if we ice the puck, you can't make a line change, so I'm not sure what icing the puck has to do with anything here. He has 5 points in 34 games. 5. That's 4th line production. End of story.